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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#41
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#41
p_rehbein said:
Are you saying that we can sin as we please and it will have no effect on our stance with God? Seriously?

Our sins that we have been cleansed of by the precious blood of Christ are the sins we repented of, confessed of, and asked forgiveness of when we asked Christ to become Lord of our lives. That DOES NOT give us "free reign" to do as we wish from then on out ya know.

If a believer sins, God will not abide with sin, so, how does that not cause a problem for the believer. Now, if they repent, and ask God to forgive them their sin, He is surely just to do so. the "cleansing/salvation" action of the blood of Christ must be asked for. God doesn't have a giant water gun that He just sprays all around. :)

Believers who sin, and do not repent, are living in disobedience to God. Anyone who believes they cal live their lives in disobedience to God and STILL be saved has a sore, sorrowful awakening in their future.
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Anyone that believes they can lose salvation must serve a weak inept god that does not keep his word, has no power and is not worthy of worship....

We are KEPT by the power of God through faith

I will NEVER LEAVE OR FORAKE THEE

The gifts of God are irrevocable

We are saved to the uttermost

We are SEALED with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE

We are in the Father's Hand and in thr SON'S HAND

NOTHING SHALL SEPARATE us from the love of Christ

He that believes on the son is having EVERLASTING LIFE

Etc.

Verb tense, Context, Verbiage, The bible teaches eternal security and not some wishy washy losable salvation that can be forfeit or lost like a dime in the park....

Unless you reject about half the bible, are in a religion that disregards the power, promises and work of Christ and or are just plain ignorant of scripture......while being oblivious to who is chastened and why!
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#42
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
#42
p_rehbein said:
Are you saying that we can sin as we please and it will have no effect on our stance with God? Seriously?

Our sins that we have been cleansed of by the precious blood of Christ are the sins we repented of, confessed of, and asked forgiveness of when we asked Christ to become Lord of our lives. That DOES NOT give us "free reign" to do as we wish from then on out ya know.

If a believer sins, God will not abide with sin, so, how does that not cause a problem for the believer. Now, if they repent, and ask God to forgive them their sin, He is surely just to do so. the "cleansing/salvation" action of the blood of Christ must be asked for. God doesn't have a giant water gun that He just sprays all around. :)

Believers who sin, and do not repent, are living in disobedience to God. Anyone who believes they cal live their lives in disobedience to God and STILL be saved has a sore, sorrowful awakening in their future.
Click to expand...
With your words from the Word in mind we must all be conscious that sin is breaking the law.

This is why Jesuis teaches we are to never teach against even the least of the laws.

Now, it is up to the individual believer to learn from Jesus just what this means. I know, I have shared with many, but just as Jesus taught me, there are many6 who close their ears to understanding.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#43
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#43
JaumeJ said:
With your words from the Word in mind we must all be conscious that sin is breaking the law.

This is why Jesuis teaches we are to never teach against even the least of the laws.

Now, it is up to the individual believer to learn from Jesus just what this means. I know, I have shared with many, but just as Jesus taught me, there are many6 who close their ears to understanding.
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Those that have been born again are not under law anymore and only JESUS as a man In the flesh was able to keep the law perfectly.

Remember what JESUS said to the rich young ruler when he asked JESUS,good master what must I do to Inherit Eternal Life?

JESUS said,why do you call me good,there Is only one that Is good and that Is GOD,

Then HE said to him you know the commandments and HE was talking about the Ten Commandments under law because HE had not went to the cross yet.

And we know that the rich young ruler could not have been perfect under the law,only JESUS could have done that.

There Is only one way to be perfect the way our father In heaven Is perfect and that Is to believe In the WORD of GOD,JESUS who made this all possible by shedding HIS blood on the cross satisfying a righteous GOD and making grace available to all who believe In HIM.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#44
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
#44
The Holy Spirit has never told me to ignore the teaching of Jesus Christ, and it is the same for Jew and gentile alike for all He taught was the good news.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#45
Dec 9, 2011
14,111
1,798
113
#45
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#46
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
#46
No man can change the teaching of Jesus Christ about the law that remains. Yes we do break the law fro timeto time and we are forgiven providing we are repented of it.

What jesus teaches about any man teaching against the law deals with that man's eternity……..
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#47
Sep 4, 2013
30,670
6,860
113
#47
The Calvinist's and the Calvinist's Lite guys (OSAS'ers) have one wee problem to deal with which they don't seem to be able to do, other than to either deny it's existence, or simply ignore it.

That would be FREE WILL.

Now, as for the Scripture they love to quote about no power able to tear us from Gods hand.......yes, that is true, but they do not properly understand what they are reading (in my opinion). Look at the Scripture passage:

Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So many times I have stated that the Apostle wrote in two distinct styles: Thus Sayeth the Lord, and It would be better that, I would rather that..........these styles greatly change the scripture(s) they embody. The first is Thus Sayeth the Lord.......no argument, no debate, it is thus sayeth the Lord, and that is final. The second, however, is when Paul speaks his mind, his thoughts, feelings, opinions, and gives his advice/instructions as to what he believes would be best for believers/the Church. These ARE NOT commandments from God, they are Paul's words, and they are NOT meant to be carved in stone.

There are numerous examples of these in his Epistles. The first coming to mind is when he speaks about marriage:

1 Corinthians 7:6) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.


Important statements:

"by permission and not of commandment"
"For I would that all men"
"I command ye, yet not I, but the Lord"
"But the rest I speak, I, not the Lord"

He clearly shows the two styles here in this passage. When reading Paul's Epistles, one has to be able to distinguish one from the other to place the proper importance on what is being said.

How does this relate to the passage in Romans? It relates because what Paul is saying are HIS BELIEFS/FEELINGS/DESIRES, and they are not the Commandment of God. As well, he NEVER states that WE can or can not separate ourselves from God, and THAT is where free will comes into the picture. IF one believes we DO have free will, then one must understand that we DO have the power to separate ourselves from God. NO OTHER POWER.......NO OTHER POWER can do that! We, however, can. Either that, or free will is a lie as the Calvinsits believe.

God/Jesus WILL NEVER leave or forsake us........Jesus said that, and it is in Scripture, and it is Truth! But that does not take away our free will to leave or forsake Him!

Folks can believe as they wish. I am simply saying why I believe as I do. There are numerous Scriptures that speak of believers "falling away" and even Christ Himself said it would happen. I believe Christ. And I also understand when Paul is writing "thus sayeth the Lord," and/or "I would rather that."

(edited to say)

Another instance where folks don't understand Paul's style is when he speaks of the grafting in of the natural branches. Won't post it now...........but folks know what it says. Dealing with all Jews being saved in the end...........This was Paul's OWN desire, and that was the context he wrote it in. And, even then, he placed a "disclaimer" in his comments............."if they continue not in disbelief."

Anyway.............all I have to say on this thread.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#48
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
#48
p_rehbein said:
The Calvinist's and the Calvinist's Lite guys (OSAS'ers) have one wee problem to deal with which they don't seem to be able to do, other than to either deny it's existence, or simply ignore it.

That would be FREE WILL.

Now, as for the Scripture they love to quote about no power able to tear us from Gods hand.......yes, that is true, but they do not properly understand what they are reading (in my opinion). Look at the Scripture passage:

Romans 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So many times I have stated that the Apostle wrote in two distinct styles: Thus Sayeth the Lord, and It would be better that, I would rather that..........these styles greatly change the scripture(s) they embody. The first is Thus Sayeth the Lord.......no argument, no debate, it is thus sayeth the Lord, and that is final. The second, however, is when Paul speaks his mind, his thoughts, feelings, opinions, and gives his advice/instructions as to what he believes would be best for believers/the Church. These ARE NOT commandments from God, they are Paul's words, and they are NOT meant to be carved in stone.

There are numerous examples of these in his Epistles. The first coming to mind is when he speaks about marriage:

1 Corinthians 7:6) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 7) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10) And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.


Important statements:

"by permission and not of commandment"
"For I would that all men"
"I command ye, yet not I, but the Lord"
"But the rest I speak, I, not the Lord"

He clearly shows the two styles here in this passage. When reading Paul's Epistles, one has to be able to distinguish one from the other to place the proper importance on what is being said.

How does this relate to the passage in Romans? It relates because what Paul is saying are HIS BELIEFS/FEELINGS/DESIRES, and they are not the Commandment of God. As well, he NEVER states that WE can or can not separate ourselves from God, and THAT is where free will comes into the picture. IF one believes we DO have free will, then one must understand that we DO have the power to separate ourselves from God. NO OTHER POWER.......NO OTHER POWER can do that! We, however, can. Either that, or free will is a lie as the Calvinsits believe.

God/Jesus WILL NEVER leave or forsake us........Jesus said that, and it is in Scripture, and it is Truth! But that does not take away our free will to leave or forsake Him!

Folks can believe as they wish. I am simply saying why I believe as I do. There are numerous Scriptures that speak of believers "falling away" and even Christ Himself said it would happen. I believe Christ. And I also understand when Paul is writing "thus sayeth the Lord," and/or "I would rather that."

(edited to say)

Another instance where folks don't understand Paul's style is when he speaks of the grafting in of the natural branches. Won't post it now...........but folks know what it says. Dealing with all Jews being saved in the end...........This was Paul's OWN desire, and that was the context he wrote it in. And, even then, he placed a "disclaimer" in his comments............."if they continue not in disbelief."

Anyway.............all I have to say on this thread.
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Brilliant post...……....Thanks, I needed that……..and thank God for the read aloud option here in Windows 10...Edge.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#49
Jul 2, 2011
21,421
6,700
113
#49
People who sin are wretched, ask Paul. "O wretched man that I am." He said this because he confesses though he is alive because of Christ, he is dead because of sin, he does the very thing he hates!

This is true of all who believe, and this is why we need that wonderfula nd constant Mediator, Jesus.

Paul's solution beyond the obvious is thatt he would obey God in his mind……………………. We all face this delimna, but it is ormal and just a small part of our continuous fight in that spiritual battle.

By the reason givinin this post we know that sin yet exists, and sin is breaking the law……..find out from Jesus just how the law is now……...because you and I yet sin...we do not practice sin as a lifestyle, but wretched ones that we are.
 
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