ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

plaintalk · Feb 27, 2017

Mailmandan writes;
"Repentance follows "mental assent" belief but precedes saving belief in Christ. You reverse the scriptural order of repentance and saving belief/faith. To the contrary we find:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order."
Response:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse (repent) afterward so as to believe him. (Matt. 21: 32)
The word that is translated “repent” in some versions is metamelomai and according to Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich means simply to change one’s mind. Thus Jesus is telling the Pharisees that they did not even change their mind, much less repent in the deeper spiritual sense, when they saw the changes brought about in the tax collectors and prostitutes who did believe John the Baptist and his message. IMO this is not speaking of the repentance for the forgiveness of sins, proclaimed in the name of Jesus, first in Jerusalem after the resurrection (Luke 24: 47).

[SUP]15 [/SUP]and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1: 15)
In this verse Jesus is speaking to the Jews of Galilee; these people did believe in God but they did not believe the gospel.
Repentance for the forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus began to be preached at Jerusalem on the first Pentecost after the resurrection of our Lord. (Acts 2: 38) Those that are truly interested in finding the order of events in the way of salvation should begin there at Acts 2. Those who are attempting to support their agenda will continue to try to find examples that contradict. In this verse these Jews were already believers in God. This is not an example of repentance before belief in God, it is speaking of belief in the gospel.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20: 21)
In this verse, two groups of people are identified, Jews and Greeks. The Jews were believers in God, thus the repentance that is urged upon them follows belief in God as it normally does. The Greeks did not believe in God, they are urged to believe first, repentance would follow that belief as it does in Acts 2. The kindness of God leads one to repentance. (Romans 2: 4) The kindness of God could hardly lead to repentance if you did not first believe in God. Godly sorrow leads one to repent, you cannot experience godly sorrow if you do not first believe in God. (2 Cor. 7: 10)

IMO repentance, baptism in the name of Christ, calling on the name of the Lord and confessing His name before men are all works of faith (1 Thess. 1: 3) and all proceed from faith in God. (Acts 8: 37, 38)
Faith is our introduction into the grace of God (Rom. 5: 2) not repentance.
If repentance precedes faith in God then, of course, it cannot be of faith, and if it is not of faith it would be based on performance. Both faith and repentance, and all works of faith, are gifts from God. (Rom. 12: 3; Acts 11: 18); salvation is not of ourselves. God. bless.

mailmandan · Feb 27, 2017

plaintalk said:

Amen! Is the truth starting to sink in yet or are you still fighting against the truth?

The Pharisees did not repent and believe John about the way of righteousness and remained lost. Unfortunately, I see that you are still fighting against the truth.

Hmm... does that sound familiar?

You are stuck on your biased misinterpretation of Acts 2.

Now read Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9.

I had previously explained to you that the Jews in Acts 2 believed in God and they also finally came to believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him (Acts 2:37) yet that is not saving faith in Christ yet. They still needed to repent "change their mind" and trust exclusively in Christ for salvation and so do you.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20: 21)

Their repentance followed their belief in God, yet preceded their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Of course you must first believe in the existence of God before you can repent and believe the gospel/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

You are still mixed up. Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. You are trying to turn work "of" faith into this work "is" faith. You make no distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of our faith. Repentance precedes faith and we call on the name of the Lord in faith to receive salvation and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10). Water baptism and continuing to confess Christ before men FOLLOW saving faith in Christ.

Repentance precedes faith.

Your false gospel is based on performance.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith (not faith + baptism or faith + works), and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Enow · Feb 27, 2017

SeaBass said:

He means that in regards to our salvation, there is only one baptism with the Holy Ghost given by God the father in Jesus's name and no other. When believers start preaching another receiving of Jesus or the Holy Ghost, they are not preaching the gospel. These other supernatural encounters are real but those believers do not know what it is as you will find a different meaning for such encounters, even though it brings the same thing; confusion by seducing them to follow after them for a sign, thereby taking their eyes off of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in the worship place which is what a spirit of the antichrist does. The real indwelling Holy Ghost does not do that because He is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) in seeking His glory ( John 16:14 ). How can the Holy Spirit do that except thru us? ( John 15:27 & John 5:22-23 )

Anyway. that baptism is not referring to water baptism but the baptism with the Holy Ghost at our salvation. That is the faith we are to defend since the spotlight is on Jesus Christ, the Good News to man. There is no other calling nor baptism for saved believers to seek after in receiving the Holy Spirit again since that takes the spotlight away from the Good News.

plaintalk · Feb 28, 2017

Jesus instructed His eleven disciples to go and make disciples of all nation by baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and teaching them to observe all things. This was not the baptism with the Holy Spirit as only Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit; this was a baptism in water. (Matt. 28: 16-20) Mark's version of this was that the eleven were told to preach the gospel to all creation, he that has believed the gospel and has been baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:14-18) This is the same baptism in water in the name of Christ. It was not the baptism with the Spirit. Approximately 10 days later this instruction began to be fulfilled in Acts 2 when 3,000 Jews believed the gospel, repented and were baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. They and their children (Jews) and all that were far off (Gentiles), as many as God shall call to Himself (everyone) were promised the gift of the Holy Spirit. This gift was not explained until Cornelius, a Gentile, also received the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was poured out upon him and his household, who had believed, and the were baptized with the Holy Spirit. (Acts 10: 44- 48; 11: 15- 17) Now Peter recognized that Gentiles were acceptable to God and he commanded them to be baptized in water in the name of Christ. All of God's people have been baptized in the Spirit and made to drink of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12: 13) and they have been been baptized in water in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. We cannot ignore either of these two baptisms, both are in effect until our Lord returns. So how do we deal with Ephesians 4: 5? The only way I can see to take account of both baptisms is to acknowledge that there is one baptism but of two elements, water and Spirit. When we are born again, there is one spiritual birth but two elements, water and Spirit. (John 3: 5) This shouldn't be that difficult for those who believe that God is One, yet three. God bless.

plaintalk · Feb 28, 2017

Jesus said that he who has believed the gospel and has been baptized shall be saved. Was He saying that we are saved by faith + baptism or we are saved by faith + works (that are not of faith)? This is a red herring put out by people with an agenda. Of course not, he was saying that we are saved by a faith which works through love. (Gal. 5: 6) Baptism is a work of faith (Acts 8: 36-, 38) and by definition and practice is "of faith." Please note that Philip was preaching Jesus to the eunuch (v. 35) and the first thing he asked was "what prevents me from being baptized?" God Bless

plaintalk · Feb 28, 2017

In Acts 2: 38 the 3,000 were commanded to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. They had previously believed in verse 37 when they were pierced to the heart. God bless.

mailmandan · Mar 1, 2017

plaintalk said:

You are drinking the wrong water (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s). The two elements found in the new birth (John 3:5) are living water and the Spirit (Who is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing).

Plain ordinary H20 (water baptism) has no power to literally cleanse our heart from sin or mystically cause us to become born again. John 3:5 fits perfectly with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39. *Jesus connects this water with eternal life and living water is not water baptism. *There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

mailmandan · Mar 1, 2017

plaintalk said:

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It was a simple question and the obvious answer is NO, yet because of your agenda, you are forced to believe the answer is yes, after you erroneously try to "shoe horn" water and works "into" faith.

We are saved through faith FIRST (Ephesians 2:8) then we receive the love of God by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (believers - Romans 5:5) THEN our faith works through love. Faith does not work through love in order for us to become saved but BECAUSE we are saved. You have it backwards. You continue to erroneously teach salvation by faith + works.

A work "of" faith means that it was produced "out of" faith, but is not the faith itself. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. The fruit is not the root. So what prevented Phillip from being baptized? That he BELIEVED, which he did and was saved BEFORE water baptism, just as these Gentiles were in Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18 when they BELIEVED, BEFORE water baptism.

mailmandan · Mar 1, 2017

plaintalk said:

Even though these Jews were pierced or cut to the heart, which means they were emotionally pierced through, psychologically pricked, emotionally stunned, at this point in Acts 2:37, their "belief" equated to "acknowledging they were guilty of crucifying the Messiah," but that is not saving belief/faith in Christ yet. This is why they still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved, as we see in Acts 11:17 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). Just as Acts 16:31 says - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

*So don't confuse "believing that you are guilty of crucifying the Messiah" (yet still in need of repentance) with "believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and becoming saved/repentance unto life."

You continue to not understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of belief/faith which is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and you cannot seem to distinguish between mere intellectual belief from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. *You still cannot grasp this DEEPER faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. *This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

plaintalk · Mar 1, 2017

Is faith the root of salvation? "For by grace you have been saved through faith"...(Eph. 2: 8) Clearly, the grace of God is the "root" or the foundation of our salvation. Faith is one of three virtues which give us access to the grace of God; "but now abides faith, hope and love, these three" (1 Cor. 13: 13); faith is indispensable and it is the introductory virtue but it is not alone and it is not the greatest of the three virtues; that distinction belongs to love. To love God with all our being is the first and great commandment and to love our neighbor is the second; faith, as great as it is, without love is meaningless. (1 Cor. 13: 2)

Faith is the work of God (John 6: 29), He opens the heart of the humble, to respond to the message in faith, hope and love (Acts 16: 14); faith is received as a gift from God (Rom, 12: 3), by the grace of God. (Acts 18: 27). While it is true that God does not believe for us or irresistibly cause us to believe, it is also true that that we do not obey the gospel by choosing to believe by the exercise of our will (John 1: 12, 13). Salvation is not of ourselves.

The assumption that the eunuch was saved before he was baptized is unsupported by the text and counter to Jesus statement, "He who has believed and has been baptized been baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16: 16) God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 1, 2017

"This is why they still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved,"

Did the 3,000 repent and then believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved?" The text says, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The text says nothing about believing as you repent or after you repent. The mailmandan needs to read this verse again and give us an accurate statement.

The word order in the NASB follows the word order in the Greek text; any claim to disassociate baptism from the forgiveness of sins is contrived. Daniel B. Wallace rejected this claim in his Greek Grammar, Beyond Basics, even though he is a Baptist (I believe) and sympathetic to this view point.

The promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit is received upon repentance and baptism and is made to all who believe and obey. (Acts 5: 32) God apparently wants to clean us up before He imparts the Spirit. There is no promise to anyone that he will receive the Spirit in the same order of events as Cornelius. The constant reference to Cornelius as an example for all IMO is a serious flaw in thinking. Cornelius was saved as all people are, only the order of events was changed. (Acts 15: 11)

Only people who believed with all their heart were baptized. (Acts 8: 36-38) The fact that Peter commanded the 3,000 to repent and let yourself be baptized indicates that they did believe with all their heart. When we first believe with all our heart we are not saved, we are begotten by God and given the right to become a child of God. (John 1: 12, 13) God bless.

CLee622 · Mar 1, 2017

John the Baptist said "the One Who comes after me .. is greater than me .. I """baptize with water""" but He will """baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT and fire""" ... if baptism was more than an act of obedience - why did Jesus get baptized?

needed no sin washed away.

To make it (baptism) part of how we get saved, takes glory and power away from the blood of Christ. It's terrible...thief on the cross couldn't get baptized and Yeshua said "today, you will be with Me in paradise" ... someone who believes water baptism is part of how we get saved tried to tell me that Jesus hadn't died yet so the thief didn't need baptism. I remembered, and looked at verses to confirm, the criminals died after Jesus, because the soldiers broke their legs to speed their deaths but once they "saw Jesus was already dead" they pierced His side, bringing forth a flow of blood and water. The water/water like fluid separating from blood around heart and lungs is a medical key/clue revealing He was dead. So - they were wrong in saying because Hesus hadn't died, the thief needed no baptism "yet" ... <3 God is very clear and precise in His word. He is not a God of confusion.

CLee622 · Mar 1, 2017

Jesus* of course

already corrected some errors can't again.

mailmandan · Mar 1, 2017

plaintalk said:

We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2). In regards to faith, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13), I already explained this to you in post #301 - http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ches-baptism-commanded-remission-sins-16.html

If someone has genuine saving faith in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit, it would be impossible for them to have NO love at all. Paul uses hyperbole (obvious and intentional exaggeration) about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love. Paul is not exaggerating about the importance of love though. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith plus love. Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do. We won't need faith and hope in heaven.

In 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith is insufficient to save us without our best efforts to love by performing acts of charity. All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

God draws us (John 6:44) and enables us to believe (John 6:65) but we must choose to believe the gospel. God does not force anyone to believe the gospel. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). Salvation is not of ourselves/it is the gift of God/not of works, yet salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8,9).

The eunuch was saved when he believed BEFORE water baptism just as these Gentiles were saved when they believed BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18) just as we are all saved the moment that we believe BEFORE water baptism.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Let me know when you are ready to accept the truth.

stonesoffire · Mar 1, 2017

I would think that one in the NT would be the same as in the OT. And that is unified...the Lord our God is One...El Eloah Elohim

Unified. All that is mentioned in that verse one Lord, one faith, one baptism..

Unified. Of God.

I forgot to mention the Hebrew word for One...its echad.

mailmandan · Mar 1, 2017

plaintalk said:

According to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38 and failure to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture, faith is not necessary for salvation based on your argument from Acts 2:38.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

*Here is what Daniel B. Wallace had to say about Acts 2:38.

Daniel Wallace explains in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: It is possible that to a first-century Jewish audience (as well as to Peter), the idea of baptism might incorporate both the spiritual reality and the physical symbol (although only the reality remits sins). In other words, when one spoke of baptism, he usually meant both ideas—the reality and the ritual. Peter is shown to make the strong connection between these two in chapters 10 and 11. In 11:15-16 he recounts the conversion of Cornelius and friends, pointing out that at the point of their conversion they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. After he had seen this, he declared, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit…” (10:47). The point seems to be that if they have had the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit via spiritual baptism, there ought to be a public testimony/acknowledgment via water baptism as well. This may not only explain Acts 2:38 (that Peter spoke of both reality and picture, though only the reality removes sins), but also why the NT speaks of only baptized believers (as far as we can tell): Water baptism is not a cause of salvation, but a picture; and as such it serves both as a public acknowledgment (by those present) and a public confession (by the convert) that one has been Spirit baptized.

False. We receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we believe the gospel. "Repentance" (change of mind) - new direction of this change of mind - (believe the gospel). Two sides to the same experience. We obey by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). Changing our mind (repentance) and choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves us. *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which FOLLOW after we have been saved through faith.

Our hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9). Believers receive the Holy Spirit and are saved in the same order of events as Cornelius. Your constant reference to Acts 2:38 (and your failure to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture) s a serious flaw in thinking. The order of events have not been changed (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9).

And what does the Bible say happens when we believe? (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5 etc..).

False. We are saved the moment that we believe with all our heart BEFORE water baptism. Period. Given the right to become children of God when we believe in His name means that we ACTUALLY DO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD when we believe in His name - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. You need to accept the truth and quit twisting the Scriptures in order to try and force them to accommodate your biased church doctrine.

plaintalk · Mar 2, 2017

CLee622 writes"
"John the Baptist said "the One Who comes after me .. is greater than me .. I """baptize with water""" but He will """baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT and fire""" ... if baptism was more than an act of obedience - why did Jesus get baptized?

needed no sin washed away."
Response:
Shortly before His ascension into heaven our Lord authorized baptism in water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to make disciples of all the nations (Matt. 28: 18-20) and to preach the gospel to all creation. He said, "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16: 16) In Luke 24: 47 He said that repentance should be proclaimed in His name beginning at Jerusalem. These instructions began to be fulfilled in Acts 2 a short time later, 3,000 people were converted. He promised those 3,000 and indeed all that God would call, that they would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is poured out upon us richly and abundantly immersing and anointing us with the Spirit. (1 Cor. 12: 13; 1 John 2: 20; Titus 3: 5,6) This completes our consecration to the service of God and is foreshadowed in the consecration of Aaron and his sons in Exodus 29. If you notice before they were anointed with the oil of gladness (representing the Holy Spirit) they were washed with water, signifying their cleansing. (v. 4) Jesus was baptized, "to fulfill all righteousness," He was washed with water before he received and was anointed by the Holy Spirit. His baptism was an example for us to complete the process. plus discipleship and salvation are pretty good reasons to obey, The baptism in water and the Holy Spirit complement one another as seen in the conversion of Cornelius. (Acts 10: 44- 48) God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 2, 2017

CLee 622 writes: one baptism, #612
"To make it (baptism) part of how we get saved, takes glory and power away from the blood of Christ. It's terrible."
Response:
You need to take that up with our Lord, He is the one who authorized baptism. When we by faith obey our Lord, by repentance and baptism, we are sprinkled with the blood Christ. (1 Peter 1: 2) They all work together. Our faith is working with our works of faith, and as a result of our works, perfecting our faith. (James 2: 22) God bless.

plaintalk · Mar 2, 2017

mailmandan writes:
"False. We are saved the moment that we believe with all our heart BEFORE water baptism. Period. Given the right to become children of God when we believe in His name means that we ACTUALLY DO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD when we believe in His name - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. You need to accept the truth and quit twisting the Scriptures in order to try and force them to accommodate your biased church doctrine."
Response:
The fact that they were still in their sin, when commanded to repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of sin, indicates that you are wrong in your assumption. As Jesus says, we shall be saved when we believe and are baptized.
When a person believes with all their heart, he is born (begotten by God) (John 1: 12,13) (Robetson's NT Word Pictures), he is given the right to become a child of God. A child is born (birth) when he comes forth from the water and Spirit (John 3: 5) or by adoption, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." (Gal. 3: 26, 27) Please note we are sons of God through faith when we are baptized into Christ, because we are clothed with Christ's attribute of sonship. God Bless.

CLee622 · Mar 2, 2017

Baptism is given as a sign. You even say "signifying" their cleansing. No physical act can bring about a spiritual birth. Nothing we do "makes" or "allows" the Spirit to move. We are chosen before the foundations of the world. I have revisited my rebirth and just like the apostles, I believed (was reborn) and later received "power" from the Spirit. Power to understand, learn, grow ... He had already breathed on them saying "receive" the Spirit.

I was baptized for obedience. Never will anyone convince me that a work I did allowed me to be "fully" saved. I hope you trust Christ fully and we all come to know the whole truth together in heaven but - if you believe "Jesus AND ---" saves you that is not the gospel people die for.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." From John 6

plaintalk said:

ONE BAPTISM - Ephesians 4:5

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