Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
Agreed, but I think we are understanding the Bible differently. I pay close attention to grammar and this is what the passage says:

John 6
39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

The word "believes" here is in the Present Participle Active tense. That means 10 years later you must be believing in God's Son, then, too. We are always currently in the present and must always be believing in Jesus in the present. Jesus didn't mean to believe in Him one time for a few minutes then stop and you're still good to go; the believing must continue, actively, in order to have eternal life.

This actually matters. A lot. I see this is a reoccurring problem for OSAS. They are ignoring some very fine, but critical, details.
Jesus also says that everyone will have moments of doubt, and he did not put a limit on the magnitude of those doubts, meaning those doubts for some people may be profoundly deep and lifelong, yet He will not lose any…
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
Jesus also says that everyone will have moments of doubt, and he did not put a limit on the magnitude of those doubts, meaning those doubts for some people may be profoundly deep and lifelong, yet He will not lose any…
I remember the man who told jesus, I believe, help me with my unbelief

did Jesus say no because he lacked faith? No. he healed anyway..

faith of a mustard seed can move a mountain.. if it can move a mountain, it can save a soul
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
there is a major problem with this view

Jesus said it is unlike their fathers, who ate manna in the desert.. if they did not keep eating, they would die

Unlike that, whoever eats this bread will live forever.

what good is something in its ability to make it so you never hunger and or thirst if you have to keep eating it, or more importantly, if after you eat it, you can start to hunger or thirst again.

remember, Jesus starts this conversation with the following statement

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

the word endures because it never loses its power to give, unlike the food they were seeking which would lose their power. forcing them to continue to eat.

remember, the verb endure is present active also. it does not mean because it is only present it will ever stop enduring.
there is a major problem with this view

Jesus said it is unlike their fathers, who ate manna in the desert.. if they did not keep eating, they would die

Unlike that, whoever eats this bread will live forever.

what good is something in its ability to make it so you never hunger and or thirst if you have to keep eating it, or more importantly, if after you eat it, you can start to hunger or thirst again.

remember, Jesus starts this conversation with the following statement

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

the word endures because it never loses its power to give, unlike the food they were seeking which would lose their power. forcing them to continue to eat.

remember, the verb endure is present active also. it does not mean because it is only present it will ever stop enduring.
There’s no major problems with it.

whether they are the manna or not they still would have died, but it would have allowed them to survive starvation in the desert until they got where they needed to be.

I already showed you that the word “eats” in the passage is literally defined as a kind of eating without eat, hence why they will never be hungry again. Jesus basically told them they’ll have unlimited food, but what He meant, according to the passage is continual belief in Him will lead to eternal life.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Peter did not even Know judas was going to betray jesus, he was as shocked as the rest of them when Jesus told them all one of them would betray him that night.
It doesn’t matter if Peter knew who exactly was going to betray Jesus, but rather that someone was going to betray Jesus and Peter still didn't rescind his comment that they were all believers in Jesus as the Son of God. Even John 6:71, where Judas is called a devil, after Peter said they all believed, there's no record of Peter changing his mind.

why are you fighting this??
No, why are you fighting this? I am showing you the truth.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I never said God forced anyone

just posted what Jesus said

our faith is NOT our work, it is the work of God
Good, God's work didn't make anyone believe, but rather they saw the proof and chose to believe on their own accord. Glad we agree there.

no one will come to faith without God bringing them to faith..

God can work the same in two people. one can say yes, the other can say no

The one who said yes did not do a work, he said yes to Gods work

the one who said no simply rejected the work of God. not only onb the cross. But in their life
You just said God did not force anyone to believe now you're saying God brings people to faith. I think you don't understand that the choice is ultimately down to the individual.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
If continuing belief is requried. no one has eternal life. they will not have eternal life UNTIL they die. because continual belief is required

jesus said the moment one believes, or better yet, the moment one sees and believes, they have eternal life

He never said those who believe and continue to believe until they die.. I do not think we should try to change jesus words. because there is no hope for anyone if we have to continue to do anything,, our hope is in self and our ability, not in God
God apparently disagrees with that. You seem to think it's a forgone conclusion that everyone will commit apostasy. What verse says that?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Peter did not know the heart of Judas. Jesus, however, did. I'll stick with what Jesus said :)
But you aren't sticking with what Jesus said. Jesus nor anyone else ever called Judas Iscariot a non-believer. Judas left everything to be with Jesus, following Him around for three years, received the power to heal, cast out demons, and actually did it too. I think you need to go back and read about this without any pre-tenses.

Matthew 19:29
29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
No it doesn't. Peter didn't know everyone's heart, and he only assumed that all 12 believed. But in 6:64 John included Judas in the phrase about who didn't believe.

6:64 - Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
Peter's opinion trumps your opinion.
Well, I'm glad you are so smart.

Peter knew Judas personally.
And Judas was an opportunist. They are slick enough to trick a lot of people. Including ol' rock-head.

I'm pretty sure he knew what he was talking about and Jesus didn't say he was wrong.
Jesus wasn't critiquing what Peter said. And ol' rock-head was a loose cannon. So my "opinon" trumps yours and Peter's. lol

Peter said "we believe" as in himself and the 12 apostles, Judas included. Facts.
The only fact here is what Peter thought about Judas. iow, his opinion. Judas scammed the whole bunch of them, excluding Jesus, of course.

Your opinion is just naive.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
What I am seeing, and I am not a grammar snob, but the grammar in all of the alleged proof-verses for OSAS actually keep debunking OSAS.
So there are verses that "debunk" what Jesus taught so clearly? That's just calling Jesus a LIAR. Stop it.

A continual belief seems to be required.
It may seem so to you, but Jesus debunked that idiot teaching.

1. When a person BECOMES a believer (saving faith), he/she POSSESSES ETERNAL LIFE. John 5:24
2. Jesus is the Giver of eternal life. John 10:28a
3. Jesus gives eternal life to believers. John 4:24 plus 10:28
4. Recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28b

If one stops believing, it appears all bets are off.
Once again, it appears you are wrong. Go ahead and try to prove any of the 4 points above to be incorrect.

If you will be honest with yourself, you will see that the 4 points are directly supported by the verses attached to the points.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,264
6,590
113
No one is saved because they said a 30 second sinners prayer
This is a huge claim, there have been so many different pastors and preachers who have told people that if they would repeat this prayer with them they would be saved and yet you are saying all them were deceitful, not one person was saved because of that!

Wow, where is your Bible reference?

I thought your claim that unbelievers had their names written in the book of life was bizarre, but this is even bigger!
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I never said God forced anyone

just posted what Jesus said

our faith is NOT our work, it is the work of God
What Jesus actually said what this: "the work of God is to believe". Believing is not a work. Jesus was using the same words the Jews were using.

no one will come to faith without God bringing them to faith.
God created humanity with a conscience to be able to judge right from wrong. And the gsopel is a trust issue, so anyone can believe.

God can work the same in two people. one can say yes, the other can say no
So you think God "works" some to NOT believe???
 
Oct 20, 2022
352
121
43
I'm curious. Where does it say we can be unregenerate and all the work God did in making us reborn in him is step by step undone if we disappoint?

Thanks.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I'm curious. Where does it say we can be unregenerate and all the work God did in making us reborn in him is step by step undone if we disappoint?

Thanks.
Welcome to CC.

here’s a good start, the context continues into the next chapter. This is talking about apostasy.

Hebrews 3:12-14
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.