One taken,one left. The rapture.
- Thread starter Absolutely
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We COULD call it "pre-DOTL"... but many people MIS-define the term "the day of the Lord"... so that comes across as "unhelpful" to many.
["the day of the Lord" will ARRIVE exactly like [hosper] the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... 1Th5:1-3 ; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 ... equivalent to the FIRST SEAL of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period we commonly called the Trib; IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the point in time of Christ's 2nd Coming TO THE EARTH at Rev19, as many incorrectly suppose... NO.]
As a pre-tribber, myself... even I have many disagreements with Abs' viewpoint that he puts forward... just to be clear. = )
["the day of the Lord" will ARRIVE exactly like [hosper] the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... 1Th5:1-3 ; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 ... equivalent to the FIRST SEAL of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period we commonly called the Trib; IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the point in time of Christ's 2nd Coming TO THE EARTH at Rev19, as many incorrectly suppose... NO.]
As a pre-tribber, myself... even I have many disagreements with Abs' viewpoint that he puts forward... just to be clear. = )
In Scripture, where it says, "Behold, I come AS A THIEF."... the words "IN THE NIGHT" are never used in conjunction with this, when it is speaking of Him / Himself [His Person].
Where Scripture speaks of "_____ cometh AS A THIEF *IN THE NIGHT*," it is speaking of the specific (future), earthly-located "TIME PERIOD" (not He Himself / His Person)
Where Scripture speaks of "_____ cometh AS A THIEF *IN THE NIGHT*," it is speaking of the specific (future), earthly-located "TIME PERIOD" (not He Himself / His Person)
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If I gather correctly the point you are attempting to convey here, I would say to that, one would have to completely butcher the chronology of the "seals--trumpets--vials" in Revelation (in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period), in addition to donning "color-blind glasses," in order to convince anyone of this "SEQUENCE" you are putting forth in the above-quoted post ^
(whereas I've pointed out in past posts that "moon INTO BLOOD / BECAME AS BLOOD" which occurs "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect [of it; that is, IN THE FIRST HALF], it completely distinct in every way from the phrase "moon SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT" which will occur "AFTER" the GREAT aspect [of it; that is AFTER the SECOND HALF); the only "point of connection" between these two [or, among these three, actually] passages is "the MOON" itself (however, its DESCRIPTION and the TIMING issues prove to show these are ENTIRELY DISTINCT TIME-SLOTS)
[again, for the readers: "the beginning of birth PANGS" are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of the future, specific, LIMITED time-period that LEADS UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, at which point He Himself will "come LIKE A THIEF. [period]"; this will be the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect OF "the DOTL" earthly-located time-period... there's more of it that follows on from this point]
(whereas I've pointed out in past posts that "moon INTO BLOOD / BECAME AS BLOOD" which occurs "BEFORE the GREAT" aspect [of it; that is, IN THE FIRST HALF], it completely distinct in every way from the phrase "moon SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT" which will occur "AFTER" the GREAT aspect [of it; that is AFTER the SECOND HALF); the only "point of connection" between these two [or, among these three, actually] passages is "the MOON" itself (however, its DESCRIPTION and the TIMING issues prove to show these are ENTIRELY DISTINCT TIME-SLOTS)
[again, for the readers: "the beginning of birth PANGS" are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of the future, specific, LIMITED time-period that LEADS UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, at which point He Himself will "come LIKE A THIEF. [period]"; this will be the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect OF "the DOTL" earthly-located time-period... there's more of it that follows on from this point]
"Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? ...' "
And yet, the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect OF the ENTIRE LONG time-period known as "the DOTL" is what KICKS OFF the whole [DOTL] thing with SEAL #1... "IN THE NIGHT" (WITH its "man of sin" and ALL he is slated to DO within that particular ['DARK,' 'DARKNESS'] time-period)
the "in the night" aspect precedes the "full light of day" aspect
And yet, the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect OF the ENTIRE LONG time-period known as "the DOTL" is what KICKS OFF the whole [DOTL] thing with SEAL #1... "IN THE NIGHT" (WITH its "man of sin" and ALL he is slated to DO within that particular ['DARK,' 'DARKNESS'] time-period)
the "in the night" aspect precedes the "full light of day" aspect
don’t most consider the “ rapture “ to be Hearn Christ returns and gathers his people literally from the earth ? I’m not even sure reading through these posts that we all have the same idea of terms like “ rapture “ and what that even means
Are we talking about when he returns to gather his people ?
“And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:21-27 KJV
notice he’s telling themthey will go through all he’s describing in those chapters and after it ends he will gather his people
I think we’re all thinking of a different thing and arguing about what the rapture even means which isn’t surprising because it doesn’t appear on scripture people invented the term when they read this
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
as we see though it happens after the dead are raised up in the end and it only applies to those still alive in That final generation only that last generation of Christians will be caught up to meet the others in the air the day he returns
if we’re talking about spirit going to heaven that happens when each believer does after they have went through ehatever tribulation the world gives them.
There’s going to be at the end of the world just before it’s completely destroyed , still the church alive in that last generation on earth and only that day will they be caught up to meet those who went before in the air with Jesus which is where thy term “ rapture” came in
to go through the tribulation is promised to the church it’s why he was telling them beforehand what was coming. I don’t think ore tribulation has any merit but ore destruction of the earth does it will happen at that moment when he returns to destroy the earth just before he will gather all his people together with him and then destruction for all the rest the earth will become a lake of fire made for punishment of the ungodly
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
2 Peter 3:7 KJV
tribulation is part of being a Christian we just need to look around as we love as Christ taught and tribulations will come into focus it’s the world itself
Are we talking about when he returns to gather his people ?
“And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:21-27 KJV
notice he’s telling themthey will go through all he’s describing in those chapters and after it ends he will gather his people
I think we’re all thinking of a different thing and arguing about what the rapture even means which isn’t surprising because it doesn’t appear on scripture people invented the term when they read this
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
as we see though it happens after the dead are raised up in the end and it only applies to those still alive in That final generation only that last generation of Christians will be caught up to meet the others in the air the day he returns
if we’re talking about spirit going to heaven that happens when each believer does after they have went through ehatever tribulation the world gives them.
There’s going to be at the end of the world just before it’s completely destroyed , still the church alive in that last generation on earth and only that day will they be caught up to meet those who went before in the air with Jesus which is where thy term “ rapture” came in
to go through the tribulation is promised to the church it’s why he was telling them beforehand what was coming. I don’t think ore tribulation has any merit but ore destruction of the earth does it will happen at that moment when he returns to destroy the earth just before he will gather all his people together with him and then destruction for all the rest the earth will become a lake of fire made for punishment of the ungodly
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
2 Peter 3:7 KJV
tribulation is part of being a Christian we just need to look around as we love as Christ taught and tribulations will come into focus it’s the world itself
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