Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Icedaisey]

God did not order them to be massacred.

He simply knew what was going to happen and told the prophet what that future event would be.

Not true. God's wrath is explained in Hosea 7.


Hosea 13
English Standard Version
The Lord's Relentless Judgment on Israel
13 When Ephraim spoke, there was trembling;
he was exalted in Israel,
but he incurred guilt through Baal and died.
2 And now they sin more and more,
and make for themselves metal images,
idols skillfully made of their silver,
all of them the work of craftsmen.
It is said of them,
“Those who offer human sacrifice kiss calves!”
3 Therefore they shall be like the morning mist
or like the dew that goes early away,
like the chaff that swirls from the threshing floor
or like smoke from a window.

4 But I am the Lord your God
from the land of Egypt;
you know no God but me,
and besides me there is no savior.
5 It was I who knew you in the wilderness,
in the land of drought;
6 but when they had grazed,[a] they became full,
they were filled, and their heart was lifted up;
therefore they forgot me.
7 So I am to them like a lion;
like a leopard I will lurk beside the way.
8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs;
I will tear open their breast,
and there I will devour them like a lion,
as a wild beast would rip them open.

9 He destroys you, O Israel,
for you are against me, against your helper.
10 Where now is your king, to save you in all your cities?
Where are all your rulers—
those of whom you said,
“Give me a king and princes”?
11 I gave you a king in my anger,
and I took him away in my wrath.

12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
his sin is kept in store.
13 The pangs of childbirth come for him,
but he is an unwise son,
for at the right time he does not present himself
at the opening of the womb.

14 I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol;
I shall redeem them from Death.[c]
O Death, where are your plagues?
O Sheol, where is your sting?
Compassion is hidden from my eyes.

15 Though he may flourish among his brothers,
the east wind, the wind of the Lord, shall come,
rising from the wilderness,
and his fountain shall dry up;
his spring shall be parched;
it shall strip his treasury
of every precious thing.
16 [d] Samaria shall bear her guilt,
because she has rebelled against her God;
they shall fall by the sword;
their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
and their pregnant women ripped open.

Footnotes
Hosea 13:6 Hebrew according to their pasture
Hosea 13:9 Or I will destroy
Hosea 13:14 Or Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from Death?
Hosea 13:16 Ch 14:1 in Hebrew
Hosea 12
Hosea 14

 

[justbyfaith]

Not true. God's wrath is explained in Hosea 7.


Hosea 13
English Standard Version
The Lord's Relentless Judgment on Israel
13 When Ephraim spoke, there was trembling;
he was exalted in Israel,
but he incurred guilt through Baal and died.
2 And now they sin more and more,
and make for themselves metal images,
idols skillfully made of their silver,
all of them the work of craftsmen.
It is said of them,
“Those who offer human sacrifice kiss calves!”
3 Therefore they shall be like the morning mist
or like the dew that goes early away,
like the chaff that swirls from the threshing floor
or like smoke from a window.

4 But I am the Lord your God
from the land of Egypt;
you know no God but me,
and besides me there is no savior.
5 It was I who knew you in the wilderness,
in the land of drought;
6 but when they had grazed,[a] they became full,
they were filled, and their heart was lifted up;
therefore they forgot me.
7 So I am to them like a lion;
like a leopard I will lurk beside the way.
8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs;
I will tear open their breast,
and there I will devour them like a lion,
as a wild beast would rip them open.

9 He destroys you, O Israel,
for you are against me, against your helper.
10 Where now is your king, to save you in all your cities?
Where are all your rulers—
those of whom you said,
“Give me a king and princes”?
11 I gave you a king in my anger,
and I took him away in my wrath.

12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
his sin is kept in store.
13 The pangs of childbirth come for him,
but he is an unwise son,
for at the right time he does not present himself
at the opening of the womb.

14 I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol;
I shall redeem them from Death.[c]
O Death, where are your plagues?
O Sheol, where is your sting?
Compassion is hidden from my eyes.

15 Though he may flourish among his brothers,
the east wind, the wind of the Lord, shall come,
rising from the wilderness,
and his fountain shall dry up;
his spring shall be parched;
it shall strip his treasury
of every precious thing.
16 [d] Samaria shall bear her guilt,
because she has rebelled against her God;
they shall fall by the sword;
their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
and their pregnant women ripped open.

Footnotes
Hosea 13:6 Hebrew according to their pasture
Hosea 13:9 Or I will destroy
Hosea 13:14 Or Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from Death?
Hosea 13:16 Ch 14:1 in Hebrew
Hosea 12
Hosea 14

I stand corrected.

 

[Duckybill]

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

 

[peldom10]

You need to know the truth of the two salvations. The initial experience is to be born again. This is instant, we have nothing to do except receive Christ. It costs nothing. The born again spirit is eternal. That means that it cannot die.

The second salvation is the soul. It helps to think of this as deliverance, as that is the primary meaning of "salvation". (Luke 4:18) There is a great deal involved in this, so I'll keep it to the bare bones. Fundamentally, God seeks the willing cooperation of man's will. The will is of the soul. It's not the spirit. When we come to Christ, we bring all the habits, memories and attitudes of our old way of life with us. Some of those things drop off immediately. Others take decades or longer to resolve. It depends on the priorities that God places on the problems that trouble us.

I knew a man who ate way too much. I asked the Lord about it as I was concerned for His health. The Lord told me that He would deal with the problem a the right time and there were other things that needed fixing first.

I had dinner with this man and his wife often. One evening, I sat down and noticed that he had a much smaller plate than usual. His wife loaded it up. He scored a line with his knife and told her to bin one half of the food. I was shocked. Then I remembered what God said about the food problem.

My friend's will was bound by the love of food. He was amazing in many other ways, but this one still controlled him. Until that evening. His soul experienced one more level of salvation. He passed away (74) a while later. He endured to the end.

I know other believers who would not permit God to deal with their problems. They are pretty much useless in God's service. They are too busy doing self will to do God's will. They will go to heaven, but they will not receive the kingdom rewards that those who allow God to change them will receive.

WOW...can't agree with you on that one. Endure to the end is clear.
While the born again spirit is assigned upon repentance and baptism it can leave you. The Bible says....pray that the Holy Spirit never leaves you. Also, we must endure until the end. Further, allow no man to take your crowns. The Lord's prayer says....forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.... Being born again is the first step of compliance with God's law. Living a righteous life thereafter is key to be awarded eternal salvation upon review by our Lord and Savior after physical death.

Then and ONLY then is it permanent.

 

[justbyfaith]

WOW...can't agree with you on that one. Endure to the end is clear.
While the born again spirit is assigned upon repentance and baptism it can leave you. The Bible says....pray that the Holy Spirit never leaves you. Also, we must endure until the end. Further, allow no man to take your crowns. The Lord's prayer says....forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.... Being born again is the first step of compliance with God's law. Living a righteous life thereafter is key to be awarded eternal salvation upon review by our Lord and Savior after physical death.

Then and ONLY then is it permanent.

See 2 Corinthians 3:17 and Hebrews 13:5.

 

[peldom10]

See 2 Corinthians 3:17 and Hebrews 13:5.

That does not include new sins.

Otherwse the Lord's prayer would not include the day request for forgiveness of trespasses.

 

[peldom10]

...timed out;

which we all do...... unintentionally.

 

[justbyfaith]

That does not include new sins.

Otherwse the Lord's prayer would not include the day request for forgiveness of trespasses.

"I will never leave you nor forsake you" is an absolute promise given to believers regardless of whether or not thay have "new sins".

 

[Duckybill]

"I will never leave you nor forsake you" is an absolute promise given to believers regardless of whether or not thay have "new sins".

Which does not mean we can't forsake Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which does not mean we can't forsake Him.

It is often presented as an argument, when John 10:27-30 is in the discussion, that no one can snatch us out of God's hand; but that nevertheless, we can walk away from Him.

I am certain that if you want to walk away from God, you are certainly able to do so.

However, I believe that Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Psalms 19:9 show us that if you have the fear of the LORD, that this will be a safeguard against your ever walking away, or forsaking Him.

In fact, I would say that the Lord seals you by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) , when you obtain the fear of the LORD (again, Jeremiah 32:38-40, Psalms 19:9).

All verses referenced are communicated as from the kjv.

 

[posthuman]

Which does not mean we can't forsake Him.

2 Timothy 2:13​

If we are faithless, He remains faithful;​

He cannot deny Himself.​

 

[Gardenias]

For myself what I understand about the "book of life" is that upon birth EVERY SOUL is written down.
For God says that all souls are his .Ez.18:4

In researching the book of life I have found God has the POWER to remove our name,it is either ourselves forsaking him or BC of our unrepentant sin that our names are removed!

Starting with what he said to Moses in Ex.32:33 And the Lord said unto Moses Whosoever hath sinned against me,him WILL I BLOT OUT OF MY BOOK.
Here we are removed after accountability for our sins,now we are living in the flesh,for the soul that sins shall surely die.

Life moves on and the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts through hearing the word. We then have a free choice to accept his forgiveness or not! Thus it begins........

Rev.3:5 He that OVERCOMETH, ( life on earth and sinful flesh and Satan)the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life,but I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

For those here that feel they are somehow privileged BC they have accepted the FREE GIFT of salvation or BC they feel as if God has personally chosen them,
I say this PROVIDED you have kept the faith and run the race with patience, obeying the law of love until YOUR LAST BREATHE you will enter into heaven.

I say if your clinging to a man made doctrine by taking the well traveled way,then I'm sorry but today may be your day of salvation. Only God's word is correct and we must search it for ourselves.

Rev.22:19 And if ANY MAN shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE,and out of the holy city,and from the things which are written in this book.

We must be very careful with the word and our souls for Proverbs 14:25 says that a TRUE WITNESS delivereth souls,but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.

Be sure you're walking in good soil so that your roots run DEEP and spread far.

 

[justbyfaith]

It should be clear that our justification and imputation of righteousness is apart from works (Romans 4:5-6); but that with this justification comes regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:3-7); which produces an attitude within us that is conducive to doing good works.

It is not that we maintain our salvation by running the race with patience, and obeying the law of love until our last breath;

But that our salvation maintains our running the race with patience and obeying the law of love until our last breath; if our salvation is genuine.

For we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

In one scenario, the onus is on us to be obedient; whereas with the other scenario, we have been saved by grace and the Lord will maintain our obedience to Him;

Because we have fallen head over heels in love with Him, we will continue to serve Him to the end of our days. And this is not our work but the work of the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

 

[Gardenias]

So you seem to be saying we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for doing anything?

Its all gotta be God's doing or Jesus' doing or the Holy Ghost doing?

I beg to differ but salvation is the first step which is our justification in Christ.
Then comes sanctification through our leaning on the Holy Ghost to be our guide through the word.
Then glorification is the moment we die and Jesus says enter in my child!

We MUST BE INVOLVED with our walk,God will not do it all and then pat you on the head and say " good boy".

You seem to adhere to mans doctrine rather than God's word.

Let the Holy Spirit open your eyes and heart to receive the TRUTH of his word!

 

[TheLearner]

Hebrews 6:4-6
Expanded Bible
4 For it is impossible to ·bring back again to a changed life [L renew again to repentance] those who were once ·in God’s light [enlightened], and ·enjoyed [experienced; L tasted] ·heaven’s gift [or the heavenly gift; C perhaps the gift of salvation], and ·shared in [partook of] the Holy Spirit. 5 They ·found out [L tasted] how good God’s word is, and ·they received [L tasted] the ·powers [miracles] of ·his new world [the coming age/world]. 6 If they have ·fallen away [committed apostasy], it is impossible to ·bring them back to a changed life again [L renew them again to repentance], because they are nailing the Son of God to a cross again and are ·shaming him in front of others [making a public disgrace/exhibition of him].

 

[justbyfaith]

So you seem to be saying we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for doing anything?

Its all gotta be God's doing or Jesus' doing or the Holy Ghost doing?

I beg to differ but salvation is the first step which is our justification in Christ.
Then comes sanctification through our leaning on the Holy Ghost to be our guide through the word.
Then glorification is the moment we die and Jesus says enter in my child!

We MUST BE INVOLVED with our walk,God will not do it all and then pat you on the head and say " good boy".

You seem to adhere to mans doctrine rather than God's word.

Let the Holy Spirit open your eyes and heart to receive the TRUTH of his word!

I would say the same thing to you.

The LORD "causes us" to walk in His statutes and in His judgments (Ezekiel 36:25-27); it is God who "works in us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Salvation itself, is justification. In Romans 8:30, sanctification is not a step between justification and glorification. If a person is justified at the point of death, they will receive a glorified body, regardless of whether or not they have been wholly sanctified.

Sanctification is the sure result of being saved. If someone therefore, were to become saved, and then have no works whatsoever on top of that salvation, they are most assuredly still saved (Ephesians 2:8-9). But if anyone is saved, they have works that God has prepared beforehand for them to do; and because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of the one who is genuinely born again, it is certain that he will walk in those works. But even if he didn't, his salvation would be secure; because salvation is not of works (hypothetically). Nevertheless, to be regenerated and renewed means that a person is inclined towards doing what is right and so works will surely follow redemption in him whose faith is genuine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Salvation is not of works, not hypothetically, but in reality (Ephesians 2:8-9).

What I was referring to as being hypothetical is the concept that a person will be saved even if they have no works to show for their salvation, if their faith is genuine. Because if faith is genuine, and there is an opportunity to do good works, you can be certain that the one who is genuinely born again will walk in those works; because the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5).

However, because salvation is not of works, if faith is genuine, the person who believes is saved even if they have no works to show for their faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4, But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6, Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[peldom10]

See 2 Corinthians 3:17 and Hebrews 13:5.

That does not contradict the point.

 

[justbyfaith]

That does not contradict the point.

You're right....because your point was that we ought to pray that the Holy Spirit will never leave us.

And the verses that I referenced show that the Holy Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us, in answer to such a prayer.