ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

plaintalk · Apr 9, 2016

One baptism #259
Repentance actually "precedes" believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). The church of Christ erroneously reverses the scriptural order of repentance/faith.
Response:
And that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47)
If repentance for the forgiveness of sins was first proclaimed in His name beginning at Jerusalem, we might suppose that those who are speaking of it would refer to Acts 2 where that proclamation took place. But in this case, they do not. Why? Ask them. As we read this account, we find that when they heard the message (v. 37) they were pierced to the heart. Did the believe? The record sounds like they did. They were made sorrowful, and that sorrow was a godly sorrow which would lead to their repentance. (2 Cor. 7: 10) When they asked what they should do, they were commanded to repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. We should notice at least three things; (1) they apparently believed and they were not saved; they were still dead in their sins and trespasses. (2) Their repentance followed their belief contrary to the statement found in #259. (3) Receiving the Spirit was contingent upon faith, repentance and baptism. (Acts 5: 32; John 7: 39)
Are we surprised they were not saved at the moment of faith? Not really, because John 1: 12, 13 tells us that when one receives Christ by believing in his name we are begotten by God but not born again into God’s family. We become children of God by faith when we are baptized into Christ. (Gal. 3: 26, 27) We receive Jesus by believing in His name; He receives us when we are baptized into Christ.
Are we surprised that repentance follows faith? Not really, why would we change our minds if we did not believe in God? Solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20: 21 In this case we have two classes of individuals, the Jews already believed in God and needed to repent. The Gentiles did not believe in Christ, but if they should, they would also need to repent. Actually this verse confirms the order of events in Acts 2. God bless.

mailmandan · Apr 9, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Yet one precedes the other (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-6; Genesis 22; James 2:21-23). Being justified by works (shown to be righteous) does not precede being justified by faith (accounted as righteous). Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

In other words: It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 4:2-6; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* This is the proper balance of faith and works that works salvationists have out of balance. Faith is the root and good works are the fruit of salvation.

I spend many hours defending the gospel of Christ, which is better than spending many hours perverting the gospel of Christ. Inverse legalism? Yeah right. I'm a BELIEVER, not a legalist of any kind. "Works salvationists" are legalists.

I teach people to get water baptized AFTER they have been saved through faith (Acts 10:43-47) and not to become saved, as legalists in the Roman Catholic church, the Mormon church, and the church of Christ (just to name a few) teach. I was water baptized AFTER I was saved through faith in Christ. Faith in Christ alone saves (Ephesians 2:8,9), not faith in "water and works."

GOD wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts. Refusing to believe the gospel then getting water baptized in an effort to become saved is not obedience to His voice. Defending the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and refusing to pervert the gospel by "adding works to it" is not straining at theological gnats. You should know the difference.

mailmandan · Apr 10, 2016

plaintalk said:

Amen! Yet you are still fighting the truth.

Who are the righteous? Those already saved. There is a difference between being saved by/through faith (then after faith is established and one is saved) the righteous person lives by faith. You still don't understand the difference between "saved by faith" and "living by faith" AFTERWARDS. You erroneously equate living by faith with saved by works.

Notice they were living by faith BECAUSE they were God's people and not in order to become God's people. Faith is established FIRST and then the righteous live by faith. Living out our faith does not equate to salvation by works.

Faith is the root and works are the fruit. Faith is not defined as works. The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation*; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)." The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19 or also include trust and reliance in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief/faith (to one degree or the other) results in actions appropriate to the belief (all Christians are fruitful, but not all Christians are equally fruitful) but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief/faith. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Obedience which follows is WORKS. We are saved by grace through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2;8,9).

Yes, his obedience was the PROOF of his faith, but not the origin of it. Abraham was already saved many years before he offered up Isaac on the altar when he believed God and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3). James said the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. ABRAHAM WAS ALREADY SAVED MANY YEARS BEFORE GENESIS 22.

We don't even receive Christ through faith until we first repent so how can repent be a test of faith when faith is not yet established until after we repent? In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

We obey Jesus Christ by choosing to repent and believe the gospel, we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ and receive cleansing from sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:31-32; Romans 1:16; Acts 10:43; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 26:18; Romans 3:24-26).

Hebrews 10:22 in the NASB reads - let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. *Notice the order. Reference to this verse as proving regeneration, or the new birth, by water baptism ignores the point of the contrasting of that sprinkling which affects the heart, removing from it an evil conscience, and that washing of the body with pure water. It is the sprinkling (with the Blood of Christ- Hebrews 9:14; I Peter 1:2) which touches the heart. The washing of pure water affects the body. Paul was careful to distinguish between an outward circumcision, which was of the flesh (Romans 2:28-29) and an inward circumcision, which was of the heart. The true Jew, the true child of Abraham (and therefore the true Christian) has the inward circumcision of the heart and this is accomplished by the "sprinkling of the blood of Christ" (I Peter 1:2), not by the ordinance of water baptism.

Yes, praise God for His goodness and mercy! Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. This refers to spiritual washing/purification of the soul and not water baptism.

What you are teaching IS salvation by works, yet sadly, you don't even realize it.

I pray to God to open your heart to the truth. You need to deny yourself and your self righteous works system and repent and believe the gospel.

mailmandan · Apr 10, 2016

plaintalk said:

Amen! Yet you continue to fight against the truth for the sake of your biased church doctrine. It's called PRIDE.

*What happened to baptism in Luke 24:47?

Luke 24:47 says repentance and remission of sins. *No mention of baptism. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. In Acts 5:31, we read - ..repentance to Israel and remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? *Perfect Harmony

What exactly did they believe at this point? They believed "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him. *That is not saving belief/faith yet. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel. *Here is where you error: In regards to belief/faith, people who attend the churches of Christ often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of belief/faith which is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and most cannot distinguish between mere intellectual belief or assent from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. They will cite that "even the devils believe" (from James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of devils" is the same as any other faith "except" that the faith of devils lacks any moral or religious good works. You cannot grasp this DEEPER faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. *This explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

They needed to repent (change their minds) and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to become saved, just as we saw in Acts 11:17 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47) and in verse 18, we see this was referred to as repentance unto life. So believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the new direction of this change of mind in repentance. Those who repent choose to believe and those who believe have already repented. *Two sides to the same coin. And once again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

They merely believed that they were guilty of crucifying their Messiah, but they had not yet believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were not saved. They needed to repent first, then believe unto salvation.

Their repentance followed their mental assent belief that they were guilty of crucifying their Messiah, but that is not saving belief yet. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel. Repentance precedes saving belief (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) contrary to your confusion about their belief in Acts 2:37. *Notice in Acts 2:37, they asked, "what shall we do?" In Acts 16:30, the question asked was, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer in verse 31 was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." *Fits perfectly with Acts 11:17,18. In Acts 5:31, baptism is not even mentioned and baptism is not the act of obedience that causes us to receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:32. Go back and read Acts 11:17,18 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ/repentance unto life and this was BEFORE they were water baptized (Acts 10:43-47).

*Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

What they believed at that moment before they repented and believed the gospel was not saving faith. Are we surprised that you don't understand the difference between "mental assent" belief that they were guilty of crucifying their Messiah and saving faith in Christ? I'm not surprised at all.

Now you go and twist John 1:12-13 in order to try and make it fit your erroneous interpretation of Acts 2:37. *Error begets error. We are given the right to become children of God (which means we actually do become children of God) when we believe in His name. We also see in 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.. Yet you say those who believe in His name are not born again into God's family, but John tells us differently.

That's not what Paul said. You rewrite the Bible to make it fit your church doctrine. Paul clearly said that we are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (.) PERIOD! End of sentence and thought on how we become children of God.

Next sentence, next thought - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourselves with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses. *You need to rightly divide the word of truth.

Next sentence, next thought. Notice in Galatians 3:27, that those who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Now for the word “enduo” (put on). This word also appears in Romans 13:14 where we read, “But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill it’s lusts.” This exhortation is not to a sinner, telling him to be baptized to “put on” Christ, but it is written to Christians. Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to “put on” Christ. To “put on” Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we “put on” Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if we must “put on” Christ to be saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also “put on” Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13:14). Right? Let’s be consistent. We are water baptized BECAUSE we are already children of God through faith (Galatians 3:26), not to become children of God. *We are also Spirit baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) not water baptized.

That's what Campbellism says, but that's not what the Bible says. Your doctrine is completely flawed. You say we receive Jesus by believing in His name, yet we still remain lost. That's not what John 1:12 says or 1 John 5:13. Christ receives us through Spirit baptism, not water baptism. You continue to confuse the PICTURE with the reality.

Repentance actually DOES NOT follow faith, but I'm not surprised that you are confused, since faith to you is nothing more than "mental assent" belief and your trust and reliance is in "water and works" for salvation. You reverse the scriptural order of repentance and faith.

Acts 20:21 does not merely say "believe in God" it says FAITH IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. That is DEEPER than merely believing in the existence of God. Are you really that confused? This is not hard to understand. The Jews who believed in the existence of God needed to repent and the new direction of this change of mind in repentance is FAITH IN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Your argument does not confirm the order of events in Acts 2 because their belief in Acts 2:37 was merely mental assent that they were guilty of crucifying their Messiah. They still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in order to become saved. Wow! It just amazes me how you can deny the crystal clear truth!

Again, I pray to God to open your heart to the truth. You need to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel.

plaintalk · Apr 11, 2016

One Baptism #259
Water baptism FOLLOWS repentance/faith/salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31).
Response:
And he shall speak words to you by which you will be save, you and all your household. (Acts 11: 14)
But we believe that we are save through the grace of Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are. (Acts 15: 11)
When was Cornelius saved? It’s a little ambiguous but we learn two things; (1) he was saved as a result of the words of Peter and (2) he was saved by grace in the same way we all are.
According to the record, Peter spoke two times; the first time was in Acts 10: 34-44 and the second was Acts 10: 46- 48) In the first instance he preached the gospel and in the second he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus our Lord. He who has believed the gospel and has been baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16: 15, 16)
Cornelius and his household were saved by the grace of our Lord in the same way that all men are. What did this entail? They heard the word (Acts 10: 33), the Holy Spirit fell on them, received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10: 44), spoke in tongues (Acts 10: 46), baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 10: 47), received the word (Acts 11: 1), baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11: 16), repentance Acts 11: 18), believed (Acts 15: 7), cleansed by faith (Acts 15: 9) With the exception of speaking with tongues, this is how we are all saved.
What was different about the conversion of Cornelius and his people? The order of events was changed to accomplish His specific purpose, to bring the Gentiles into the family of God. IMO this order of events is not stipulated for others.
Is speaking in tongues directly related to salvation today? IMO it is not; God used it in this instance to immediately confirm the gift of the Holy Spirit; but not all people, even at that time spoke with tongues (1 Cor. 12: 30); the gift was to cease (1 Cor. 13: 8); the reception of the Holy Spirit is confirmed by the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Gal. 5: 22, 23)
Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household. (Acts 16: 30, 31) These word were spoke to unbelievers as opposed to Acts 2: 38, 39, which was spoken to believers. When we receive Jesus as Lord, we commit ourselves to obey Him. (Matt. 7: 21- 23) The jailer performed works of repentance by washing the wounds of Paul and Silas that very hour of the night and then they were immediately baptized, set food before them and rejoiced greatly having believed. (Acts 16: 34) To believe in Jesus includes repentance and baptism. Cornelius and the jailer and everyone else are saved by grace of God through faith which works in love and hope with works of faith to perfect our faith. We are saved by a perfected faith. God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 11, 2016

One baptism #259
Obedience which follows saving faith in Christ and is produced out of faith is WORKS and we are not saved by works. When will you finally understand?
Response:
You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. (James 2: 24)
True, we are not saved by works of the law (Gal. 2: 16) and deeds which we have done in righteousness (Titus 3: 5), but James tells us that there are works which justify. Jesus tells us we are saved by belief and baptism (Mark 16: 15, 16), Peter tells us we are saved by calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 2: 21) and baptism (1 Peter 3: 21), Paul tells that we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2: 8), repentance (2 Cor. 7: 10), calling on the name of the Lord, confessing Christ (Rom. 10: 9- 15) the washing of regeneration (Titus 3: 5), hope (Rom. 8: 24); the Hebrew writer tells us that we are save d by obedience (Heb. 5: 9)
An honest, enquiring mind will understand that two types of works are under discussion, those that save and those that do not. God bless

plaintalk · Apr 11, 2016

One baptism # 259
Did Jesus say there are several works of faith that save in John 6:29, after the Jews asked Him what they might do to work the works (plural) of God? No. Jesus answered, this is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent. Plain and simple.
Calling on the name of the Lord is not an additional requirement to become saved after faith. When you call upon the name of the Lord you trust in Him to come to your aid. Inherent in your calling is the essential faith that He can and will save you. So, in essence, to call on the name of the Lord unto salvation is to call upon Him in complete trust for Him to save you.
Response:
IMO there are three levels of faith identified in Scriptures, the last of which is saving faith or perfected faith. When we receive Jesus by believing in His name we are begotten by God but that faith is not complete, we are not children of God at that point. When we obey God our faith is perfected (James 2: 22) and becomes a purifying, saving faith. This faith is mingled with love and hope and is perfected by the obedience of faith. (1 John 2: 3-5) God bless.
How shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? (Rom. 10: 14) This is a rhetorical question the answer is plain and simple, they can’t. Like it or not, we must believe in God before we call upon the name of the Lord. This tells us that we are not saved at the first moment of believe. Why would we call on the name of the lord to be saved is we are already saved at the first moment of belief. Some try to tell us that this faith is mental assent, believing with the mind but not the heart. This is just spin because one must believe with all their heart to obey God. (Acts 8: 37) In Paul’s experience calling on the name of the Lord is associated with baptism not belief. And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 22: 16) At that time, Paul was a believer who had been praying and fasting for three days but he was still in his sin. Some tell us that a more precise interpretation would be, having called on the name of the Lord, but even this does not tell us why Paul was still in his sins. Peter and the NASB interpretation provide a more satisfactory answer, baptism is an appeal to God to give us a good conscience as He has promised. (1 Peter 3: 21) Yes, the three thousand believers at Pentecost called on the name of the Lord by repenting and being baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 2: 21, 37-39) God bless

plaintalk · Apr 11, 2016

One baptism #259
This is not a work that we do, but that the Holy Spirit does when we receive spiritual washing/purification of the soul at the moment we are saved when we believe the gospel.
Response:
When we read John 1: 12, 13, we realize that we do not become children of God at the moment we receive Jesus by believing in His name. We are begotten by God, the word is implanted in our hearts, but we are not born again, born of water and Spirit. Galatians 3: 26, 27 tells us that we become children of God by faith for all of us who were baptized into Christ have clothed ourselves with Christ. That is the attributes of Christ have been reckoned to us by God. These attributes include redemption, life, righteousness and sonship and indeed all spiritual blessings. (Eph. 1: 3) Since Jesus is the Son of God , we are adopted into the family by virtue of being baptized into Christ by faith. This is the work of God. (1Cor. 1: 30) Works of faith are not our works, they are “of faith” and thus are works of God. (John 6: 29)
When we obey Christ by repentance and baptism, we are cleansed by the washing with water by the word, our sins are washed away because obedience perfects are faith; when we obey, our hearts are sprinkled clean with the blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1: 2; Heb. 9: 14; 10: 22) As our bodies are washed with pure water, our hearts are sprinkled clean by the blood of our Savior. God bless.

mailmandan · Apr 11, 2016

plaintalk said:

I'm sorry plain talk, but it's painfully obvious to me that you are thoroughly indoctrinated into Campbellism and are blinded by the god of this world. You stubbornly REFUSE to BELIEVE the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). I have already refuted your arguments from articles that you continue to "parrot off" from this post and several other posts numerous times throughout this thread and in other threads, but sadly, you continue to REFUSE to ACCEPT the truth.

If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the numerous posts that I have already shared with you in this thread and in other threads. If accommodating your biased church doctrine is the only thing that you are interested in, then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times that I share it with you, so I see no point in continuing to waste my time beating a dead horse. It just amazes me to see just how many people are deceived by false religions and cults!

Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth, but you must be willing to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel. All I can do is continue to pray for you.

plaintalk · Apr 12, 2016

One Baptism #259
I did not redefine anything. You are just very confused because of your church of Christ indoctrination. I certainly did not redefine the gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). You "add" works to the gospel of Christ, which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior.

We don't merely assent to these three facts, as if all we do is believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened." We must also trust exclusively in what happened as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, apart from supplemental works.
Amen! We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16).
Response:
Sure you have. You tell us that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. I find that impossible to accept for the following reasons.
(1) We are required to not only believe the gospel (Rom. 1: 16) but to obey the gospel. (2Thess. 1: 8, 9)
(2) The gospel is, “For I delivered to you as of first importance, what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.” (1 Cor. 15: 3, 4)
(3) We believe the gospel when we assent to the truth of the above statement.
(4) We obey the gospel when we are baptized into Christ and are baptized into His death. Our old self is crucified with him so that our body of sin might be done away with. (Rom. 6; 3-6) We obey the gospel by dying not believing. WE OBEY THE GOSPEL BY DYING, NOT BY BELIEVING.
(5) When we obey that form of doctrine we are freed from sin (Rom. 6: 17, 18); when we die we are freed from sin (Rom. 6: 7); therefore obeying that form of doctrine is equivalent with dying.
(6) However they did not all heed the glad tidings, for Isiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” (Rom.10: 16) NASB This verse does not equate obeying the gospel with believing; it states they did not obey the gospel because they did not believe. (Heb. 3: 18, 19)
(7) We do not come to faith by the exercise of our will. (John 1: 12, 13) Faith is a work of God (John 6: 29), by grace (Acts 18: 27), a gift (Rom. 12: 3), received when God opens the heart to respond (Acts 16: 14)
Is it necessary to die with Christ? Is it necessary to die to the old self? Is it necessary to be buried in baptism with him so that we might arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection? You tell us that calling on the name of the Lord and repentance are merely aspects of faith. You diminish and misunderstand baptism which is one of the seven pillars of the unity of the Spirit and tell us that it is a post-salvation event, not “absolutely essential.”
We believe that Jesus, not the Spirit, died for our sins, was buried and arose on the third day. We are not washed by the Spirit; we are washed in water and the blood of the Lamb. This is the gospel which we must believe, but we trust in the gospel when we, ourselves, die with Him, are buried with Him and arise with Him. This is accomplished through baptism as ordained by God, not men. Are we really trusting in the gospel until we are willing to invest in it through obedience? God bless.

AboundingGrace · Apr 12, 2016

SeaBass said:

I believe that the text is referring to the baptism unto salvation into the family of God, through Jesus Christ. The initial occurrence is spiritual, and water baptism is the physical.

see Acts 8:34-38. There was water baptism involved, but the man had to hear the gospel, and believe first, believing is the spiritual part, see also Jn.1:12 and 1 Pet.1:22-25.

plaintalk · Apr 13, 2016

One Baptism # 259
Water baptism is the PICTURE, but not the reality. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel BEFORE we are water baptized. You still confuse the picture with the reality.
Again, water baptism is the PICTURE, but not the reality. Until you figure this out, you will remain confused. We are not literally water baptized into the body of Christ, just as the Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses (1 Corinthians 10:2). Spirit baptism is the reality in which by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13); not to be confused with water baptism. This remains your achilles heel.
Response:
This is realty. Jesus instructed His disciples to make disciples of all nations by baptizing them and teaching them. Daniel B. Wallace in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pg. 645 says this about this passage, “Finally, the other two participles (Baptizontes, Didaskontes) should not be taken at attendant circumstance. First, they do not fit the normal pattern for attendant circumstance participles (they are present tense and follow the main verb). And second, they obviously make good sense as participles of the means i.e., the means by which the disciples were to make disciples was to baptize then to teach.”

This is reality. Jesus said, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.” (Mark 16: 15, 16)

This is reality. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (Acts 2: 37- 39)
These passages cannot simply be ignored in determining the meaning of “the one baptism.” Neither should we ignore 1 Cor. 12: 13, “For by (in) one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greek, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” We need both, the baptism in the name of Christ and the baptism with the Spirit, to fulfill the new birth.,
IMO opinion the “one baptism” is the baptism in water in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sins and the baptism in the Spirit by Jesus our Lord. Your attempt to cast baptism merely as a “picture” and a non- reality is tragic and simply wrong. The language you us is not biblical. True, the washing in water is symbolic of the washing in the blood of Christ, however not of the baptism in the Spirit; it is much more than that. It is how our faith and love are perfected by obedience and deemed authentic by God; it is how we die with Christ, are buried in baptism with Him so that we might share with Him in; we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit; we become disciples; we are saved; we are baptized into Christ, we become sons of God, we pass from death to life. God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 13, 2016

One baptism # 259
Just like in John 3:36, works salvationists run with the word "obey" and try to turn it into salvation by works. Obey the Son does not mean do extra works for Him, but obey by believing. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeysthe Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said.
Response:
There are undoubtedly many who take a legalistic approach to the Scriptures. I will never forget, as long as God allows my mind to function, a class in which the teacher was maintaining that obedience was the greatest virtue a Christian could possess. When it was suggested that perhaps that distinction belonged to “love,” he said, “Love, love, love, I am sick and tired of hearing about love.” And he was, but God alone will judge us.

You see the use of the terms “obey” and “obedience” do not automatically throw us into the legalistic camp. The “kicker” is “why are we obeying?” If we are obeying because we believe that thereby we can be righteous before God, based upon our works or our performance, then the term “legalist” would be justified. If however we obey out of faith, hope and love, these three, the greatest being love, with the realization that our faith is only complete when it obeys, then IMO that is not legalism. We do not earn or merit salvation, it is a gift of God, given to those who through faith, hope and love are struggling to obey. The Spirit is working within us to renew us, to bring our lives onto conformity with that which He has already reckoned to us in Christ.

Similarly, we have the term, “works.” I am truly sorry that you do not understand the difference between “works of faith” and “works of law.” “Works of faith” are based upon faith in God, motivated by love and performed to complete our faith. “Works of the law” are based on performance (Gal. 3: 12) which is in reality faith in ourselves and our abilities to keep His commandments, motivated by fear, pride, strife, etc. with the purpose of meriting righteousness. God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 13, 2016

One Baptism #
Here is water baptism in an easy 3 minute video....only blood washes our sins away - not water...

Response:
Evidently that is not the whole story because we can read of water washing away sin (Acts 22: 16) and being cleansed by water (Eph. 5: 26) True, only blood washes away sin, but evidently God thought we needed something visible and tangible so that we might have full assurance that the invisible, intangible, cleansing by blood is really taking place. God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 13, 2016

One Baptism #263
God is not dependent on you, He know your faith was real before time began, and chose to predestine you as a son of God before time even began.
Response:
Nevertheless, he told Abraham after he was about to offer Isaac, "for now I know that you fear God." (Gen 22: 12) This was said for Abraham's benefit and ours. When we obey God we know that our faith is perfected or completed and is deemed authentic by God. How do we know? because He said so. (James 2: 20- 24) God bless

plaintalk · Apr 13, 2016

One baptism #266
We become children of God and are saved the moment that we believe in His name (John 1:12; 1 John 5:13).
Response:
Please read it again. But as many as received Him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name. (John 1: 12)
(1) “The right to become children of God”, indicates that becoming a child of God is in the future.
(2) The next verse, verse 13, indicates that they were begotten by God at that time. A refresher course in the “birds and the bees” might be helpful.
(3) We become children of God through faith when we are baptized into Christ, as we are clothed with Christ, including sonship. (Gal. 3: 26, 27)
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5: 13)
(1) Life is in the Son and by faith we are baptized into Christ. (1 John 5: 11; Gal. 3: 26, 27)
(2) Those that receive the word are baptized. (Acts 2: 41)
God bless.

roaringkitten · Apr 13, 2016

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Rev 1:5

plaintalk · Apr 14, 2016

One baptism #266
Repentance actually "precedes" believe/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20;21). *Why do you continue to ignore these passages of scripture?
IMO they are irrelevant to any discussion of the order of faith/ repentance for the forgiveness of sins. The Scriptures tell us that repentance in the name of Christ was proclaimed to all nations, beginning form Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47) This happened on the first Pentecost after the resurrection and ascension of our Lord. If you were serious you would have begun there, but you completely ignored it. (Acts 2)
(1) Peter said that the 3,000 could know for certain that God had made Jesus both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified. V. 36
(2) when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, they believed and asked what should they do? V. 37
(3) They were commanded to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. V. 38 This is the first time after Luke 24: 47 that people were commanded to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ.
(4) Please note that repentance followed their belief!
(5) This command is unique because it involves a promise (V. 39) to all nations, Jews and Gentiles, as many as God shall call to Himself.
(6) A short time later Peter repeats this command. Repent therefore and return that your sins may be wiped away; in order that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3: 19)
(7) In Acts 17: 30 God declares to all men, everywhere, to repent.
(8) "For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him" (Matt. 21:32) KJV This appears to be speaking of the failure to repent for disbelieving John. This is not repentance in the name of Christ because that had not yet been proclaimed.
(9) And saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent and believe in the gospel. (Mark 1: 15) These believed in God so it would be entirely appropriate for them to repent toward God then believe in the gospel, Their repentance and belief were directed at different entities. This is not the repentance in the name of Christ
(10) Solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20; 21) While the language of Acts 20:21 is spoken concerning both Jews and Greeks, the principle involved is the same. Paul testified "repentance toward God" and "faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." The repentance and the faith were not directed toward the same person. It was not "repentance toward God" and "faith toward God." Neither was it "repentance toward Christ" and "faith toward Christ." But it was "Repentance toward God" and "faith toward Christ." When the repentance and faith are directed toward the same person, the repentance is never mentioned before faith.
(11) Godly sorrow produces repentance. (2 Cor. 7: 10) Common sense tells us that us that we must believe in God first, before we can have the sorrow that produces repentance.
(12) The kindness of God leads us to repentance. (Rom. 2: 4) We must believe in God first, before His kindness leads us to repent.
God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 14, 2016

One Baptism # 266
"James did not say anything about "repentance and baptism" being the works that perfect our faith in James chapter 2. In James 2:15-16, James mentions the work of giving a brother or sister who is naked and destitute of daily food the things which are needed for the body and in James 2:21, James mentions the work of Abraham offering up Isaac on the altar. You have "added" your own personal commentary to James chapter 2." # 266
Response:
We are all saved in the same way. In Acts 2 the way of salvation for all people, as many as the Lord our God shall to himself was revealed for the first time. When they believed, they were pierced to the heart but they were not saved, however, as they were still in their sin. Their faith was not complete. They asked, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Something was missing. Something was lacking. Peter said repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Those that received the word were baptized. (Acts 2: 41) Obedience is the test of faith; in Abraham’s case the obedience God required was to offer up Isaac; in Noah’s case the obedience God required was to build an ark; in our case the test of our faith is the obedience that God requires of all men.
James is explaining to us how obedience, works of faith, completes or perfects our faith. Faith works with the works of faith God has appointed, perfecting our faith. Hebrews 11 shows us that this has always been the case: before the law, during the law and now after the law. God has given us these works of faith so that we might have the full assurance of faith the he is keeping His promise, as our bodies are washed with pure water, He is sprinkling clean our hearts form an evil conscience. (Heb. 10: 22) IMO I have not “added” anything God has not commanded. The love of God is perfected by keeping His commandments (1 John 2: 5) and faith is perfected by works of faith. (James 2: 22) God bless.

plaintalk · Apr 15, 2016

One Baptism #267
We become children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Response:
Yes, we become children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. But don't stop there if you want the whole story. The very next verse tells how that is accomplished. "For you all are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ Jesus clothed yourselves with Christ." This clothing with Christ includes life, righteousness and sonship and much more. God bless

ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

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