ONCE saved always saved!.

[JaumeJ]

When we are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ, we believe Him. Do you remember that moment. The Father says to us when sealing us with His Holy Spirit, you have done well. We have faith because we believe in the One Whom the Father sent. We are already doing good works. We cannot help ourselves, and our heart's desire is to continue to please our Savior for all He has done for us. If we do nothing, it can only be because our faith was not real in the first place.

Being in this forum, sharing with other brethren is works, yes, it is. Perhaps some people think we all have to be used to work miracles or do those wonders given the Apostles to work, NO, works are believing, works are waiting, works are loving.............all of those works are our due, yet we are told by doing what is our due anyway, we are accruing reward come the Kingdom. Yes, anyone who has faith works. In the love of Jesus Christ, it is unavoicable.

 

[Alligator]

No, James 2:24 says no such thing. Repent of this false claim.

Repent ?? LOL

Okay, you seem to have all the answers. Why don't you tell us what it means?

 

[Jason0047]

Both Antinomianism (OSAS or in having a license to sin) and Legalism (Salvation by human effort and works) are two wrong extremes of each other. Both are not truly honoring Jesus who is capable of doing the good works within them. Both are trying to take the Kingdom of God by force. The Antinomian believes God forces salvation upon you the moment they make that one decision of faith. The Legalist believes they must force their way into Heaven on their own human effort.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11:12).

For the Biblical teaching on Conditional Salvation teaches that it is God that brings salvation and that it is His works that are being brought forth within your life (When you surrender to His Spirit). There is no taking the Kingdom by force, because one is walking after the Spirit. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (Romans 8:1).

 

[Alligator]

No. I have already said many times already that I believe James when he says faith without works is dead. I do not believe Christians can be anarchists or rebels against God. This would be Antinomianism, which I am strongly against.

The key to understanding is that God does the work witin you after He saves you.
Both the Antinomian and the Legalist ignore this truth and seek to glorify themselves instead of God.

In other words, the Antinomian (OSAS proponent) worships himself (while also trying to serve God) because they are still a slave or servant to their own sin. The Legalist worships himself in the fact that they are saved on their own human effort (or self righteousness) instead of what Jesus did for us on the cross. The legalist is worshiping their own sense of righteousness as a way to God and they will be puffed up like the Pharisee in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Thinking they are better than everyone else because they are externally doing all the right things to be saved instead of trusting in Jesus for salvation). The Legalist is placing their faith in their own deeds and worshiping their own human effort for salvation instead of receiving the free gift (Who is God) whereby He does the good work within them. So salvation is about a relationship. It's not about you trying to force your way into the Kingdom by your own human effort apart from God. Nor is salvation about God forcing a person into the Kingdom because they made a one time decision of faith, either.

you started off by saying simply no. No to what exactly?

as far as the two groups you just mentioned, I think they are both wrong. But I'm not going to get into a lot of discussion since they are not bible terms.

 

[notuptome]

Both Antinomianism (OSAS or in having a license to sin) and Legalism (Salvation by human effort and works) are two wrong extremes of each other. Both are not truly honoring Jesus who is capable of doing the good works within them. Both are trying to take the Kingdom of God by force. The Antinomian believes God forces salvation upon you the moment they make that one decision of faith. The Legalist believes they must force their way into Heaven on their own human effort.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11:12).

For the Biblical teaching on Conditional Salvation teaches that it is God that brings salvation and that it is His works that are being brought forth within your life (When you surrender to His Spirit). There is no taking the Kingdom by force, because one is walking after the Spirit. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (Romans 8:1).

Nope you are reading into this that which you choose to add. The bible teaches salvation by grace. There are no conditions on Gods grace. Gods grace does produce distinctive results which cannot be mistaken by those who have been saved.

Eternal salvation dose not give one a license to sin. To make salvation conditional is to make salvation dependent on man and not on Christ. Time to check what it is that you got. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. We are saved by grace and kept by grace. We become a new creature in Christ with a new nature. The old nature is passing away but continues to war against the new nature being formed. As we mature in Christ we become more and more conformed to His image leaving the old man behind.

I have less inclination to sin the longer I walk with my Savior but I have no fear of condemnation should I sin. Pick a side either you are saved by grace or you are working to be saved. You cannot be both.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Both Antinomianism (OSAS or in having a license to sin) and Legalism (Salvation by human effort and works) are two wrong extremes of each other. Both are not truly honoring Jesus who is capable of doing the good works within them. Both are trying to take the Kingdom of God by force. The Antinomian believes God forces salvation upon you the moment they make that one decision of faith. The Legalist believes they must force their way into Heaven on their own human effort.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11:12).

For the Biblical teaching on Conditional Salvation teaches that it is God that brings salvation and that it is His works that are being brought forth within your life (When you surrender to His Spirit). There is no taking the Kingdom by force, because one is walking after the Spirit. For there is no Condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (Romans 8:1).

In other words, in my dealings with OSAS proponents and Legalists on a previous forum, both have been hostile towards me in their behavior. But Jesus said if we hate our brother is the equivalent as murder. Does that mean some of them who were hostile to me were truly hateful to the point of being in trouble with God? I am not sure. Only God knows. But my point is that it shows that one can be violent in spirit with one's words and in how one treats others. This is why I believe Jesus said that the violent try to take the Kingdom of God by force. It does not necessarily mean they may be violent as we would coin the phrase today, but they are violent in the way they talk with people and in the way they regard them as another child of God.

 

[Jason0047]

you started off by saying simply no. No to what exactly?

I was saying no to the idea that I believe a true faith will have no works. What you said made it sound like I don't believe that. Yet, I do not believe salvation is by works, though (Even though works must be present in a true believer's life).

as far as the two groups you just mentioned, I think they are both wrong. But I'm not going to get into a lot of discussion since they are not bible terms.

Regardless if a word is in the Bible or not, there are many many words that are used by Christians that are not in the Bible. Like the words, "Bible", "Trinity", "Worship Service", "Fundamentalist", etc.

Sometimes there is no exact word describing a certain wrong belief, so it is helpful to create certain words (That is common amongst many believers) to merely help to express a wrong or right view of the Scriptures.

 

[Jason0047]

Nope you are reading into this that which you choose to add. The bible teaches salvation by grace. There are no conditions on Gods grace. Gods grace does produce distinctive results which cannot be mistaken by those who have been saved.

Eternal salvation dose not give one a license to sin. To make salvation conditional is to make salvation dependent on man and not on Christ. Time to check what it is that you got. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. We are saved by grace and kept by grace. We become a new creature in Christ with a new nature. The old nature is passing away but continues to war against the new nature being formed. As we mature in Christ we become more and more conformed to His image leaving the old man behind.

I have less inclination to sin the longer I walk with my Savior but I have no fear of condemnation should I sin. Pick a side either you are saved by grace or you are working to be saved. You cannot be both.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. Meaing you cannot serve God and also serve sin. It is impossible. Paul said that if any man teaches contrary to the doctrine of Godliness and the words of Jesus is proud and knows nothing. Paul also asks the question, shall we continue in sin? He said God forbid. Again, I want you to read Romans 11:20-22 and explain to me how that passage is in support of OSAS.

 

[Alligator]

I was saying no to the idea that I believe a true faith will have no works. What you said made it sound like I don't believe that. Yet, I do not believe salvation is by works, though (Even though works must be present in a true believer's life).



Regardless if a word is in the Bible or not, there are many many words that are used by Christians that are not in the Bible. Like the words, "Bible", "Trinity", "Worship Service", "Fundamentalist", etc.

Sometimes there is no exact word describing a certain wrong belief, so it is helpful to create certain words (That is common amongst many believers) to merely help to express a wrong or right view of the Scriptures.

here is where I am coming from. I think we both agree that faith without any works is a dead and an un saving faith. Is that correct? So if works must follow faith in order to make it an saving faith , then we are not saved by faith alone . But that makes works a part of gods plan of salvation.

 

[lisa79]

If you show Him faith by works then He shows you works by faith. It is the dialog that keeps the coversation going. Always asking in prayer (ask) and always answering (seek) in action (knock) not in word. Ask, seek, knock....

 

[notuptome]

Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. Meaing you cannot serve God and also serve sin. It is impossible. Paul said that if any man teaches contrary to the doctrine of Godliness and the words of Jesus is proud and knows nothing. Paul also asks the question, shall we continue in sin? He said God forbid. Again, I want you to read Romans 11:20-22 and explain to me how that passage is in support of OSAS.

I already told you that Rom 11 is about God electing first the Jew then the Gentiles. Nothing to do with personal salvation.

Paul describes the war between the old man and the new man in Rom 7:7-25 esp vs 25 he arrives at the conclusion that it is Christ not himself that is important. the unbeliever has no conflict in his heart over sin. The believer anguishes over sin in his life as the Holy Spirit bring conviction. No conviction one had better re-evaluate their salvation profession.

Why do you insist on assuming that all saved people sin without guilt? God has said that the saved person is no longer under the condemnation of sin but if we sin after we are saved we will still feel the consequences of sin. It is a capricious notion that Christians can sin without recompense. The only thing being that the recompense cannot be eternal death like the unsaved person. John 5:24 seems pretty clear and it is Jesus who is speaking.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hoffco]

Paul spoke good of one who would "lay hold of eternal life". I think John the Baptist spoke good of one who would be so desperate to get saved that they would "take the kingdom by force". Jason, I think you are going too extreme with you application antinomianism and legalism. You are making me wrong for me personally making rules for myself that I am lead by the holy Spirit that I need in my personal persuite of holiness that another person may not need. and others rules which I don't need, I have liberty not to apply them in my life. You have no right to play policeman in my life. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Alligator]

Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. Meaing you cannot serve God and also serve sin. It is impossible. Paul said that if any man teaches contrary to the doctrine of Godliness and the words of Jesus is proud and knows nothing. Paul also asks the question, shall we continue in sin? He said God forbid. Again, I want you to read Romans 11:20-22 and explain to me how that passage is in support of OSAS.

Romans 11:20-22 actually refutes OSAS.

 

[mailmandan]

So if works must follow faith in order to make it an saving faith, then we are not saved by faith alone. But that makes works a part of gods plan of salvation.

Works are the fruit of salvation but never the root of it. Man is saved by the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works. We are saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is proved to be genuine if it is followed by good works. Believers are not doing good works in order to become saved, they are doing good works because they have already been saved by an authentic faith in Jesus which trusts exclusively in Him for salvation. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24).*Perfect Harmony*

 

[Alligator]

Works are the fruit is still in my post and 1149. of salvation but never the root of it. Man is saved by the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works. We are saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is proved to be genuine if it is followed by good works. Believers are not doing good works in order to become saved, they are doing good works because they have already been saved by an authentic faith in Jesus which trusts exclusively in Him for salvation. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24).*Perfect Harmony*

See my post number 1149. That this does not answer that question.

 

[mailmandan]

See my post number 1149. That this does not answer that question. So if works must follow faith in order to make it an saving faith, then we are not saved by faith alone. But that makes works a part of gods plan of salvation.

Do works make our faith a saving faith or do good works demonstrate that we have a living, saving faith? What comes first? Faith made alive in Christ by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:5-8) or good works (Ephesians 2:10)? Saved through faith, not works, is not saved through faith and works. We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone. Good works follow as the fruit.

A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith but BECAUSE it's a living faith; just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree, but BECAUSE it's a living tree. Faith and the tree are alive FIRST (life flows through the root) then afterward produces the works/fruit. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation.

 

[newbirth]

Works are the fruit of salvation but never the root of it. Man is saved by the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works

.Man is saved by grace through the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works

We are saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is proved to be genuine if it is followed by good works.

.Man is saved by grace through the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works

Believers are not doing good works in order to become saved, they are doing good works because they have already been saved by an authentic faith in Jesus which trusts exclusively in Him for salvation.

Believers are not doing good works in order to become saved, Believers are doing good works because good works accompany faith and believers live by faith

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24).*Perfect Harmony*

Man is saved by grace through the kind of faith that is accompanied (confirmed, authenticated) by good works

If you separate faith from works you kill faith...faith without works is dead.

 

[SeaBass]

Have you not read that God makes the rain to fall on the good and the wicked alike? Matthew 5:45 You grossly undervalue the mercy and kindness of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Rain has nothing to with God's mercy.

 

[mailmandan]

If you separate faith from works you kill faith...faith without works is dead.

Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates no root. Works without faith is bad fruit. Faith is made alive in Christ FIRST, then unto good works. Life flows through the root and produces the fruit in a tree, right? It's the same with faith and works.

 

[SeaBass]

What is your proof of that one?

You are at odds with the Word of God which tells us that God is gracious, good to sinners, good to HIs enemies:

God, is rich in mercy and has loved the sinners dead in sin & had absolutely no good works, and were unrighteous.

Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.





Thus you had best repent of your contradictions to God's Word, and believe His promises.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.



Over & over again salvation is offered on one condition only, that of belief/faith. A very few times the word "obey" is used. To obey the gospel is to obey this command:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." That is the only command to obey for salvation.



His vengeance was satisfied at the cross where the Lord Jesus paid that vengeance. Only a fool rejects his payment & insists on paying it himself in the Lake of Fire.




The only condition "that we might be" is faith/belief/trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior. Read the verse: if you are ever to be righteous, it will be because you are placed in Christ. Man is made righteous by God (passive voice), man does not make himself righteous by obedience to commands.



You are making things up that are not in the text. Now since you don't obey, what will happen to you? Since all your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, how do you escape the Lake of Fire?



You make things up. Scripture never says that someone in Christ can become no longer in Him. In fact 2 John says that once you get in the Body of Christ you stay there.

What is more unfaithful that to post lies about salvation on the internet? What is more unfaithful that to deny that man must believe to be saved without any works?

To any who deny that the Lord Jesus is Savior, and would relegate Him to the role of "chance-giver," now is the day of salvation: Repent of this sin and trust the Lord Jesus as your only & sufficient Savior.

[/COLOR]Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.

God showed his mercy and grace to all mankind by sending Christ to die on the cross. Even though God's grace has appeared to all men, Tts 2:11, all men will not be saved. That's because the mercy/grace that God showed toward all men is conditional upon men obeying, Heb 5:9.

Heb 5:9 does not say Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that have faith only....you purposefully, willfully changed the verse then accuse me of making things up???

God promised salvation to those that obey, Heb 5:9 and vengeance upon those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8. Faith only advocates can either accept thses promises of God or reject them, but they cannot ever get rid of God promises.