once saved always saved saved is a doctrine of the devil

[PilgrimPassingThru]

you said : It's their false beliefs that contradict scripture, that why they hate me for speaking the Truth.

That is not the truth, show me one contradiction in the Scripture I have posted.

In all fairness he is answering me according to what was similarly said to me on another thread (about the scriptures) and I was the one who brought that up to InSpiritInTuth (playing around with the irony of it) in respects to another conversation. He was answering me in respects to that very thing and then bringing it back to the words of scripture he is posting also.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

you said : It's their false beliefs that contradict scripture, that why they hate me for speaking the Truth.

That is not the truth, show me one contradiction in the Scripture I have posted.

How bout this one....

Originally Posted by valiant

You fail to point out that the servants of sin were the scribes and Pharisees, and it is they who do not 'abide for ever' (and are not saved).

If you tell me you love God with heart, soul, mind and strength all the timeI don't believe you. It's you whose lying. So you are permanently gripped by the power of sin

You said the whosoever that commits sin is a servant of sin Jesus referred to in that verse only applies to the scribes and Pharisees. This is not true. Now I will also give you an opportunity like my other accusers to prove also what you said above, that I do not love God with my heart, soul, mind, and strength; or that I even said what you suggested in the above underlined.

And if I never said what you suggested, then how can I be lying (as you also suggest) about something I never said. lol

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I did not say you said it, I said you implied it.

So once again, you have no actual proof of me not telling the truth. It is something rather that you just imagined that I might be implying. Nice. LOL

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

2 Timothy 3:1-3 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Heres a few

As John says,

1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

For the scripture says,

all have sinned

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God;

And if we say ,

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

As Paul said
(Romans 7:17) sin that dwelleth in me
(even as there is no good thing in the flesh)

We are also not in the flesh (Romans 8:9)
but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of God is in us


In view of the grace we are under, (Romans 6:14)
it says, sin shall not have dominion over us

Its John who says,

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (see aslo John 8:34)

Even as John says,

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And Peter who says,

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace,
who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after that ye have suffered a while , make you perfect,
stablish, strengthen, settle you.

As He said earlier,

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

You can also contrast ceasing from sin
and that which cannot cease from sin

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery,
and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls:
an heart they have exercised
with covetous practices; cursed children:

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother. (John 8:44)

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them,
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin
is the servant of sin.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked,
that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin,
ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20 For whenye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

 

[Blain]

He said my statement was wrong, so I gave him the opportunity to prove it, which he did not, but rather avoided it with a fluffy speech. I tend to stay away from arguments with those who make accusations but without proving such accusations as true. Clearly what he claimed was wrong in my statement was not based on any proof he had, but rather just his own opinionated hatred for the one who said it.

By the way, why is it when I speak out against ongoing sin, and also the doctrine of truly being set free from sin (as Jesus also said), I am then attacked personally by many false accusations? Think about that, and also think about what spirit could be behind that motivation to personally attack a poster and bring false accusations.

If you guys don't believe the scriptures I post that's your choice. But there is no need to bring false accusation against me or others who do believe them, and also speak them.

Hatred? LoL I have to be honest i was reading your post here and when I saw that I couldn't help but literally laugh out loud. I am not capable of hatred I am unable to stay mad at someone for more than a day let alone hate them. I am not sure exactly what (proof) you suggest I give you, any scriptures I give you we both know will not convince you we have been on that merry go round several times before.

And to that point it was never my intention to prove anything that is not why I am here, my only intent is to help and to build others in their faith in their relationship with God in who they are as people. Which is why all I ask is that you ponder those questions to search heart honestly and to seek the answers. I am hoping that one day you can answer me these questions, I want to see your blade change into a blade of hope a blade that lights a fire in others hearts a blade that protects and shines.

Everyone bears a blade of some kind, the blade is the representation of a persons heart the blade is their words their actions their hearts deepest thoughts. what the blade does and how it affects others is up to the wielder

 

[Grace777x70]

We must always quote scripture in CONTEXT.....Hebrews is talking to people that knew about Jesus and His sacrifice but were going back to the temple for sacrifices for their sins.....here is a short 3 min video that explains Hebrews 6 out in "context"..


[video=youtube;FZ4RjEqfXOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4RjEqfXOg[/video]

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a longer version ..about 22 minutes for Hebrews 6.....if you take a scripture out of context...that "text" will "con" you....


[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here is a longer version ..about 22 minutes for Hebrews 6.....if you take a scripture out of context...that "text" will "con" you....


[video=youtube;ymCgHPu7Nz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCgHPu7Nz4[/video]

So will Ryan Rufus. Conman extraordinaire IMO.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I'm thrilled to see that the debate that began about 400 years ago in the 17th Century has finally been resolved in the last 3+ years(thread started in 2012) here at Christianchat!

 

[Armini3]

hmmm don't see it referring to only jews as you claim what I do see is Hebrews ch10-vs26 For if (WE) that's including the writer of Hebrews referring to all true (believers) verse26 who willfully sin after (WE) (you skipped that two letter word) cont. have received the knowledge (OF) the truth (not the knowledge about the truth there's a big difference i.e. of reverting back to old sacrificial ways) is not referred to here at all.

 

[Armini3]

an I am not so thrilled that a lie told to eve thousands of years ago that if she ate of that tree that she would surly not die but be just like God oops she believed him and shared his view and they died and now another lie what a coincidence from the same serpent is saying once saved always saved...stay tuned for the conclusion of this doctrinal program its a real nail biter...

 

[Blain]

I'm thrilled to see that the debate that began about 400 years ago in the 17th Century has finally been resolved in the last 3+ years(thread started in 2012) here at Christianchat!

View attachment 145627

Well even this thread has had it's purpose being brought up, although my reason for being in changed.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Heres a few

As John says,

1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

For the scripture says,

all have sinned

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God;

And if we say ,

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin,
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

As Paul said
(Romans 7:17) sin that dwelleth in me
(even as there is no good thing in the flesh)

We are also not in the flesh (Romans 8:9)
but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of God is in us


In view of the grace we are under, (Romans 6:14)
it says, sin shall not have dominion over us

Its John who says,

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (see aslo John 8:34)

Even as John says,

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

And Peter who says,

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace,
who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after that ye have suffered a while , make you perfect,
stablish, strengthen, settle you.

As He said earlier,

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

You can also contrast ceasing from sin
and that which cannot cease from sin

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery,
and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls:
an heart they have exercised
with covetous practices; cursed children:

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest,
and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother. (John 8:44)

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous,
even as he is righteous.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them,
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin
is the servant of sin.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked,
that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin,
ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20 For whenye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

And that is looking at the whole picture, which also gives us the whole truth of what is being preached. We were all past tense sinners and servants of sin, all being under the law of sin and death. But as we see in the above the past tense servant of sin can be set free from the bondage of sin in the present tense, and has now become a servant of righteousness no longer being a present tense servant of sin.

And the Truth shall make you free.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

And that is looking at the whole picture, which also gives us the whole truth of what is being preached. We were all past tense sinners and servants of sin, all being under the law of sin and death. But as we see in the above the past tense servant of sin can be set free from the bondage of sin in the present tense, and has now become a servant of righteousness no longer being a present tense servant of sin.

And the Truth shall make you free.

Exactly, Christ died for sinners (all have sinned) and they being set free by Christ.

Sin shall not have dominion over us under grace, but there are some who seem to believe sin will always have dominion over us under grace.

Its the way its worded throughout and you can see the progression while being able to aknowledge the verses instead of doing one of those pit the scriptures to knock the other one out.

All can be true without having to do that.

 

[Grace777x70]

it's in the "knowing " that our old man is dead..and that we are alive to God...knowing that makes us free from sin. It's not the Truth that sets us free..it's in "knowing " the Truth that sets us free..

Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Grace is not freedom "to" sin..it's freedom "from" sin!

 

[PeterJens]

The problem with once saved always saved, is someone can loose their faith, deny everything and yet still be in the Kingdom.

The whole reason for the Kingdom, its foundation is fellowship with God. The consequence of the lack of communion with God is sin, getting lost in ones own emotions and motivations which eat up a person whole and turn their heart cold.

Now to believe those who rebel against Christ are still in communion is absurd, a contradiction of what is happening.
What makes sense is faith is the cornerstone upon which everything else hangs. If you no longer believe in Christ then there is no washing of sin or forgiveness, or fellowship with God or walking in the Kingdom.

Jesus's promises are resting on belief. "Everyone who believes in Him, may not perish but have eternal life."

The gnostic view is once you are on board you have a new holy spirit, which is saved no matter what. The problem is justification for this doctrine relies on verses talking about the Holy Spirit at work within us, and being a new creation, which is talking about the total effect on heart, soul and mind of being born again.

I would suggest therefore it points much more strongly to the idea we are saved through faith than saved because we are born again with a new perfect spirit. Those who do not want to be washed clean and purified prefer the bam cleansing, a once off affair, rather than the walk of sanctification. I mean it is a lot simpler just to rest until the conviction comes upon you rather than obeying and following.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )

Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like no doing the "biggie sins"....or maybe..no smoking..no drinking..not going to church..not reading your bible every day..not praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says ...no doing "what I don't do.."..etc

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit / our inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness in Christ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

 

[Grace777x70]

You have to read the context of the book of Hebrews and not take an isolated set of scriptures out of it's context in the book. These were not written in chapters and verses. The only sin talked about in Hebrews prior to chapter 10 was the sin of unbelief that the Jews had and thus it stopped them from entering the promised land...Jesus is our Promised Land.

Here I will give you an example....

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

We have all sinned and so we are all blotted out of the Lord's book...looks very bad for us....this is God's word so it must be true. He is God and He changes not... ( by the way we all have wilfully sinned as it says in Heb 10 too...so..it looks bad for us there too...)

See what I mean?...read the book of Hebrews and listen to the videos on Hebrews 10 in this thread and you will see what the context is ....you will see that it is not in line with what some religious teachings have said in the past.....it'll bless you.....

hmmm don't see it referring to only jews as you claim what I do see is Hebrews ch10-vs26 For if (WE) that's including the writer of Hebrews referring to all true (believers) verse26 who willfully sin after (WE) (you skipped that two letter word) cont. have received the knowledge (OF) the truth (not the knowledge about the truth there's a big difference i.e. of reverting back to old sacrificial ways) is not referred to here at all.