Only 2 ways to heaven according to scripture!

[WiseSam]

You do understand many people do it to earn salvation do you not? I am talking how one gets saved, not how one becomes like Christ, that is a different subject altogether.



Tell me. Do you think you can lose salvation if you do not obey?

and second. this response was not directed at you.. so why did you get so offended?

what on earth makes you think i "got so offended"? can i not respond with my thoughts without being accused of getting angry or getting offended? those people who attempt to earn their salvation are sadly deceived. there is NO earning it. but at the same time i do not believe in the once saved always saved theory. if it were not possible to lose ones salvation, the topic would never have been raised in scripture, which it has in several places. no one and nothing can remove us from the hand of GOD...however, we ourselves can do that. i do think though that when it speaks of those saved, it is possible it speaks of two views...the people who believe they are saved and those who really are. from my own personal experience in my walk with GOD, i find it very difficult to believe anyone would desire to turn away from GOD after once having followed HIM, yet i see many people say they were once christians and then they got smart and became atheists...i think such people believed they were saved at one time, but found it to difficult to walk that path, so rejected it. i think anyone who desires GOD above all things can never leave, and i believe they are the ones who are saved in truth. for them it is once saved always saved because they cannot bear to reject GOD or HIS Son the CHRIST. for those people they cannot bear to be disobedient...obeying GOD is not about earning anything, it is about love, they will not lose their salvation by disobedience because they will not disobey...the way i look at it is this...one cannot serve GOD, love GOD and be disobedient, that is rebellion. CHRIST said "if you say you love GOD, yet do not obey< the truth is not in you"...why would CHRIST say such a think unless we are expected to obey? and also "If you love ME, keep MY commandments".

 

[craftycat]

I believe we are saved through faith but as the Bible states we are unable on our own to do the whole law, thus Christ came and gave us his Holy Spirit to write it on our hearts, resulting in us wanting to do the right things.

 

[mark54]

I believe we are saved through faith but as the Bible states we are unable on our own to do the whole law, thus Christ came and gave us his Holy Spirit to write it on our hearts, resulting in us wanting to do the right things.[/QUOTE]

Amen, a very important part of the new covenant

 

[craftycat]

As per dog returning to its vomit.....there is also the parable of the Prodical son...this happens a lot to christian children, from my observations. So we cannot really say that some people will be cut-off.

We also need to be careful that in judging, we do not hinder those that really wish to return. I have seen people miserable because they think they are cut-off or that they have done the unforgiveable sin...Heb.

 

[craftycat]

what on earth makes you think i "got so offended"? can i not respond with my thoughts without being accused of getting angry or getting offended? those people who attempt to earn their salvation are sadly deceived. there is NO earning it. but at the same time i do not believe in the once saved always saved theory. if it were not possible to lose ones salvation, the topic would never have been raised in scripture, which it has in several places. no one and nothing can remove us from the hand of GOD...however, we ourselves can do that. i do think though that when it speaks of those saved, it is possible it speaks of two views...the people who believe they are saved and those who really are. from my own personal experience in my walk with GOD, i find it very difficult to believe anyone would desire to turn away from GOD after once having followed HIM, yet i see many people say they were once christians and then they got smart and became atheists...i think such people believed they were saved at one time, but found it to difficult to walk that path, so rejected it. i think anyone who desires GOD above all things can never leave, and i believe they are the ones who are saved in truth. for them it is once saved always saved because they cannot bear to reject GOD or HIS Son the CHRIST. for those people they cannot bear to be disobedient...obeying GOD is not about earning anything, it is about love, they will not lose their salvation by disobedience because they will not disobey...the way i look at it is this...one cannot serve GOD, love GOD and be disobedient, that is rebellion. CHRIST said "if you say you love GOD, yet do not obey< the truth is not in you"...why would CHRIST say such a think unless we are expected to obey? and also "If you love ME, keep MY commandments".

Sorry but I do need to say we are all different....I did disappoint God and turned away at one point because of some major trauma. It really depends on what a person goes through sometimes. Job held and God called him perfect, however I did return. We also have the story of the prodical son, whom returned.

 

[mark54]

As per dog returning to its vomit.....there is also the parable of the Prodical son...this happens a lot to christian children, from my observations. So we cannot really say that some people will be cut-off.

We also need to be careful that in judging, we do not hinder those that really wish to return. I have seen people miserable because they think they are cut-off or that they have done the unforgiveable sin...Heb.

Absolutely, many are convinced they have committed the unforgiveable sin. But you know, in my youth I rebelled greatly and caused my parents much sorrow, but they never rejected me, I was their son, part of their family, they loved me. And I have to aks myself, does God love his children less than a human parent loves their offspring?

In my own life I have found that when I have turned form doing what God wanted situations got so bad I came running back, more prepared to bow the knee. I tend to think that when we err God loves us far too much to let us get away with our folly and allows situations to develop in our lives that become impossible for us to deal with so we then come to our senses and run to him, ever more chastened and humbled in our walk
That's how I see it anyway, providing a true conversion has taken place

 

[crossnote]

Just having faith in Jesus alone is an easy path to follow for salvation and billions will be saved.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it
Mat 7:13

Jesus said many will go down the easy path but the gate to salvation is narrow. It is not the easy way many are on now. I would seriously reconsider the throwing out of the law that God spent thousands of years revealing.

I think you are stumbling over the concept of 'faith in Jesus alone' when you use the revealing word 'just'.
True faith in Jesus alone involves no longer belonging to self but to Him; and He may take you to situations that it is a choice of 'deny Christ or die!'...you may not find that such an easy path after all, but it is a path of 'Just having faith in Jesus alone'

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Actually the two ways are:

1. You die in Christ.
2. Christ raptures you.

lolol...

 

[crossnote]

Was that a response?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what on earth makes you think i "got so offended"?

Maybe the way you said things.. Maybe you should read what you write before ya hit send?

can i not respond with my thoughts without being accused of getting angry or getting offended? those people who attempt to earn their salvation are sadly deceived. there is NO earning it. but at the same time i do not believe in the once saved always saved theory.

In other words, you have fooled yourself into thinking you are not trying to earn your salvation.

Fact is, if you do not believe we are saved eternally by the grace of God, and GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE as a gift. yu are trying to earn your salvation. in whatever means you think you must perform in order to keep the gift God gave you.. Which means your do not believe in the gift. but the reward given to those who earn it.

if it were not possible to lose ones salvation, the topic would never have been raised in scripture, which it has in several places.

It is not raised. it is just people misinterpretation of a few passages which causes it to be raised.

Scripture can not contradict itself. God did not call it conditional life, he called it eternal life, eternal justification. eternal passing from death to life. whatever you call it. if it is not eternal God lied.

no one and nothing can remove us from the hand of GOD...however, we ourselves can do that.

You just contradicted yourself. Your stating No one.. but me (who is a someone) so in reality, saying no one is not true. because someone can (according to you me)

And this goes against scripture. God said he would never leave us nor forsake us, he would leave the whole flock to get the one lost sheep.. So you are saying I am more powerful than God and can actually hide from him where he can;t find me.. Oh if you only knew what your belief teaches about God and how it belittles him. and his gift.

i do think though that when it speaks of those saved, it is possible it speaks of two views...the people who believe they are saved and those who really are. from my own personal experience in my walk with GOD, i find it very difficult to believe anyone would desire to turn away from GOD after once having followed HIM,

Actually the apostle john spoke on this subject. about being part of the church, then departing (leaving God) He tells us plainly they were never saved to begin with, because if they were of us (saved) they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT. So you should not only think it is difficult. but understand scripture says it is impossible.

yet i see many people say they were once christians and then they got smart and became atheists...i think such people believed they were saved at one time, but found it to difficult to walk that path, so rejected it. i think anyone who desires GOD above all things can never leave, and i believe they are the ones who are saved in truth. for them it is once saved always saved because they cannot bear to reject GOD or HIS Son the CHRIST. for those people they cannot bear to be disobedient...obeying GOD is not about earning anything, it is about love, they will not lose their salvation by disobedience because they will not disobey...the way i look at it is this...one cannot serve GOD, love GOD and be disobedient, that is rebellion. CHRIST said "if you say you love GOD, yet do not obey< the truth is not in you"...why would CHRIST say such a think unless we are expected to obey? and also "If you love ME, keep MY commandments".

This is why I get so angry. Scripture says those born of God can not sin (live in sin) that those who claim to have faith. but have ZERO works are not saved, and have never been saved. That those who attempt to turn the grace of God into licentiousness have not only never been saved, but condemned from the beginning..

So why do people want to twist this by saying someone who is saved MUST do works. when scripture says they WILL do the works of God?

there are two sides apposed to the faith doctrine.

the legalist who basis his or her salvation on works.. they do not believe in eternal security because they are still trusting self.

The licentious. who has never repented. and have mere belief,, who turn the grace of God into licentiousness, they believe in eternal security, because it is all they have.. They want the best of both worlds. and they really do not have faith in Christ (thus no works, no change in life) but they want what Christ offers.

Both come from pride and a refusal to repent. And both will be lost unless they humble themselves to trust God and recieve his GIFT.

A gift can not be earned. or else it is not a gift..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As per dog returning to its vomit.....there is also the parable of the Prodical son...this happens a lot to christian children, from my observations. So we cannot really say that some people will be cut-off.

We also need to be careful that in judging, we do not hinder those that really wish to return. I have seen people miserable because they think they are cut-off or that they have done the unforgiveable sin...Heb.

A dog returns to his vomit because he was not made a new creature. He tried a new trick (christianity) but it was against his true nature. so as always a dog will always return to what he knows.

I do agree. Satan wants to get in our head. and tell us God will not love us unconditionally. That is why so many good hearted christians are taken out, and left on the sidelines. Because even a person trusting Christ alone can become legalistic in their minds, and question their own eternity.. That is why Grace and unconditional forgiveness for eternity must be taught. while at the same time, teaching righteous living ,and the means of how this is accomplished.. Only through knowing the love and forgiveness of God can we learn to learn love and forgiveness of others.. and only then can we mature to christians who do wonderous works for God.

That is why legalism is so dangerous. and why I fight it so hard.. Yes licentiousness needs to be fought,, but I do not see many of them.. Legalism is far more dangerous than licentiousness. Because people can spot a licentious belief only person. they have no works.. Legalists look religious, and they are sincere.. thus they are for more dangerous!

 

[HoldingOn2013]

There is so much "i think" or "i believe" being said here. I know that it's impossible to communicate without putting those terms in, but in reading this thread it just jumps out at me constantly. That's why so many people (such as myself) find themselves either confused or conflicted in so many topics.

After all is said and done God will decide and judge us based on what is in our hearts, not what we have looked like to the world. Isn't that a relief! That we can live our life and trust God sees who we really are.

But to get back to the topic... Salvation is a gift from God and we are free to choose life or death. Following or keeping the law is an impossible task because we ARE sinners. We are in the flesh. But we as Christians should feel the Holy Spirit in us. We are reminded and feel the conviction when we sin which happens daily and then we ask for forgiveness and have real heart felt repentance.

It has been repeated here that faith without works is dead which goes without saying. You will have fruit in your life once you are a Christian. If you have none then something is really really wrong. But that's not to say that someone who is struggling with a sin is not saved. We have to trust God is working with them via the Holy Spirit. Aren't we all works in progress? I know I am and FAR from perfect.....
[h=3]Matthew 7:14-16[/h]Amplified Bible (AMP) [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the gate is narrow (contracted [SUP][a][/SUP]by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, who come to you dressed as sheep, but inside they are devouring wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will [SUP][b][/SUP]fully recognize them by their fruits. Do people pick grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

Works will not gain you anything other than looking the part to the world and I for one don't care what people think about me. I am more concerned about having a right standing with God. Developing the relationship with God through Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit to help and guide me in this carnal life.

We should focus on our personal relationship with God and all other things will become clear to us as God sees fit.

 

[WiseSam]

Maybe the way you said things.. Maybe you should read what you write before ya hit send?


In other words, you have fooled yourself into thinking you are not trying to earn your salvation.

Fact is, if you do not believe we are saved eternally by the grace of God, and GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE as a gift. yu are trying to earn your salvation. in whatever means you think you must perform in order to keep the gift God gave you.. Which means your do not believe in the gift. but the reward given to those who earn it.



It is not raised. it is just people misinterpretation of a few passages which causes it to be raised.

Scripture can not contradict itself. God did not call it conditional life, he called it eternal life, eternal justification. eternal passing from death to life. whatever you call it. if it is not eternal God lied.



You just contradicted yourself. Your stating No one.. but me (who is a someone) so in reality, saying no one is not true. because someone can (according to you me)

And this goes against scripture. God said he would never leave us nor forsake us, he would leave the whole flock to get the one lost sheep.. So you are saying I am more powerful than God and can actually hide from him where he can;t find me.. Oh if you only knew what your belief teaches about God and how it belittles him. and his gift.



Actually the apostle john spoke on this subject. about being part of the church, then departing (leaving God) He tells us plainly they were never saved to begin with, because if they were of us (saved) they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT. So you should not only think it is difficult. but understand scripture says it is impossible.



This is why I get so angry. Scripture says those born of God can not sin (live in sin) that those who claim to have faith. but have ZERO works are not saved, and have never been saved. That those who attempt to turn the grace of God into licentiousness have not only never been saved, but condemned from the beginning..

So why do people want to twist this by saying someone who is saved MUST do works. when scripture says they WILL do the works of God?

there are two sides apposed to the faith doctrine.

the legalist who basis his or her salvation on works.. they do not believe in eternal security because they are still trusting self.

The licentious. who has never repented. and have mere belief,, who turn the grace of God into licentiousness, they believe in eternal security, because it is all they have.. They want the best of both worlds. and they really do not have faith in Christ (thus no works, no change in life) but they want what Christ offers.

Both come from pride and a refusal to repent. And both will be lost unless they humble themselves to trust God and recieve his GIFT.

A gift can not be earned. or else it is not a gift..

wow! ok, i can see this is going nowhere fast. i refuse to continue a conversation when it merely goes in circles. i have shared my thoughts on the matter, if you cannot accept them and must feel the need to condemn me and those like me because we believe differently than you do, perhaps you need to take a step back and take a good look at your own walk. in all honesty, if you do not feel obeying is important, then that is between GOD and you, and if i feel that obedience IS important, then that is between GOD any myself. only GOD has the right to judge who is right and who is wrong. it is certainly nothing to argue over. i joined this threads conversation because i thought we could all share our own views and beliefs without being judged for them...i guess i was wrong. and i seriously hate talking to people who insist on imbuing emotions or meanings into simple straightfoward sentences. you remind me of my sister who confuses love for hate.

 

[Desoto]

Unfortunately, I agree with the woman's assessment. It appears that many Pastors think that the way to holiness is thru correction, admonishments, criticisms and warnings as if we could be delivered by our will power. Scripture is very clear that our deliverance from shortcomings will only be by grace. As we see Jesus, we are transformed.

 

[Desoto]

While it is absolutely true, we do good because we love God and are thankful for what the Lord has done for us, it must also be said that the plan of God for our bearing "fruits of righteousness," is centered around the truth that we have first received His great love for us. To be effective in the Kingdom, we love others out of the love that we receive. Appreciate your thoughts

 

[Desoto]

I'll just add that faith works by understanding God's love for you, not by your self-generated efforts to love others. We love because God first loves and keeps on loving us.

 

[Desoto]

Those that seek to be righteous by the works of the law are fallen from grace. This reveals that God's New Covenant of Grace is higher than our self efforts at holiness. Jesus did not say that it is a wide path to hell. He said that wide is the path that leads to destruction. Can you see how many Christians die of needless ills, are miserably unhappy and look no different than the unsaved. This is not the will of God. The narrow path of salvation is NOT a reference to eternity but a reference to the life of all that salvation is: soteria in the greek... healing, deliverance, preservation and soundness etc. Jesus made eternity simple

 

[doulos]

According to scripture. there are only two ways to heaven. not the many different ways we have been hearing here on Christian chat. So what are they?

1. The law.

According to scripture. if one fulfills the law completely. he has earned the right to heaven. Unfortunately, also according to scripture. only 1 person in the whole of history has accomplished this fact. and that man is Jesus.

Thus we have a problem. Since non of us have done this. the law turns to something else. It condemns us. If I sin only one time my whole life. I have earned, not entrance to heaven, But eternal damnation. Thus I can not consider myself more holy or righteous than anyone else who ever lived on earth. because according to God. I am just as guilty as they are.

If I do only parts of the law. but neglect the rest. I have failed to fulfill the law. And even if I followed every tradition and work of the law. but mess up on one point, as James said, I am found guilty of the whole law.

You see the law comes as a package. Do it 100 % or it is of no value to us as far as saving us.

2. Faith in the work of Christ.

Scripture tells us Christ not only fulfilled the law completely. he also fulfilled the law on our behalf.

1. He who knew no sin became sin for us (he took our sin on his body)
2. He because the lamb of God, who gave his life for the sin of the world (he fulfilled the reuirements of animal sacrifice)
3. He through his word, cleanses us from all unrighteousness through the HS (fulfills the cleansing ritual of the law, such as circumcision)

Since we failed at number one, the only thing we have left is number 2. Are we going to trust Christ and his promise, based on his fulfilling the law on our behalf. or are we going to try to go back under law and try to save ourselves?

God said he saved us based on the following

1. Our trust in his work
2. His knowledge of our heart, and our whole life from birth to death (he knows everything we have done,m are doing and will do)
3. based on his promise of eternal life to ALL who believe.

the question I have is this.

if the law can't save us. why do people say:

we must make ourselves right before we can be saved, or after we are saved, make ourselves right to keep our salvation when the law states nothing short of 100 % obedience is required?

We must add works to our faith, in the form of water baptism, communion, carrying our cross. or whatever ritual people have come up with to "perfect there salvation" which were never a part of the law to begin with. and are just people replacing traditions and works of the law with other traditions and works, and claiming they are required by God. No work of the law could ever save anyone, so why would people say these works God gave us are required? saying this leaves all people in the OT out of heaven, because they were not given these works.

Scripture says only one thing leads to condemnation. He who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the only name of the son of God.

if unbelief is the only means of condemnation. then can you explain how God is going to save us today, and take our salvation back later if we do not do his rules and live up to his standard? (which again, is perfection)

I like what paul said..

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[SUP][a][/SUP] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

so why is it so many people have been fooled into thinking we must perfect what christ did, or we will not be saved? How can I do any good deed which would surpass what Christ did for me?

Actually there is only one way to heaven according to Christ.
Joh 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

There has never been any other way, even Old Testament saints like Abraham, Moses had to be born again if they were to see the kingdom of God
This also confirmed by;
1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The only difference between a Old Testament saint and the New Testament saint is the method that God used to revealed Himself {Old or New Covenant). To the Old Testament saint (saints like Abraham, and Moses) came to know Christ through the Old Testament Scriptures and as a result were saved by placing their faith in their beloved Messiah who had not yet made His earthly appearance..Where as a New Testament saint looks backward and places his faith in Christ based on our knowlege of the first advent of Christ.

No point in confusing people by saying there is two ways to see the kingdom of God and then turn around in the same post and demonstrate that in reality there is only one way. While it may not confuse the born again believer, it might confuse the nonbeliever that enters this forum and reads your posts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wow! ok, i can see this is going nowhere fast. i refuse to continue a conversation when it merely goes in circles. i have shared my thoughts on the matter, if you cannot accept them and must feel the need to condemn me and those like me because we believe differently than you do, perhaps you need to take a step back and take a good look at your own walk. in all honesty, if you do not feel obeying is important, then that is between GOD and you, and if i feel that obedience IS important, then that is between GOD any myself.

this is the issue right here! what makes you think I do not think it is important. this is the lie you all come to in order to convince yourselves your right? we are talking about HOW one gets saved, not what one does after we are saved.

if you read what I posted, you will see I showed those who are born again WILL be obedient. Scripture says they will. they can not live in sin because God is in them. When they fall or stumble. God brings them back up through his chastening.

it is this crap that says obedience is REQUIRED that makes it a false doctrine. because you are depending on self to save you and Not God.. and yes, This I will fight tooth and nail, because it leads people to hell.

only GOD has the right to judge who is right and who is wrong. it is certainly nothing to argue over. i joined this threads conversation because i thought we could all share our own views and beliefs without being judged for them...i guess i was wrong. and i seriously hate talking to people who insist on imbuing emotions or meanings into simple straightfoward sentences. you remind me of my sister who confuses love for hate.

You need to read you own words.. you come off as sarcastic.. and demand everyone to be nice to you? Your the one who started it with your tone.. not me.. so don't get all upset when someone responds back to you in your own tone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Unfortunately, I agree with the woman's assessment. It appears that many Pastors think that the way to holiness is thru correction, admonishments, criticisms and warnings as if we could be delivered by our will power. Scripture is very clear that our deliverance from shortcomings will only be by grace. As we see Jesus, we are transformed.

yes, the more we see his true love, the more capacity we have to love others. and the more our ability to live like him comes through, this is called spiritual maturity.