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You have to keep reading in 1st Peter. In 1 Peter chapter 4. It says,
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:1-6).
Did you catch that? Peter says, for the time of their past life had once wrought the will of the Gentiles walking in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, etc. He continues to say that they (the Gentiles) think it strange that we (believers) do not continue to run with them in the same way and therefore, so they speak evil against us.
In fact, 2 Peter 2:1, 14 really closes the book shut on any OSAS doctrine. Peter mentions that there are false prophets (believers) in 2 Peter 2:1. Peter describes these false prophets as having eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin. This is confirmed by Jude, as well. For in Jude 1:4 we are told that there are those who would turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4 NIV).
In addition, you tried to use 2 Timothy chapter 3 against me before in the wine thread. However, this chapter actually refutes OSAS big time, though. Just read the chapter.
It says those false believers who have a form of Godliness are lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God. They are unholy, covetous, truce breakers, heady, high minded, proud, boasters, blasphemers, etc. See, the OSAS proponent does not need to worry about any of these sins because all these sins are supposedly paid for. So they do not treat sin as serious as the man of God who repents and or confesses his sin and strives to walk uprightly with the Lord.
If this chapter was in support of OSAS, then it would say something about just belief alone and that being righteous in any way shape or form is a mark of the false believer. But that's not what we see described in 2 Timothy 3, though.
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:1-6).
Did you catch that? Peter says, for the time of their past life had once wrought the will of the Gentiles walking in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, etc. He continues to say that they (the Gentiles) think it strange that we (believers) do not continue to run with them in the same way and therefore, so they speak evil against us.
In fact, 2 Peter 2:1, 14 really closes the book shut on any OSAS doctrine. Peter mentions that there are false prophets (believers) in 2 Peter 2:1. Peter describes these false prophets as having eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin. This is confirmed by Jude, as well. For in Jude 1:4 we are told that there are those who would turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4 NIV).
In addition, you tried to use 2 Timothy chapter 3 against me before in the wine thread. However, this chapter actually refutes OSAS big time, though. Just read the chapter.
It says those false believers who have a form of Godliness are lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God. They are unholy, covetous, truce breakers, heady, high minded, proud, boasters, blasphemers, etc. See, the OSAS proponent does not need to worry about any of these sins because all these sins are supposedly paid for. So they do not treat sin as serious as the man of God who repents and or confesses his sin and strives to walk uprightly with the Lord.
If this chapter was in support of OSAS, then it would say something about just belief alone and that being righteous in any way shape or form is a mark of the false believer. But that's not what we see described in 2 Timothy 3, though.
U
When you hear me say "it is good to sin" or "it is not an issue if a Believer sins", then you can call me lascivious, and an antichrist.
But I preach the opposite. I preach faith unto salvation, and salvation unto sanctification, and sanctification for the purpose of producing good works prepared in advance for us to do.
The outcome and result is the same: a righteous, sin overcoming, chain breaking believer.
The motive is opposite: perseverance for the sake of self-preservation and by the power of will, verses perseverance out of love and appreciation by the power of the Spirit.
But I preach the opposite. I preach faith unto salvation, and salvation unto sanctification, and sanctification for the purpose of producing good works prepared in advance for us to do.
The outcome and result is the same: a righteous, sin overcoming, chain breaking believer.
The motive is opposite: perseverance for the sake of self-preservation and by the power of will, verses perseverance out of love and appreciation by the power of the Spirit.
Yes, I have bundled eternal security into lasciviousness because that is the fruit of such a doctrine. People who have come out of OSAS were led to believe that the way they lived didn't really matter. For it leads men to think they do not have to worry so much about sin because they are Once Saved Always Saved. In fact, there are many OSAS proponents who have told me that they can sin and still be saved. So yes. It is a doctrine of demons that promotes a license for immorality. Not always openly in some cases, sometimes it is subtle in the way it answers the issue of morality. For there are Classic OSASers who will openly admit that they can sin and still be saved (with absolutely no shame for any evil that they may do). Then there are Mid range OSASers who believe that a believer cannot live an excessive sinful lifestyle or they are not a true believer. However, the Mid ranger OSASer (Which probably describes your position) somehow believes that one or two sins (that are not repented or confessed in your Christian life) may not necessarily separate you from God. Then there are OSAS Lite folks who I consider to be my brothers (Although still misled). They believe that if you live a sinful lifestyle, you never saved to begin with. But there are tons of passages about falling away.
U
And yet you argue with me as if I claimed OSAS?
Did you read nothing I posted?
Did I not rebuke OSAS in my post, and fully explain how eternal security is different?
If you don't want to have a real conversation, why even respond? Just blog about it if you want a monologue.
I have been responding to your points directly on this thread, and the other thread that you pulled me from,
yet you do not respond to my points, but only push your prepackaged lines that barely touch the issue at hand.
Did you read nothing I posted?
Did I not rebuke OSAS in my post, and fully explain how eternal security is different?
If you don't want to have a real conversation, why even respond? Just blog about it if you want a monologue.
I have been responding to your points directly on this thread, and the other thread that you pulled me from,
yet you do not respond to my points, but only push your prepackaged lines that barely touch the issue at hand.
As for salvation not being based on works: This is true. A believer does not do works to save themselves. That would be salvation by works, which is wrong. It is the opposite extreme of Antinomianism (or Classic OSAS) (Where the moral law does not apply to the believer). Salvation is not by works because God (Christ) ultimately does the good work witnin you and not you (See Philippians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 15:10; John 15:5). For when a person repents of their sins and accepts Jesus they become born again spiritually and God (Who is the source of salvation) lives within them. In other words, salvation is a relationship. It is not in something you do. The Spirit of God will convict the true believer to continue to abide in Christ so as to bring forth the fruits of the Spirit within our lives. These are not our fruits. They are the fruits of God. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Yes, we must daily choose to abide in Christ (Who is salvation), but this is just choosing Jesus and asking Him to work within us. For works are just the natural result of having been saved and abiding in salvation (Who is God).
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How can I respond to opinions that are not based on Scripture? That doesn't make any sense. You have to actually list Bible verses to prove your points. Otherwise you got nothing, my friend. Back up what you say with actual verses and then I will consider the verse(s) and explain what it really says using the context and or other related passages.
Also, lets cut threw the baloney for a moment and tell it to me straight. Do you believe under any circumstance that you can commit an unconfessed sin that is serious and still be saved?
For if you do, then 2 Peter 2:1, 14 is talking about that self professing believer who holds to your version of OSAS.
For if you do, then 2 Peter 2:1, 14 is talking about that self professing believer who holds to your version of OSAS.
No, you are shadow boxing if you don't provide Scripture. I don't read people's posts on OSAS anymore unless they post verses. I have heard all the excuses and read too many silly ideas that are not based on Scripture in my many discussion against OSASers over the years. We are here to talk Bible. Not personal points or opinions. You bring up the Bible verse to your points and I will answer them. If not, then lets move on.