ONCE saved always saved!.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If you eternal security guys are right, then there is no need for the rest of the bible except for the gospels. There is no need for all of the admonition about living right, keeping your self clean, being careful not to fall away, etc. Cause once you accept the gift, its over. Its a done deal. You can't lose it no matter how much you sin after receiving it. You can go on a murder spree afterwards and still get into heaven. Oh i know what you are going to say, "After you are saved, you won't want to sin." Well you may not want to, but you will! And if you don't repent of that sin, you going to hell. It's so sad to see you guys completely deceived into thinking that. Its going to be a sad day when you stand before God and all that sin comes dragging behind you.
Now here as a HUGE assumption and false idea which would do nothing but fit your own belief.

God makes us his children, secure in him forever. He does not make us God (all knowing, all righteous, All everything) We are saved as babes in Christ.

A babe has to learn. What do you think the rest of the bible is for.

In fact. if eternal security is false. the bible has no meaning, because there is no salvation. For no one is saved, they are only in an intermediate state between not saved and saved. Never to fully realise their salvation until the end, When according to scripture it is too late. And in reality, we could never know if we are saved or not. Only guess.

SOunds very catholic to me.. no thanks.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
here is more evidence of babbling

the scripture is clear...we are saved by grace ...they were removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ ...how can you say they were not saved

So they stopped earning grace, is that what you were saying?

Everytime you give someone the gospel. You are calling them to grace. Does everyone you witness to get saved?




now you are talking about work... which you claim is trying to earn salvation.

Um. No, That is what God calls it. If it is being used to gain, keep, or prevent you from losing salvation. It is a salvation by works. not grace.


where is your supporting scripture...as far as the scripture goes we are saved by grace God does not partly save..... therefore the truly save theory is bogus ..you are either saved or not.Men do draw back.
so lets see what you said

"God does not partly save" I agree
"Yet the truely saved theory is bogus " But would that not make us partially saved?

"Your saved or not".. So again, we are not partially saved, But we may not be saved, because our salvation is not secure.

wow. talk about babble. and contradiction.. Which is it?? Do you even know?
 
Jun 26, 2014
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Now here as a HUGE assumption and false idea which would do nothing but fit your own belief.

God makes us his children, secure in him forever. He does not make us God (all knowing, all righteous, All everything) We are saved as babes in Christ.

A babe has to learn. What do you think the rest of the bible is for.

In fact. if eternal security is false. the bible has no meaning, because there is no salvation. For no one is saved, they are only in an intermediate state between not saved and saved. Never to fully realise their salvation until the end, When according to scripture it is too late. And in reality, we could never know if we are saved or not. Only guess.

SOunds very catholic to me.. no thanks.
Like I said before, I believe in eternal security. Once I get to heaven, I will be eternally secure! Until then, I will continue to obey the bible and work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Atwood the problem is I don't deny the scriptures you have put out, but you deny the ones I put out. They all apply to us, this only becomes a debate because the ones I post when put in your context would make them contradict themselves. But when put in the proper context in which I am trying to show you, does not have them contradict.

Saying they don't apply to us, they make contradictions, or just wanting to write them off entirely is the way the devil has caused deception, and perversion in the gospel.

My faith is in our Lord Jesus Christ, and through Him I will be saved. I will hold fast and endure any trial and tribulation that comes in my life with out wavering in my faith. For I am not of those who fall back, but stay stead fast in our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
here is more evidence of babbling

the scripture is clear...we are saved by grace ...they were removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ ...how can you say they were not saved

now you are talking about work... which you claim is trying to earn salvation.

where is your supporting scripture...as far as the scripture goes we are saved by grace God does not partly save..... therefore the truly save theory is bogus ..you are either saved or not.Men do draw back.
ps. I forgot to thank you for actually quoting correct. I appreciate that :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are missing the point then. Reexamine the Scriptures, and you will find that our HOPE is in the Day of Salvation at the Lord's coming.
I am saved now, because God has promised to save me. To Him there is no time. What He says is present and true.

The WORK of Salvation was completed in the sacrifice of Christ, but it is enacted when He returns.
Amen.

If you are not saved now in the hope of eternal life being assured.

You have no hope.

if you have no hope.

You have no faith "for faith is the evidence of things hoped for"
 
Jun 26, 2014
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Um. No, That is what God calls it. If it is being used to gain, keep, or prevent you from losing salvation. It is a salvation by works. not grace.
You really should stop lying on God. God never said that. You did.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God gave you the power to become a son ...so God does not stop you from being a son. It is up to you he says those who follow the spirit they are sons. It is obvious those who don't follow the spirit they are not sons. your reasoning says ...
what spirit are you following certainly not the spirit of Christ.

Can a son born of a father stop himself from being a son? No. By blood he is always the son, no matter what he says or does. his fathers blood keeps him a son.

Again I asked. does a son obey his father 100%. and if not. does that mean the son hates the father, or disowns the father (or more importantly, would the father disown him)

This is important because that is the father you are claiming God to be.


I was paid for by the blood of CHrist. That is an eternal payment, and eternal sonship.

God adopted me, I did not adopt him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You really should stop lying on God. God never said that. You did.

stop lying?

what?

If I am doing work to be saved, I am trying to MERIT salvation by my works.

if I am doing work to KEEP being saved. I am trying to merit salvation by my work

If I am doing work to keep from losing salvation. I am trying to merit salvation by my work.

Your the one who has been told and taught a lie my friend. You can not even understand true logic of what a merited reward is. vs a gift freely given.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Once again you assume. I never said God's grace was not sufficient to keep us saved.

But some will reject His grace, and the scriptures I posted make it clear that some have become partakers of His grace but then turn away.

That is why even though I know I will be saved into eternal salvation when our Lord Jesus comes back, I teach the same warnings our Lord and the apostles taught to those who are becoming believers in Christ to watch out for so that they are not drawn back to the world or deceived by false teachers ( anti-Christ's )

lol.. So Gods grace is not sufficient to keep us saved?

Tell me. When in our christian lives do we stop needing the grace of God?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Like I said before, I believe in eternal security. Once I get to heaven, I will be eternally secure! Until then, I will continue to obey the bible and work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.
then you have no hope (assurance). Thus you can have no faith. and how can you claim to be saved.

You just admitted you will try to earn your salvation by obeying and working.

And yet you call me a liar??

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Once again you assume. I never said God's grace was not sufficient to keep us saved.

But some will reject His grace, and the scriptures I posted make it clear that some have become partakers of His grace but then turn away.


How can I reject grace after it has already been given to me? and I actually have taken possession of it?


Do you listen to yourself? God gives me a gift does it ever stop being mine? it is ALWAYS MINE, He gave it freely. He did not put conditions on it or he will take it away, He gave it freely.

if I mistreat the gift I will suffer on earth, maybe even severe suffering (more severe than a non believer who is not a child) but the gift is still mine.


That is why even though I know I will be saved into eternal salvation when our Lord Jesus comes back, I teach the same warnings our Lord and the apostles taught to those who are becoming believers in Christ to watch out for so that they are not drawn back to the world or deceived by false teachers ( anti-Christ's )
How can you say you know when yuo can not possibly know. You do not know what you will belive a year from now. let alone 20 years from now..

Your fooling yourself.
 
L

LT

Guest
EG, many believe that we have to accept God into our heart to be saved. Or that we need to 'find' Jesus.
When they start believing these man-made phrases, they lose sight of Scriptural salvation to begin with.
It is hard to build upon a sandy foundation.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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stop lying?

what?

If I am doing work to be saved, I am trying to MERIT salvation by my works.

if I am doing work to KEEP being saved. I am trying to merit salvation by my work

If I am doing work to keep from losing salvation. I am trying to merit salvation by my work.

Your the one who has been told and taught a lie my friend. You can not even understand true logic of what a merited reward is. vs a gift freely given.
eternally, I would absolutely agree with your logic. If the bible didn't directly contradict you. I would agree that working out my salvation would constitute me trying to earn it. But since the bible explicitly commands me to do it, then its not me trying to earn salvation, its me being obedient. This is something you don't seem to grasp. Jesus has given us commandments to obey. You want to stand there and argue with him and tell him he is trying to make you work for salvation so you refuse to obey him. Well, shake your fists all you want, but at the end of the day, if you don't obey, you won't be saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG, many believe that we have to accept God into our heart to be saved. Or that we need to 'find' Jesus.
When they start believing these man-made phrases, they lose sight of Scriptural salvation to begin with.
It is hard to build upon a sandy foundation.

I agree. that is why letters like James, and many of pauls writings warned us of having an easily believism salvation. It has no power. it is based on a dead faith.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
eternally, I would absolutely agree with your logic. If the bible didn't directly contradict you. I would agree that working out my salvation would constitute me trying to earn it. But since the bible explicitly commands me to do it, then its not me trying to earn salvation, its me being obedient. This is something you don't seem to grasp. Jesus has given us commandments to obey. You want to stand there and argue with him and tell him he is trying to make you work for salvation so you refuse to obey him. Well, shake your fists all you want, but at the end of the day, if you don't obey, you won't be saved.
No

the bible does not command you to do it

It commands you to work out YOUR (ownership, already recieved, already signed sealed and delivered by the HS who is your garantee) salvation.

In other words. Do not remain babes like many in the corinthian church, WHo should be teachers. but instead still need fed. because they can not handle meat (and why they are still suffering in sin)

But he calls them saved.. Washed by the blood of CHrist, Sanctified and justified.

He is telling them also. work out your own salvation. Stop being babes.

NOT WOrk out to be saved.

That makes salvation a merited reward. not a gift of grace.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
This passage in context is to the gentile church, as apposed to the jewish church who was cut off.

Not induvidual people and their salvation.

try to read context. not just words taken out of context.


The context is do not be to proud and think we are better than the jews. If they were cut off (as a people) we can be cut off also (as a people)
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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This is the point I was trying to make with the scriptures I posted: saved now philosophy does not apply to scripture.
Yes it does. And I have quoted it to you already. 1 John says that believers should know that they have eternal life.

The topic is supposed to be about Savior & Salvation; note that Kenneth's verses are off topic -- no Savior & no salvation in them:


James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

crowns are rewards, not salvation


Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Mat 24 & 10 are about making it to the end of the Tribulation, not spiritual salvation. But according the eternal security,
the saved do all endure to the end.


Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Amen. Since our salvation is guaranteed, let us run the race for rewards.

Hebrews 10:36
Cast not away therefore your boldness, which hath great recompense of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, having done the will of God, ye may receive the promise.
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised [that is the reward, which is not salvation] don't stop there, go through 10:39

And we can be confident if we have trusted the Lord Jesus as Savior that we shall endure.
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. [keep going:] For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:
Again you didn't go through 6:9

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

And we do hold our confidence firm to the end, which proves our share in Christ!

2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.

Nothing here about salvation.

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

The message is part of the salvation process. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

Another passage on rewards, not salvation

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Passage on age mass movements of Jews & Gentiles, not individual salvation. Gentiles as a whole are called thou. Rom 11 begins & ends with election, and near the end: "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Passage about making it to the end of the Tribulation, not spiritual salvation.
However, by eternal security all the saved do endure to the end.


Using one scripture or a couple to defend your philosophy could easily be debated, but when scriptures are said by our Lord and then reiterated by the apostles then it can not be debated. For they all say the same thing.
None of your passages speak about salvation, except Mark 13, which is not about spiritual salvation but making it through the Tribulation. Also, none of your passages speak about the Savior. So they are irrelevant.
And they do not contradict the facts:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
This is not me, this what scripture says and I have posted many scriptures to show it.

No I am not fooling myself, I know how I will believe in a year because I will not stop believing in Jesus no matter what.
( They would have to prove Jesus to be just a false teacher, and show proof with out a shadow of a doubt: This will never happen )

Saying you may not believe in a year or more means you have no true faith in your belief.


How can I reject grace after it has already been given to me? and I actually have taken possession of it?


Do you listen to yourself? God gives me a gift does it ever stop being mine? it is ALWAYS MINE, He gave it freely. He did not put conditions on it or he will take it away, He gave it freely.

if I mistreat the gift I will suffer on earth, maybe even severe suffering (more severe than a non believer who is not a child) but the gift is still mine.




How can you say you know when yuo can not possibly know. You do not know what you will belive a year from now. let alone 20 years from now..

Your fooling yourself.