One taken,one left. The rapture.

[Isaskar]

FreeGrace2 said:
However, we know there is just one resurrection of the saved, which will occur "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) back at the Second Advent, so there can't be any mortal believers left to populate the planet during the Millennial reign. All believers will have glorified bodies and be serving/reigning with Christ for the Millennium.

Yes.


Correct.


Yes, the resurrection of the saved is the "first resurrection". And "the rest of the dead" would be all the unbelievers, who will be raised to life back into their mortal bodies, to appear before the GWT judgment, which immediately follows the Millennial reign.


Since believers have been resurrected/glorified bodies at the Second Advent, it would appear that "the camp of the saints" may be where all of them have grouped at the end of the Millennium. I don't see how there can be any mortal believers left. However, if there are any converts during the Millennium, then there's no accounting of how they would receive glorified bodies.


Proving that annihilationism is not biblical.


Not sure. I see the GWT as the resurrection (minus glorified bodies) of all the unsaved. I think v.5 shows that the second resurrection will be of all the unsaved.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

I see two separate resurrections here. One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The saved will be resurrected at the Second Advent, and the unsaved will be resurrected, minus glorified bodies, for the GWT judgment.

btw, the lake of fire is also called the "second death". That makes me think their mortal bodies will be resurrected for the purpose of appearing at the GWT judgment.


This looks like all the unsaved; especially because of the words "death and hell". Jesus emptied Paradise, one compartment of Hades (translated "hell"), so all that would be left would be the unsaved.

I hope I was able to cover all the bases.

Thanks, we agree on everything except for this part: "those that were deceived by satan cant be those who were resurrected in the second resurrection, because it only happens here, AFTER satan has been destroyed "

I agree that the book of revelation is not chronological necessarily, so you could make the case that its not in chronological order there, but the reason I disagree in regards to Rev 20 not being chronological is because it mentions a time line where devil is thrown into the lake of fire and only THEN is there a resurrection of the lost.

Unfortunately we can never know for sure lol. As much as everyone is confident in their position, I think a certain level of humbleness should be present with the book of revelation

 

[justpassinthrough]

"""There is no debate"""".
That would require everyone to be on the same page

"""There is only believing the truth."""

Then you post verses both side believe 100% and do nothing to demonstrate or correct your error that YOUR DOCTRINE , NOT TRUTH, has the dead in Christ, raised AFTER the gathering of rev 14.

Your doctrine is NOT AT ALL associated with truth and i have destroyed it over and over.

Can you answer the question ?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


This scripture teaches us the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


Do you believe the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming?




JPT

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thanks, we agree on everything except for this part: "those that were deceived by satan cant be those who were resurrected in the second resurrection, because it only happens here, AFTER satan has been destroyed "

I reviewed my entire post and didn't see any of these red words. Where did I say this? In fact, I don't agree with the statement either.

I agree that the book of revelation is not chronological necessarily, so you could make the case that its not in chronological order there, but the reason I disagree in regards to Rev 20 not being chronological is because it mentions a time line where devil is thrown into the lake of fire and only THEN is there a resurrection of the lost.

Not a problem for me. We know that beast #1 and 2 were already thrown into the lake of fire ALIVE from Rev 19-
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Unfortunately we can never know for sure lol.

We can know what the Word is clear about.

As much as everyone is confident in their position, I think a certain level of humbleness should be present with the book of revelation

Yes. But one's confidence should ONLY be in what the Word says clearly. Those who use parables to defend their position and such should have NO confidence at all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Absolutely said:
"""There is no debate"""".
That would require everyone to be on the same page

"""There is only believing the truth."""

Can you answer the question ?

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

This scripture teaches us the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

Do you believe the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming?

Pretribbers see Jesus "coming" multiple times, in order to "justify" their position. I think Abs has claimed Jesus has THREE advents. He won't be swayed even with clear evidence.

One of the problems is the word "rapture". There is no such event, as pretribbers think of it. For them, all emphasis is on "the rapture" with little or no emphasis on 'resurrection', which is the really big deal.

The Bible says nothing about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, regardless of timing. So they have NO EVIDENCE for their understanding of 'rapture'. None at all.

Instead, Abs goes to parables to defend his position. Or a warped view of Rev 14.

But I suspect he will say yes to your questions, but thinking that Jesus' "coming" in 1 Thess 4 is pretrib.

 

[DavidTree]

"""There is no debate"""".
That would require everyone to be on the same page

"""There is only believing the truth."""

Then you post verses both side believe 100% and do nothing to demonstrate or correct your error that YOUR DOCTRINE , NOT TRUTH, has the dead in Christ, raised AFTER the gathering of rev 14.

Your doctrine is NOT AT ALL associated with truth and i have destroyed it over and over.

The Gathering of Revelation ch14 is thru death = the sickle.

"Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,
“Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

 

[Absolutely]

Can you answer the question ?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


This scripture teaches us the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.


Do you believe the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming?




JPT

Pretrib yes.

Can you answer this question?
Why do you have the dead resurrected AFTER the living that are gathered during the trib in rev 14?

1thes 4 (the dead DO NOT FOLLOW the living.)

...and here are the living gathered DURING THE TRIB; (your postrib resurrection busted)

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of

....and here in vs 14-16
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

It will be up to you to change the book of revelation.

 

[Absolutely]

The Gathering of Revelation ch14 is thru death = the sickle.

"Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,
“Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

All wheat is harvested via a sickle.
As are grapes.
We already knew that.
It is supposed to be that way.

BTW if you are placing a resurrection at mid trib,then that also destroys post and mid trib positions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All wheat is harvested via a sickle.
As are grapes.
We already knew that.
It is supposed to be that way.

BTW if you are placing a resurrection at mid trib,then that also destroys post and mid trib positions.

Why in the world would anyone equate the sickle with a resurrection/rapture trip to heaven????

This is the context for REv 14 and "harvesting". let's see what gives here.

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

OK, we have 6 mentions of "sharp sickle", 2 mentions of "harvest", directly associated with the "sharp sickle".

Now, do you honestly think that the red words, which use the word "gathered", refers to your idea of rapture??

If so, why would John include God's winepress of wrath with this gathering?

Instead, we have a summary picture of God's judgment on earth and its inhabitants at the battle of Armageddon. Which is yet future.

If you think there is a resurrection/rapture of believers in Rev 14, please just quote the actual verses please.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Pretrib yes.

You don’t seem to understand the word that is being discussed.

The coming (Parousia) is His visible return to earth, to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, and to destroy the wicked.


For G1063 this G5124 we say G3004 unto you G5213 by G1722 the word G3056 of the Lord, G2962 that G3754 we G2249 which G3588 are alive G2198 and remain G4035 unto G1519the coming G3952 of the Lord G2962 shall G5348 ➔ not G3364 prevent G5348 them which G3588 are asleep. G2837

Strong’s G3952 — Parousia:

1. presence
2. the coming, arrival, advent
   1. the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

His coming which is to say His Parousia, denotes His return to earth from heaven to remove the wicked and establish His eternal kingdom on earth.


Please explain how Jesus destroys the wicked including the antichrist BEFORE, the tribulation?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15



We all see the plain and clear words of Paul, who echoes Jesus Christ about His coming.



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31






JPT

 

[Absolutely]

You don’t seem to understand the word that is being discussed.

The coming (Parousia) is His visible return to earth, to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, and to destroy the wicked.


For G1063 this G5124 we say G3004 unto you G5213 by G1722 the word G3056 of the Lord, G2962 that G3754 we G2249 which G3588 are alive G2198 and remain G4035 unto G1519the coming G3952 of the Lord G2962 shall G5348 ➔ not G3364 prevent G5348 them which G3588 are asleep. G2837

Strong’s G3952 — Parousia:

1. presence
2. the coming, arrival, advent
   1. the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

His coming which is to say His Parousia, denotes His return to earth from heaven to remove the wicked and establish His eternal kingdom on earth.


Please explain how Jesus destroys the wicked including the antichrist BEFORE, the tribulation?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15



We all see the plain and clear words of Paul, who echoes Jesus Christ about His coming.



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31






JPT

We both believe he comes postrib and destroys the satanic army and sets up his kingdom

The debate is actually when the RAPTURE occurs.
The bible, declares 3 comings.
The rapture pretrib.

What you would need to debate these dynamics would be
*Noah gathered after the flood.
*Lot removed after the judgement
*No gatherings of rev 14 during the gt.
*The " like manner" declaration to go away.
*Jesus not knowing what he is talking about, telling us to watch and pray for his coming BEFORE The FLOOD in mat 24
*The virgin parable to go away
*Rev 19, to be changed from "wife" to "bridesmaids" ( or however you guys refigure rev 19.
*Reconfigure Ruth into a Jewess...(oh wait....you guys do just that)

And others.

The bible witnessed powerfully against a post or mid trib rapture.

However , Jesus comes 3 times.

 

[Absolutely]

Why in the world would anyone equate the sickle with a resurrection/rapture trip to heaven????

This is the context for REv 14 and "harvesting". let's see what gives here.

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

OK, we have 6 mentions of "sharp sickle", 2 mentions of "harvest", directly associated with the "sharp sickle".

Now, do you honestly think that the red words, which use the word "gathered", refers to your idea of rapture??

If so, why would John include God's winepress of wrath with this gathering?

Instead, we have a summary picture of God's judgment on earth and its inhabitants at the battle of Armageddon. Which is yet future.

If you think there is a resurrection/rapture of believers in Rev 14, please just quote the actual verses please.

1) then the firstfruit Jews are not firstfruits if Jesus does not gather the main portion.
That would be rev 14:14.
2) "the earth was harvested"

3) THEN AN ANGEL NOT JESUS HARVESTS THE FULLY RIPE FRUIT TO DESTRUCTION.
4) Rev 14 is in no way the pretrib rapture of 1 thes 4.
I would hate to be in the shoes of a postrib trying to make "sickle" a powerpoint.
Lol you now have the wgeat and barley harvests ( always via a sickle) as a bad thing)

Do not change revelation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We both believe he comes postrib and destroys the satanic army and sets up his kingdom

What you omit are the verses that directly link the resurrection of all believers to the Second Advent.

2 Thess 2:1, 1 Cor 15:23, Rev 20:5.

The debate is actually when the RAPTURE occurs.
The bible, declares 3 comings.
The rapture pretrib.

Actually, since there is NO evidence for 3 "comings", there is no debate. But yes, there are those who think there is something to debate.

You've NEVER given the verses of these 3 supposed 'comings'.

What you would need to debate these dynamics would be
*Noah gathered after the flood.
*Lot removed after the judgement
*No gatherings of rev 14 during the gt.
*The " like manner" declaration to go away.
*Jesus not knowing what he is talking about, telling us to watch and pray for his coming BEFORE The FLOOD in mat 24
*The virgin parable to go away
*Rev 19, to be changed from "wife" to "bridesmaids" ( or however you guys refigure rev 19.
*Reconfigure Ruth into a Jewess...(oh wait....you guys do just that)

These things have all been debated and you lost every one of them.

Please over your Noah obsession. When Jesus said "in like manner" He was speaking of how people were living in Noah's time, when the flood came. That's all.

And using a parable to prove anything is ludicrous. Anyone can use a parable to say anything.

And others.

You've NEVER given ANY verses that show 3 comings.

The bible witnessed powerfully against a post or mid trib rapture.

The Bible clearly teaches a post trib resurrection. It clearly rejects a pre or mid trib anything.

However , Jesus comes 3 times.

You haven't proven it because you can't show it from the Bible.

Jesus came to earth as a baby, to be the suffering servant and Savior.
Jesus will come back to earth as King of kings and Lord of lords.

That's it. Accept biblical truth.

You have to make up a 3rd coming to defend your presumption.

The Bible says NOTHING about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Period.

That would be your only evidence that would support your ideas. And you don't have any evidence.

This is what you have:
parables,
misapplied event with Noah
presumption

 

[FreeGrace2]

1) then the firstfruit Jews are not firstfruits if Jesus does not gather the main portion.
That would be rev 14:14.
2) "the earth was harvested"

I've already explained all the verses in the context of a sharp sickle and a harvest in ch 14. Are you just unable to understand words?

The harvesting has NOTHING to do with your concept of rapture. It has everything to do with killing LOTS and LOTS of people.

Examine the last verse very carefully and imagine how high the blood runs. And for 180 miles. That's a LOT of blood.

3) THEN AN ANGEL NOT JESUS HARVESTS THE FULLY RIPE FRUIT TO DESTRUCTION.
4) Rev 14 is in no way the pretrib rapture of 1 thes 4.

Huh? So what does ch 14 refer to then? Another kind of rapture, or what? You really haven't been very clear.

I would hate to be in the shoes of a postrib trying to make "sickle" a powerpoint.

Is it that difficult for you to understand?

Lol you now have the wgeat and barley harvests ( always via a sickle) as a bad thing)

Do not change revelation.

If you think I have or am trying to "change Revelation", please explain yourself very clearly and quote me and cite the post #s so everyone can see your evidence.

Or, simply quit making these empty claims.

 

[justpassinthrough]

We both believe he comes postrib and destroys the satanic army and sets up his kingdom

The debate is actually when the RAPTURE occurs.
The bible, declares 3 comings.
The rapture pretrib.

What you would need to debate these dynamics would be
*Noah gathered after the flood.
*Lot removed after the judgement
*No gatherings of rev 14 during the gt.
*The " like manner" declaration to go away.
*Jesus not knowing what he is talking about, telling us to watch and pray for his coming BEFORE The FLOOD in mat 24
*The virgin parable to go away
*Rev 19, to be changed from "wife" to "bridesmaids" ( or however you guys refigure rev 19.
*Reconfigure Ruth into a Jewess...(oh wait....you guys do just that)

And others.

The bible witnessed powerfully against a post or mid trib rapture.

However , Jesus comes 3 times.

You have no scripture, because there is no such thing as “pretrib rapture”.


The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs first, at His coming, then the rapture comes after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


Then while the saints who are resurrected and raptured are caught up together high above the earth, the Lord destroys the wicked, including the antichrist.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8




JPT

 

[Absolutely]

You have no scripture, because there is no such thing as “pretrib rapture”.


The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs first, at His coming, then the rapture comes after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


Then while the saints who are resurrected and raptured are caught up together high above the earth, the Lord destroys the wicked, including the antichrist.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8




JPT

It is scripture that rips the postrib doctrine.
That is WHY you go hyper general in your replies.

Rev 14:14
Acts 1
Mat 25( about the only vain hope of the virgin parable is for you guys to erroneously insert " bridesmaids after jettisoning "virgins")

None of those bible references can be refuted honestly.

Just keep pretending "we have no verses"

We are 10 to one in making you go against the bible.
You got what ....one verse???
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

We both believe he comes postrib and destroys the satanic army and sets up his kingdom

The debate is actually when the RAPTURE occurs.
The bible, declares 3 comings.
The rapture pretrib.

What you would need to debate these dynamics would be
*Noah gathered after the flood.
*Lot removed after the judgement
*No gatherings of rev 14 during the gt.
*The " like manner" declaration to go away.
*Jesus not knowing what he is talking about, telling us to watch and pray for his coming BEFORE The FLOOD in mat 24
*The virgin parable to go away
*Rev 19, to be changed from "wife" to "bridesmaids" ( or however you guys refigure rev 19.
*Reconfigure Ruth into a Jewess...(oh wait....you guys do just that)

And others.

The bible witnessed powerfully against a post or mid trib rapture.

However , Jesus comes 3 times.

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^

.....can not be answered.

 

[Absolutely]

Pretrib yes.

Can you answer this question?
Why do you have the dead resurrected AFTER the living that are gathered during the trib in rev 14?

1thes 4 (the dead DO NOT FOLLOW the living.)

...and here are the living gathered DURING THE TRIB; (your postrib resurrection busted)

Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of

....and here in vs 14-16
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

It will be up to you to change the book of revelation.

We will note he never did answer it.
Oh wait....he said we have no verses.

That was as deep as he dared venture.

SMH

 

[FreeGrace2]

Said to abs:

You have no scripture, because there is no such thing as “pretrib rapture”.
I would say:

"There is no such thing as pretrib rapture BECAUSE you have no Scripture".

Either way, Abs has NO evidence for his fancied trip to heaven after getting a glorified body.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is scripture that rips the postrib doctrine.

This is just so funny.

In fact, it is Scriptue that PROVES a single posttrib resurrection, where those who 'are alive and remain' get glorified bodies. But NO ONE gets a trip to heaven at the resurrection. Or the Bible would have included that.

Rev 14:14

No rapture in that chapter.

v.14 - I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

Silly boy. All references to "sharp sickle" in ch 14 result in LOADS AND LOADS AND LOADS OF BLOOD.

If you want to fantasize that your trip to heaven will include boatloads of blood, that's your perogative.

Acts 1

OK, sure. Jesus was 'raptured', if you want to call it that. Now, show me a verse that describes human beings being given glorified bodies and then taken to heaven.

I'll wait.

[QUOET]Mat 25( about the only vain hope of the virgin parable is for you guys to erroneously insert " bridesmaids after jettisoning "virgins")[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. Pull out your parable to prove something. Except the ONLY ONE who can interpret a parable is the ONE who gave it.

And that's NOT you.

None of those bible references can be refuted honestly.

Every single one HAS BEEN refuted honestly. But you're just not paying attention.

Just keep pretending "we have no verses"

No pretending needed. None of the verses you just cited even mentions a trip to heaven. What you have done is force a whole lot of PRESUMPTION into those verses.

We are 10 to one in making you go against the bible.

That is delusional, of course.

You got what ....one verse???
Lol

If you would wake up and open your eyes, you've been given many verses that prove 1 resurrection, which occurs at the Second Advent, and there are NO trips to heaven.

But you remain in DENIAL.

your bad.

 

[Absolutely]

This is just so funny.

In fact, it is Scriptue that PROVES a single posttrib resurrection, where those who 'are alive and remain' get glorified bodies. But NO ONE gets a trip to heaven at the resurrection. Or the Bible would have included that.


No rapture in that chapter.

v.14 - I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

Silly boy. All references to "sharp sickle" in ch 14 result in LOADS AND LOADS AND LOADS OF BLOOD.

If you want to fantasize that your trip to heaven will include boatloads of blood, that's your perogative.


OK, sure. Jesus was 'raptured', if you want to call it that. Now, show me a verse that describes human beings being given glorified bodies and then taken to heaven.

I'll wait.

[QUOETE]


You never honestly looked at any of those verses.
What a snarky treatment of Gods word.
Pitiful and disrespecting to Gods word.

SMH.
Pitiful