Oneness or trinity, Is Jesus God or man?

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#21
Actually, you've not understood a word I've said.
Jesus was God.
This is the perfect example of why Denominationalism fractures the truth of God in Christ. There are Denominations that teach Jesus was just a man, who was favored by God and with His blessing the man Jesus performed miracles. Anbaptists believe this. As do Jehovah Witness.

Jesus was God. That's it.
I am not changing the word..

I understood it clearly...
The Word WAS God....
Jesus indeed was man...he is the Word who became flesh...
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#22
God sent the holy spirit...after Jesus ascension. The Father is not the holy spirit nor the Father is not the Son.but we have one true God which is the Father. John 17:5
Jesus is both God and man. Below are some of the scriptures that confirm this:

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

But about the Son He (God the Father) says:

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom."

You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God (Jesus), Your God (the Father), has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (Immanuel means “God with us.”)

John 5:17-18 - Jesus said to them “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 10:29-33 - My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one. Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 20:27-29 – Then he said to Thomas “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Acts 20:28 - Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Rom.9:5 - Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 - Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:5-7 - Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Titus 2:13 - While we wait for the blessed hope -- the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

If you have an employer and an employee, are they both not still equal as human beings?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#23
I am not changing the word..

I understood it clearly...
The Word WAS God....
Jesus indeed was man...he is the Word who became flesh...
You're changing your remarks now from what you said in your post #3. "God sent the holy spirit...after Jesus ascension. The Father is not the holy spirit nor the Father is not the Son.but we have one true God which is the Father. John 17:5 "
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#24
Jesus is both God and man. Below are some of the scriptures that confirm this:

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word.

But about the Son He (God the Father) says:

“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom."

You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God (Jesus), Your God (the Father), has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (Immanuel means “God with us.”)

John 5:17-18 - Jesus said to them “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 10:29-33 - My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one. Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 20:27-29 – Then he said to Thomas “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Acts 20:28 - Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Rom.9:5 - Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 - Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:5-7 - Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Titus 2:13 - While we wait for the blessed hope -- the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

If you have an employer and an employee, are they both not still equal as human beings?
Hebrews 1:8-9...showing God anointed the Son... as in Jesus baptism.. as confirm by peter in acts 10:38

Image of invisible God...

Note..God is invisible...
Hence he is the image...the Son show us God even the Father.

Emmanuel -God with us...
God is with us..does not make us God.

The Father is greater than I...just supported the Father is God.

The Church bought by God's blood...
God is spirit..no flesh and blood...

Calling the Father...making himself equal with God..
He was equal with God...(what it means by "equal with" is it the original?

But there is one God the Father....very clear..
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#25
The question...Is...not Was...
When we're reading the accounts of Christ in the Bible after the fact, we read there that Jesus was God.
In this moment of reality after Jesus ascended and we who are in faith and in Christ, present tense, we know that Jesus is God. The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, are not three different entities, but One, because God tells us, there is only One and no other.
The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
The Book of Mark chapter 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Also, there was/is no other Savior but God.The Book of Isaiah chapter 43 :11.I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#26
You're changing your remarks now from what you said in your post #3. "God sent the holy spirit...after Jesus ascension. The Father is not the holy spirit nor the Father is not the Son.but we have one true God which is the Father. John 17:5 "
No i am not...
The Word became flesh...
So we have one true God...
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#27
When we're reading the accounts of Christ in the Bible after the fact, we read there that Jesus was God.
In this moment of reality after Jesus ascended and we who are in faith and in Christ, present tense, we know that Jesus is God. The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, are not three different entities, but One, because God tells us, there is only One and no other.
The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
The Book of Mark chapter 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Also, there was/is no other Savior but God.The Book of Isaiah chapter 43 :11.I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me.
.
The Word was God...
But we see Jesus a man...
God made him Lord and Saviour..
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#29
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit (alway's capitalized showing deity) is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 3:16 & 13:14

Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(NOTE: The Hebrew word Echad translates One. However, echad/one, means UNITY not SINGULARITY. Another example of echad: Gen 2:24 echad speaks about the husband & wife being ONE flesh. Husband & wife aren't a singular being. They are in unity with each other.)


The Son begins in his Godly form, seperates/divest himself to become man & servent. Although now physically in human form (void of his heavenly shekinah glory/form) he still posesses his spiritual essense/nature. Witnessed via the numerous miricals he preformed & on the Mt of transfiguration (Mat 17:1–8, Mk 9:2–8, Lk 9:28–36) when his earthly form/essense/nature is changed into visible glory.

Phil 2:6 a very misinterpreted verse:

Thayer
2470 ísos – equality; having the same (similar) level or value; equivalent, equal in substance or quality

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Philippians 2:6; the word is in the neuter plural, lit., "equalities;" "in the RV the words are translated 'on an equality with God,' instead of 'equal with God,

Strongs
https://studybible.info/TR-KJV_Strongs-ERV/Philippians 2:6. ER Version (i) 6 who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

AMP Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

English Revised Version Phil 2:6 who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

Darby Phil 2:6 who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God;

NASB Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NIV Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)

Spiritual oneness:

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(NOTE: Spiritually one)

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness, here, includes Father, Son & all believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit)

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness, here, includes Father, Son & all believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit)

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
(NOTE: Does one body here = one person? NO! The millions/billions etc = One Spiritual Body)

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(NOTE: Christ is the head of the church: He is the saviour of a large/numerous "Spiritual body of one")

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(NOTE: The HEAD of Christ, is God the Father)

Father is a TITLE, the Son was sent by his Father (Jn 3:16). The Son is our creator Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16 & 17, 1 Cor 8:6 therefore he's our Father. Rev 19:13 Christ is called the Word, Jn 1:1 the Word was with God & the Word was God.s

The Son is the agent by whom the Father works within our universe & preserves all things in this realm. After creation the Son rested from creative works. After the finished the work of redemption (Jn 19:30) the Son goes to Heaven (Beyond our realm) & sits down next at the right hand of the Father, NOT next to himself).

The Son, sent by the Father (Jn 3:16) is PREEMINENT in ALL things within our realm:

Creation (listed above), Redemption (Jn 19:30), Resurrection (1 Cor 15:20-28), Mediation (1 Tim 2:5) & Judgement (Jn 5:22).
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#30
Scripture proclaims: The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are all God.

Jesus is God: Isa 7:14 & 9:6, Micah 5:2, Matt 1:23, Jn 1:1 & 20:28, 1 Tim 3:16 Titus 2:13 Rom 9:5 Rev 1:8.

Holy Spirit (alway's capitalized showing deity) is God: Ps 139:7-8, Acts 5:3-4 & 13:2, Eph 4:30, 1 Cor 2:10-11, 12:4-7, 2 Cor 3:16 & 13:14

Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(NOTE: The Hebrew word Echad translates One. However, echad/one, means UNITY not SINGULARITY. Another example of echad: Gen 2:24 echad speaks about the husband & wife being ONE flesh. Husband & wife aren't a singular being. They are in unity with each other.)


The Son begins in his Godly form, seperates/divest himself to become man & servent. Although now physically in human form (void of his heavenly shekinah glory/form) he still posesses his spiritual essense/nature. Witnessed via the numerous miricals he preformed & on the Mt of transfiguration (Mat 17:1–8, Mk 9:2–8, Lk 9:28–36) when his earthly form/essense/nature is changed into visible glory.

Phil 2:6 a very misinterpreted verse:

Thayer
2470 ísos – equality; having the same (similar) level or value; equivalent, equal in substance or quality

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Philippians 2:6; the word is in the neuter plural, lit., "equalities;" "in the RV the words are translated 'on an equality with God,' instead of 'equal with God,

Strongs
https://studybible.info/TR-KJV_Strongs-ERV/Philippians 2:6. ER Version (i) 6 who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

AMP Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

English Revised Version Phil 2:6 who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

Darby Phil 2:6 who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God;

NASB Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NIV Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Jn 17:5 O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(NOTE: Before the world began, the Son, enjoyed glory "WITH" the Father. "NOT AS" the Father)

Spiritual oneness:

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(NOTE: Spiritually one)

Jn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness)

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness, here, includes Father, Son & all believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit)

Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(NOTE: Spiritual oneness, here, includes Father, Son & all believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit)

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
(NOTE: Does one body here = one person? NO! The millions/billions etc = One Spiritual Body)

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(NOTE: Christ is the head of the church: He is the saviour of a large/numerous "Spiritual body of one")

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
(NOTE: The HEAD of Christ, is God the Father)

Father is a TITLE, the Son was sent by his Father (Jn 3:16). The Son is our creator Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16 & 17, 1 Cor 8:6 therefore he's our Father. Rev 19:13 Christ is called the Word, Jn 1:1 the Word was with God & the Word was God.s

The Son is the agent by whom the Father works within our universe & preserves all things in this realm. After creation the Son rested from creative works. After the finished the work of redemption (Jn 19:30) the Son goes to Heaven (Beyond our realm) & sits down next at the right hand of the Father, NOT next to himself).

The Son, sent by the Father (Jn 3:16) is PREEMINENT in ALL things within our realm:

Creation (listed above), Redemption (Jn 19:30), Resurrection (1 Cor 15:20-28), Mediation (1 Tim 2:5) & Judgement (Jn 5:22).
The Word BECAME FLESH....
Phils 2...He's equal with... but not thee...
He took the likeness of men
Very clear..the Head of Christ..is God..the Father...

Please watch the video...you will see an even greater God even the Father...and a obedient Son of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#31
In all the verses you quote not any of them said one true God.
Every verse that refers to the one true God does not necessarily include "one true". But of course you are bound and determined to promote false doctrine, so it would not matter.

The one true God is also the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore the first mention of God is a uni-plural word --ELOHIM -- in Genesis I:1. And that is why we have these statements in Genesis:

PLURALITY
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: (Gen 1:26)

SINGULARITY
So God created man in his own image...(Gen 1:27)

PLURALITY
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil... (Gen 3:22)

SINGULARITY
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims...(Gen 3:24)

In spite of all this (and the Scriptures already given), you will continue to push and promote your false doctrine about God, and I (and others) would be very surprised if you honestly admitted that you have been deceived, and you have repented of your false beliefs.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#32
Every verse that refers to the one true God does not necessarily include "one true". But of course you are bound and determined to promote false doctrine, so it would not matter.

The one true God is also the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore the first mention of God is a uni-plural word --ELOHIM -- in Genesis I:1. And that is why we have these statements in Genesis:

PLURALITY
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: (Gen 1:26)

SINGULARITY
So God created man in his own image...(Gen 1:27)

PLURALITY
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil... (Gen 3:22)

SINGULARITY
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims...(Gen 3:24)

In spite of all this (and the Scriptures already given), you will continue to push and promote your false doctrine about God, and I (and others) would be very surprised if you honestly admitted that you have been deceived, and you have repented of your false beliefs.
The verses you quoted above are all true...the word was with God in the beginning.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#34
I just have to ask, are these your YouTube videos?