My friend your trying to make an act of you going to get baptized (which takes physical work) to a trust in the work of someone else. There is a huge difference.
I don'r know how many times I can say this, but without God's grace baptism is just "getting wet" as some Protestants would call it. Thats what I'm trying to get across we can do nothing of our own accord in baptism to save ourselves. Calvinism and later Evangelicalism is largely the cause of the modern Protestant belief that there are two baptisms that occur at two different times, with the exception of Lutherans and Anglicans of course. Likely because of the two aforementioned groups aversion to anything that can be in any way possible construed to be a work.
Holy Spirit Baptism is God working to wash us (rom 6) and place us into the body of Christ.
Which is what water baptism does.
Water Baptism is merely a man placing you in water. A huge difference.
Or it is God washing us with the waters of life.
Yeah he does. In spiritual baptism. But not in water. The man baptising you does work. And you have to "go" to the place to be baptized. this is work. God does not carry you to the water, and baptize you in the water. God baptizes you with the holy water (Holy Spirit)
Since I haven't read the whole thread I'm going to have to assume that your're a Calvinist. God calling us and us responding to that call is not a work.
Ah but here we go. Paul makes it clear there is one Gospel. You here are saying God saves some people one way, and others another. That is two gospels.
No it's not. They are all saved by the Christ which is the Gospel, and they were all still washed in baptism, they were just washed in a different manner than usual. This isn't two Gospels, two Gospels would be me saying that God saves Christians one way and Muslims another way.
Yes God has commanded that we all be baptized, in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit. Yet more amazing is John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus WOULD baptise with the HS, Jesus himself promised we WOULD BE baptized with the Holy Spirit. Peter witness the Baptism of the HS
You know how the HS descended upon Christ at his baptism? That's what we believe happens when we are baptized, God cleanses us from our sin and the HS comes to dwell within us.
A baptism by God is not the same as a Baptism in the name of God These are two separate baptisms. Paul makes it clear there is only One Baptism that saves. Not two.
Really the issue you raise is a non-issue for me since I believe that the two baptism that you differentiate between are one.
lastly. Can you show where Paul used the word sacrament for these religious rites and obligations?
For one I wouldn't expect Paul to use Latin when he was writing in Greek. Sacrament comes from the Latin word "sacer" which means "holy" or "sacred". The English word "Sacrament" comes from the Nominative form of "sacer" which is "sacramentum". Which means "That which is holy"
And this is found in scripture where?
In order for you to accept the reasoning behind the theology of that paragraph you would first have to accept baptismal regeneration
Well thanks. But I chose the spiritual baptism performed By God himself. Not a physical baptism where I get wet and thats it. I was baptized By God, And I followed this baptism by allowing my pastor to baptize me in water after I openly confessed my faith to my church.
Like I said before the majority of Christians do not believe there are two different baptism that take place at two different times. We believe that both of the baptisms you describe are indeed one and the same baptism.
Yet Jesus said we can HAVE eterrnal life. Paul said over and over we have it (present tense) might not have it. If we do not have it. Jesus and Paul are both liars. If one thinks about it. The only way salvation can be assured only at the time of death is if someone is working for it. For one must ask. Did I do enough to earn Gods grace? or have I not. This is works based. John made it clear. we can KNOW we have (not might have) eternal life. And this is the hope of which our faith is based in "In the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began" If we can not "know we have it" until after we die. We have no hope..
Do understand the concept of "State of Grace" If so then what I said makes sense. When we are baptized God gives us what we call our "Initial Justification", and we can fall out of our "Initial Justification" through committing mortal sin, and to be restored to my Justified state I must repent. At any given time I can know what state my soul is in by examining my own conscious. So I can know at any given time whether I am "saved" or not, but I can not presume to know what state my soul will be in a day or a week from now. Some of the ECF's even described presuming such knowledge to be one of the most heinous sins of pride. That is why Catholics say "I'm being saved" and not "I'm saved".
