You are reciting what you have been taught, not what the bible teaches. I agree that salvation is a gift. I don't agree that once you receive the gift that you can't throw it away or lose it. The bible teaches against what you have been taught. You guys teach that God wont force you to take salvation, but once you take it, he will force you to keep it. That's not bible.
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E
No. Your the one who teaches against the bible.
God does not force you to keep it. those who have truly had it would never want to give it up. If they did, they could not have truly experienced it.
The greatest thing in the world and you experience it and want to give it up??
I do not think so. And it goes against ALL that God says he gives to his children.
God does not force you to keep it. those who have truly had it would never want to give it up. If they did, they could not have truly experienced it.
The greatest thing in the world and you experience it and want to give it up??
I do not think so. And it goes against ALL that God says he gives to his children.
This is exactly why Paul marvelled in Galatians 1:6. He was amazed at how soon they were "removed" from the grace of Christ unto "ANOTHER GOSPEL." It blew Paul's mind that they could be so easily removed from the truth, to false doctrine. That means that they did have the truth, but they were removed from it unto a lie.
E
dude, if your not going to show people the common courtesy to learn how to post so they can properly respond to you. Do not bother posting.
From what I remember, they are not a son? so if your son does not follow you. He is not your son? You do not even understand the kind of God you make him out to be. A human father shows more love to his disobedient kids than the father of heaven does? This is not what scripture says.
And yes they are children of God. It says to those who believe on his name. I can believe and have faith in him, yet not listen to him 100 % of the time. If I disobey my faith does that mean I no longer trust him, or believe he is my father?
Again (why do you refuse to answer)
Is a person saved or not. There is no inbetween!!
reasonable service.. I agree. Reasonable is not even close to a conditional service though.. Your right, we do see different,
Your all about works. I Am all about Gods love, grace and mercy to me a sinner.
From what I remember, they are not a son? so if your son does not follow you. He is not your son? You do not even understand the kind of God you make him out to be. A human father shows more love to his disobedient kids than the father of heaven does? This is not what scripture says.
And yes they are children of God. It says to those who believe on his name. I can believe and have faith in him, yet not listen to him 100 % of the time. If I disobey my faith does that mean I no longer trust him, or believe he is my father?
Again (why do you refuse to answer)
Is a person saved or not. There is no inbetween!!
reasonable service.. I agree. Reasonable is not even close to a conditional service though.. Your right, we do see different,
Your all about works. I Am all about Gods love, grace and mercy to me a sinner.
E
No. It says they knew of it. It never says they were saved by it
Knowledge and experience are not the same
John and paul make it clear. those who are truely saved will never walk away, if they have, they were never saved.
You can;t claim you have faith in one gospel. and be so easily turned to a different gospel. Your work does not match your claim.
Knowledge and experience are not the same
John and paul make it clear. those who are truely saved will never walk away, if they have, they were never saved.
You can;t claim you have faith in one gospel. and be so easily turned to a different gospel. Your work does not match your claim.
K
Galatians 1:6-7
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
Which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
This scripture shows clearly that they were called by Christ, so they were apart of us, but then turned to a perverted version of the gospel which is misleading.
This is just one of many that talk about ones turning/falling/walking away from the gospel they once had a share in.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
Which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
This scripture shows clearly that they were called by Christ, so they were apart of us, but then turned to a perverted version of the gospel which is misleading.
This is just one of many that talk about ones turning/falling/walking away from the gospel they once had a share in.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
That's what YOU say, not the bible. You are giving your human reasoning but the bible contradicts you. You are saying that they were NOT SAVED BY THE GOSPEL?!?! Again I say, you are willfully ignorant. You are literally ignoring the scripture. He is writing to THE CHURCH OF GALATIA! These are BELIEVERS!
If you eternal security guys are right, then there is no need for the rest of the bible except for the gospels. There is no need for all of the admonition about living right, keeping your self clean, being careful not to fall away, etc. Cause once you accept the gift, its over. Its a done deal. You can't lose it no matter how much you sin after receiving it. You can go on a murder spree afterwards and still get into heaven. Oh i know what you are going to say, "After you are saved, you won't want to sin." Well you may not want to, but you will! And if you don't repent of that sin, you going to hell. It's so sad to see you guys completely deceived into thinking that. Its going to be a sad day when you stand before God and all that sin comes dragging behind you.
here is more evidence of babbling
Originally Posted by apostolic862004
This is exactly why Paul marvelled in Galatians 1:6. He was amazed at how soon they were "removed" from the grace of Christ unto "ANOTHER GOSPEL." It blew Paul's mind that they could be so easily removed from the truth, to false doctrine. That means that they did have the truth, but they were removed from it unto a lie.
the scripture is clear...we are saved by grace ...they were removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ ...how can you say they were not saved
now you are talking about work... which you claim is trying to earn salvation.
where is your supporting scripture...as far as the scripture goes we are saved by grace God does not partly save..... therefore the truly save theory is bogus ..you are either saved or not.Men do draw back.
This is exactly why Paul marvelled in Galatians 1:6. He was amazed at how soon they were "removed" from the grace of Christ unto "ANOTHER GOSPEL." It blew Paul's mind that they could be so easily removed from the truth, to false doctrine. That means that they did have the truth, but they were removed from it unto a lie.
now you are talking about work... which you claim is trying to earn salvation.
where is your supporting scripture...as far as the scripture goes we are saved by grace God does not partly save..... therefore the truly save theory is bogus ..you are either saved or not.Men do draw back.
L
I adopted a child, but they caused a fight with one of my other children, so I disowned them.
Don't worry, I'll readopt them if they say sorry.
I am doing a bonfire next week, and I am burning all this wood I have from a tree that fell. I found one branch, and decided to save it from being burned so I could use it for a different purpose.
If I end up burning it next week, was it ever really saved in the 1st place? Nope.
The branch is not truely saved until the fire is done, and it has not gotten thrown in.
It is unBiblical to say that a person whom judgement is passed over, can then be judged again.
Don't worry, I'll readopt them if they say sorry.
I am doing a bonfire next week, and I am burning all this wood I have from a tree that fell. I found one branch, and decided to save it from being burned so I could use it for a different purpose.
If I end up burning it next week, was it ever really saved in the 1st place? Nope.
The branch is not truely saved until the fire is done, and it has not gotten thrown in.
It is unBiblical to say that a person whom judgement is passed over, can then be judged again.
Last edited by a moderator:
L
You are missing the point then. Reexamine the Scriptures, and you will find that our HOPE is in the Day of Salvation at the Lord's coming.
I am saved now, because God has promised to save me. To Him there is no time. What He says is present and true.
The WORK of Salvation was completed in the sacrifice of Christ, but it is enacted when He returns.
I am saved now, because God has promised to save me. To Him there is no time. What He says is present and true.
The WORK of Salvation was completed in the sacrifice of Christ, but it is enacted when He returns.
Falsehood & strawman doesn't refute eternal security
We leave aside the straw man and turn attention to what the Word says, which is what counts.
Actually by refusing to trust Christ as Savior & reducing Him to a "chance-giver," you ensure that you sin big time and that Rom 1-3 applies to you.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.
That is the simple truth.
1 John 2 tells us that apostates were never saved
.
The entire 8th chapter of Rom is absolute truth.
The words lose and salvation never occur together in any verse in the Bible. There is no losing of salvation in the Bible. Salvation is about a loving Savior saving His people from their sin & giving them eternal life.
The passage is not about love for man, but for those who are in Christ Jesus, that special love that God has for them.
Things present and things to come includes sins.
\
Noticeably absent from that verse is Savior & Salvation. The way to be saved, BTW, is to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior (not "chance-giver"). As in other passages, you have to keep reading to 10:39:
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Your up & saying it proves nothing. Actually the satanic lie is that the Lord Jesus does not save His people from their sins, and that He is not a Savior, but a "chance giver."
Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Golden Unbreakable Chain:
foreknew>foreordained>called>justified>glorified
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
-1 Pet 1
We leave aside the straw man and turn attention to what the Word says, which is what counts.
Actually by refusing to trust Christ as Savior & reducing Him to a "chance-giver," you ensure that you sin big time and that Rom 1-3 applies to you.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.
That is the simple truth.
1 John 2 tells us that apostates were never saved
.
The entire 8th chapter of Rom is absolute truth.
The words lose and salvation never occur together in any verse in the Bible. There is no losing of salvation in the Bible. Salvation is about a loving Savior saving His people from their sin & giving them eternal life.
The passage is not about love for man, but for those who are in Christ Jesus, that special love that God has for them.
Things present and things to come includes sins.
\
Noticeably absent from that verse is Savior & Salvation. The way to be saved, BTW, is to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior (not "chance-giver"). As in other passages, you have to keep reading to 10:39:
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Your up & saying it proves nothing. Actually the satanic lie is that the Lord Jesus does not save His people from their sins, and that He is not a Savior, but a "chance giver."
Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Golden Unbreakable Chain:
foreknew>foreordained>called>justified>glorified
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
-1 Pet 1
God gave you the power to become a son ...so God does not stop you from being a son. It is up to you he says those who follow the spirit they are sons. It is obvious those who don't follow the spirit they are not sons. your reasoning says ...
what spirit are you following certainly not the spirit of Christ.
what spirit are you following certainly not the spirit of Christ.
E
He is writting to everyone in the church of galatia. You assume they are all saved. I do not believe any church has people who are all saved. I believe (as paul said) there are many impostors.
What I say is not in the bible?
So eternal life is not eternal? but is conditional?
A grace gift is not a gift. But a downpayment for your work (whatever work that may be)
And Again, John said they would never have walked away if they were truly of us (saved) your denying his words.
What I say is not in the bible?
So eternal life is not eternal? but is conditional?
A grace gift is not a gift. But a downpayment for your work (whatever work that may be)
And Again, John said they would never have walked away if they were truly of us (saved) your denying his words.
K
This is the point I was trying to make with the scriptures I posted: saved now philosophy does not apply to scripture.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Using one scripture or a couple to defend your philosophy could easily be debated, but when scriptures are said by our Lord and then reiterated by the apostles then it can not be debated. For they all say the same thing.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Using one scripture or a couple to defend your philosophy could easily be debated, but when scriptures are said by our Lord and then reiterated by the apostles then it can not be debated. For they all say the same thing.