Once saved, always saved

[garee]

Regarding this phrase " … once saved, always saved" is never explained in reasonable English self thinking but instead we get dozens of biblical quotes, word salads, loose associations etc.

Now we have a discussion about hating your brother, sister or cousin and whether it's sinful, jeopardizing one's salvation or a believer can never hate some one.

Well if I go by the phrase…"once saved, always saved" good grief, why worry about whom you hate, despise, love etc?

You are saved…ain't cha?

I think it has more to do on how God uses the words he designed by which we can know Him after . Words have meaning designed into them by the designer, Christ.

To love by blessing or hate by withholding a blesses is all we do have. Finding God's will either way is the focus we do have before we depart and no longer can work to please God.

Both to bless or hate can provide the good work God could be working in us moving us to perform.

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.Ecc 9:6

You do not have to like a person in order to love them even though it could be less work of being patient.... the first work in loving a person. And not loving a person by not blessing them (hate), when a blesing is not called for can help the other person grow and help them to believe they are not entitled to our love, that God could be working in us.

His love is unfailing but not without condition. Love is patient, the first work or condition of the Spirit of God. Love is kind the second in a list .No first work, no kindness, the after effect of long suffering right on down to the end of perfect love .

 

[mikpat]

Grace,

Not too familiar with the term "worked - based salvationists", is that like "faith-based salvationists?
Better to combine both.

Some one asked Jesus ——-MT 22: 36, What is the greatest commandment in the law,,,we all know the first but the second Commandment——uuuuhh "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.."

Your #3 , being pure, chaste etc requires a great deal of work—————huh for most of us.
Your #5, being a law-abiding citizen requires a great deal of work.

Treating others like you like to be treated——-requires a great deal of work.
We commit ourselves to our friends, believers but to all of mankind, Christ's Gospel is for peoples of all sorts.

If you speed (breaking the law and endagering your neighbor) and die, I am sure The Boss up there will have something to say about the negligent wrong done to a neighbor,,,,,,,

Uhhh, I am not privvy to what punishment God will hand out——-that's up to Him. If he tells you, let us know.

The Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes are mostly directed to man's behavior and relationship to God, they express man's fundamental duties towards God and neighbor.

Faith without good works is lifeless. Like some of the stories regarding the Pharisees

 

[garee]

The verse says that it COVERS sins, though ... so be they ours or someone else's against us ... I am still intrigued by the use of the word "covers" ... since Jesus' blood is said to COVER our sins. Anyone have any insight into the etymology of that word?

Been a while since I did check that out. My two cents...It does not mean to sweep the sin under a rug as in out of sight out of mind. .

I think it is used like a parable which means to hide or come alone side in comparison to not come along side in aid of another.

The reference you gave would be like not to sharpen cutting one’s own self by coming alongside the other as not be cut by what they are doing and drawing yourself away from God in the process .

The faith of God strengthens the person to come along side and love the other individual without having to become like them.

1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace,

Not too familiar with the term "worked - based salvationists", is that like "faith-based salvationists?
Better to combine both.

Some one asked Jesus ——-MT 22: 36, What is the greatest commandment in the law,,,we all know the first but the second Commandment——uuuuhh "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.."

Your #3 , being pure, chaste etc requires a great deal of work—————huh for most of us.
Your #5, being a law-abiding citizen requires a great deal of work.

Treating others like you like to be treated——-requires a great deal of work.
We commit ourselves to our friends, believers but to all of mankind, Christ's Gospel is for peoples of all sorts.

If you speed (breaking the law and endagering your neighbor) and die, I am sure The Boss up there will have something to say about the negligent wrong done to a neighbor,,,,,,,

Uhhh, I am not privvy to what punishment God will hand out——-that's up to Him. If he tells you, let us know.

The Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes are mostly directed to man's behavior and relationship to God, they express man's fundamental duties towards God and neighbor.

Faith without good works is lifeless. Like some of the stories regarding the Pharisees

Works-based salvationists are those that believe they must "do" things to maintain salvation that Christ paid for with His blood or work for it in the first place. These usually come in 2 forms.

One is "front-loading" requirements which means you need to do things in order to receive salvation ...kind of like JW's. Their works that they do is how they obtain salvation.

The 2nd form are "back-loading" requirements. This false belief teaches "you must do " things in order to maintain the free gift that Christ gave us.

Grace-based believers believe in the grace of Christ only for salvation and as they are being transformed by the Spirit of God - the life of Christ in us flows in and through us to do good works.

 

[mikpat]

Rather confusing——person A's attributes do not match all those negative characteristics.

It's difficult to imagine Person A with an alcohol problem, who likes to curse, speeds on the road (endangering life) coming late to work etc……

Ergo your scenario doesn't make sense, uhhhh imho.

AMDG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rather confusing——person A's attributes do not match all those negative characteristics.

It's difficult to imagine Person A with an alcohol problem, who likes to curse, speeds on the road (endangering life) coming late to work etc……

Ergo your scenario doesn't make sense, uhhhh imho.

AMDG

you do not get out in the world much do you?

I know many people who drink (I never claimed he was an alcoholic) who have the nicest personality you can imagine, I know many people who claim to be christian who are unloving, hatefull, do nothing but complain, and are very ungratefull.

 

[thepsalmist]

I do not think he is talking about eternal covering, for the very reason you just suggested, But something else. Which I tried to explain, and you may still not get

Hehe ... the spark's not taking brother ... happens sometimes

 

[seed_time_harvest]

1 PETER 4:8


8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. (KJV)


8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.(NIV)



This scripture piqued my interest ... I'm curious as to other's response to it ... Feedback?

If a person Is doing something for someone and their motivation Is not because of love,then It Is not the fruit of the spirit In truth,but being done for selfish reasons.
+++

1 Corinthians 13:1-7
King James Version(KJV)

1.)Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2.)And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3.)And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4.)Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5.)Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6.)Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7.)Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

 

[mikpat]

Garee,

"Covers" ——-as I see it——-Frankie, the son of a big time mafia boss, arrives at the bosses' office Pub, "hey dad i just lost three grand at that pokergame last nite. Good old dad says,,",Ahh Frankie, don't worry, you're "COVERED".
Frankie thanks Dad——"Whew".

Poor choice of words, I guess, but Dad would be the "blood……" Since he has to pay out the loss. Sort of like Christ.

AMDG

 

[mikpat]

Eter Grateful,

Your comment regarding whether I get out into the world or not is rather childish. You haven't a clue about my life's experiences——

 

[Demi777]

Eter Grateful,

Your comment regarding whether I get out into the world or not is rather childish. You haven't a clue about my life's experiences——

/....

 

[Demi777]

Regarding this phrase " … once saved, always saved" is never explained in reasonable English self thinking but instead we get dozens of biblical quotes, word salads, loose associations etc.

Now we have a discussion about hating your brother, sister or cousin and whether it's sinful, jeopardizing one's salvation or a believer can never hate some one.

Well if I go by the phrase…"once saved, always saved" good grief, why worry about whom you hate, despise, love etc?

You are saved…ain't cha?

This comment gives me hope that theres more than a few christians still alive not blinded
Thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eter Grateful,

Your comment regarding whether I get out into the world or not is rather childish. You haven't a clue about my life's experiences——

You said a christian would not do those things.

you have either been sheltered from reality or do not understand what a true christian is and the struggles we may still have are.

What else would I say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Regarding this phrase " … once saved, always saved" is never explained in reasonable English self thinking but instead we get dozens of biblical quotes, word salads, loose associations etc.

Now we have a discussion about hating your brother, sister or cousin and whether it's sinful, jeopardizing one's salvation or a believer can never hate some one.

Well if I go by the phrase…"once saved, always saved" good grief, why worry about whom you hate, despise, love etc?

You are saved…ain't cha?

it matters a lot sadly.

1. Saved people still sin
2. Saved people as babes in Christ still need to grow. and mature in Christ


and finally.

Many saved people think they are saved when they are not.

Once saved always saved, Eternal security, Secure in Christ, Eternal life.. no matter how you say it, does not change any of those things.

 

[mikpat]

Grace——

I just go by the 2nd Great Commandment, the First of course…..

His Commandments, the Law,,,tells you what to do,————-



Only when both dimensions soul and body, faith and good works are truly united does man attain his full stature. And only thus is love able to mature.

I haven't met any of your uhh Christian "work-based salvationists" except for an honest atheist, agnostic, who feels that good works helps society,,order, cohesiveness et,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grace——

I just go by the 2nd Great Commandment, the First of course…..

His Commandments, the Law,,,tells you what to do,————-



Only when both dimensions soul and body, faith and good works are truly united does man attain his full stature. And only thus is love able to mature.

I haven't met any of your uhh Christian "work-based salvationists" except for an honest atheist, agnostic, who feels that good works helps society,,order, cohesiveness et,

what??

 

[BrotherJustin]

...still trying to picture these 25 pages of comments through the eyes of a babe in Christ, as the OP...

 

[roaringkitten]

1)We were redeemed by the blood of the Lamb:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" 1 Pet 1:18-19

2)The Bible specifically calls this redemption "eternal"

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb 9:12

3)We are secure only in the blood of the Lamb of God. When He saves, He saves to the uttermost. The blood is what gives us eternal security. Those who have placed faith in His blood, are safe forever.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Heb 7:25

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Grace——

I just go by the 2nd Great Commandment, the First of course…..

His Commandments, the Law,,,tells you what to do,————-



Only when both dimensions soul and body, faith and good works are truly united does man attain his full stature. And only thus is love able to mature.

I haven't met any of your uhh Christian "work-based salvationists" except for an honest atheist, agnostic, who feels that good works helps society,,order, cohesiveness et,

Some will come out and say things like a person has got to baptized In water to be saved ect...Things like misunderstanding faith without work Is dead.

Nevertheless some don't come right out and say It,they Imply It,leaving the reader with no other conclusion but to recognize that they really are talking about salvation Is by faith + works.

 

[Grandpa]

...still trying to picture these 25 pages of comments through the eyes of a babe in Christ, as the OP...

Ahhh....

The OP is just a catalyst so we can get back to our favorite arguments...

lol