Once saved always saved?
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FreeGrace2 said:
Do you realize that to "fully submit" requires effort on your part? Are you RCC? They believe that they must "cooperate" with God in their salvation. iow, Jesus does some things, and YOU must do certain things.
Do you believe that? It appears so. Change my mind.
Those who believe that they must submit in order to be saved, are not following the biblical way to be saved. It is all about trusting what Jesus did on the cross for them. When someone ADDS their own efforts to the deal, it's a NO DEAL.
All believers are commanded to submit. But believers are already saved.
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
No, I only want the truth. No one is saved by cooperating with God by their own efforts.
Correct.
Correct.
You can't, obviously. But your previous comment implied that submission is required for salvation.
I think you have it backwards. Works are the basis for our eternal rewards. God's crediting righteousness to us is a gift, which means it cannot be earned.
Do you realize that to "fully submit" requires effort on your part? Are you RCC? They believe that they must "cooperate" with God in their salvation. iow, Jesus does some things, and YOU must do certain things.
Do you believe that? It appears so. Change my mind.
Those who believe that they must submit in order to be saved, are not following the biblical way to be saved. It is all about trusting what Jesus did on the cross for them. When someone ADDS their own efforts to the deal, it's a NO DEAL.
All believers are commanded to submit. But believers are already saved.
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
No, I only want the truth. No one is saved by cooperating with God by their own efforts.
Correct.
Correct.
You can't, obviously. But your previous comment implied that submission is required for salvation.
I think you have it backwards. Works are the basis for our eternal rewards. God's crediting righteousness to us is a gift, which means it cannot be earned.
According to Jesus, plants grew in 3 of the 4 soils. That would indicate salvation. Living plants. However, 2 of the 3 living plants in the soils didn't mature. That speaks of failure to grow up spiritually, which is a real problem in today's churches.
This would suggest that true believers WILL produce fruit, but the Bible does not teach this. In fact, the Bible commands believers to produce fruit. There are many failures among believers. They ARE saved, but failed to grow up in their salvation. 1 Pet 2:2 - Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
The sole issue is this: do YOU believe Jesus when He said that recipients of eternal life (which is WHEN they believe, John 5:24) shall never perish?
This is true, AND, Jesus gave NO exceptions in John 10:28 about recipients of eteranl life actually perishing, as you are claiming.
Please read the WHOLE context. The "end" refers to the end of the Great Tribulation. Not your life, and NOT any other time frame.
This is true, AND, Jesus gave NO exceptions in John 10:28 about recipients of eteranl life actually perishing, as you are claiming.
Please read the WHOLE context. The "end" refers to the end of the Great Tribulation. Not your life, and NOT any other time frame.
Basically the same thing as Psa 66:18 - If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;
iow, failure to forgive others is a sin. And God doesn't forgive the sins that aren't confessed. 1 John 1:9.
So, as long as a believer doesn't forgive others, he/she remains out of fellowship with the Lord, is grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit and cannot grow up spiritually.
iow, failure to forgive others is a sin. And God doesn't forgive the sins that aren't confessed. 1 John 1:9.
So, as long as a believer doesn't forgive others, he/she remains out of fellowship with the Lord, is grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit and cannot grow up spiritually.
Ephesians 4:32 is written to practicing Christians:
Ephesians 1:1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:
It echos the same kind of command Jesus gave in Matt. 6:14,15
Matthew 6:14,15
14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Ephesians 1:1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:
It echos the same kind of command Jesus gave in Matt. 6:14,15
Matthew 6:14,15
14For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Hi free grace, I think you need to re read my post.
Do you not submit to Jesus as your Lord🤔
Do you not serve your Lord and Master🤔
Do you not serve your brothers and sisters🤔
If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Free Grace said:
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
There is no mention of our cooperation being a gift. I do read that Paul's efforts were under the grace of God. What does that mean? It means the gift of the Holy Spirit is also a gift of God.
However, since Paul also commands believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, it should be obvious that believers may not produce fruit. But they are commanded to produce fruit.
What verse says our cooperation is a gift?
There is no mention of our cooperation being a gift. I do read that Paul's efforts were under the grace of God. What does that mean? It means the gift of the Holy Spirit is also a gift of God.
However, since Paul also commands believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit, it should be obvious that believers may not produce fruit. But they are commanded to produce fruit.