OSAS= House Built on Sand

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I don't think you understand how ridiculous is the suggestion that the God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4) then purposely doesn't reach out and save some and bring them to the truth even though they would have been saved if he would have just reached out to save them.

See, the gospel is already gracious and undeserved and glorious without adding in this Calvinist crap that says some are lost simply because God chose to not save them even though they would have accepted the gospel and have been saved if he'd just reached out to them. Adding that ridiculous twist doesn't make an already glorious gospel now glorious. The gospel is gracious and glorious in that no man can accept the gospel through faith and be saved except that God in his mercy and grace first extends the opportunity and the power to be saved to them.
Are you saying you know the mind of God. Try again. This issue is outside the Apostles Creed therefore it is agree to disagree. But of course you know much better. Guess you are an Armenian. Therefore you hate Calvinism. If you look up on Google there is scripture associated with both Calvinism and Armenianism. Both have scripture backing them up!!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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You do then believe we are eternally secure in Christ or no?........, because on the Not by Works thread you seem to deny this if I remember correctly?
As I have stated several times on this site.

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Good works are not irrelevant, just not a part of salvation and being born again as you state.

Grace/Love delivers us from all of the above.... the saving of the soul, but we have been spritually regenerated and this can never be undone.

Good works spring from the Grace and the Love He pours in our hearts when we walk in the Spirit not the flesh.

Good works should follow being born again, not part of being born again that is my main point.

Perhaps we agree after all. :)
I agree and it agrees with James 2. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Faith produces works. James states faith without works is dead. No works no faith.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

For those who do not believe the gospel, Paul explains why in 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
It's very sobering to consider just how few actually believe the true Gospel, we spend hours knocking on doors and sharing the Gospel with people and sometimes we don't find a single person who is willing to accept the true Gospel.

Everyone thinks they know about Jesus and they all have an opinion about Him, the Muslims say He's just another prophet. The Buddhists see Him as being like Buddha, the Roman Catholics see Him as an important component of their salvation but they add a whole bunch of saints and Mary and sacraments to salvation.

Most Protestants also have a wrong view of who Jesus is, many think He came to offer salvation to the whole world. They don't believe that He came to save those which His Father gave Him, before the foundation of the world.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Yes, we are to speak to others and tell them the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ... not "convict people of their sins". According to John 16, the Comforter convicts the world of sin.
The problem with the softly , softly approach is most people don't see their need of a savior. They say, well I'm not as bad as most people so if God is a good and loving God He will surely forgive me. They always compare themselves to others who they perceive to be worse than they are and they imagine a God who will wink at their sins and let them into heaven.

We must first convict the sinner of their sin before we can offer them salvation, otherwise they see no need for salvation.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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our pastor is encouraged when visitors walk out half way through his sermon. It shows that He is preaching the true Gospel, which is highly offensive to the reprobate.
It also might point to error and that your pastor is not preaching the true Gospel ... which, of course, could never happen in your church. :rolleyes:




Slayer said:
We don't want the reprobate to visit our Church or have any fellowship with them.
Sorta pharisee-ist on your part don't you think?

Seems to me someone hung out with you when you were the "reprobate". Somewhat hypocritical of you to keep your distance from those who are just like you were not so long ago.




Slayer said:
The Bible tells us that we are not to be yoked together with the reprobate.
Do you even know the meaning of that verse?

The verse does not say the believer is to completely disassociate him/herself from everyone and become secluded. Paul clearly states what he means concerning this issue in 1 Cor 5:9-13. We live in the world, but we are not of the world. Do you understand the difference between living in the world but not being of the world?

To be unequally yoked is to join together with unbelievers to the point where we allow the world to influence our thinking and we become conformed to this world rather than transformed by the renewing of our mind.

 
Mar 23, 2016
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We must first convict the sinner of their sin
Again, this is something you are wholly incapable of doing. It is the Holy Spirit Who convicts the sinner of their sin.

We are to preach the gospel of our lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


 
May 20, 2018
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I know I love the Father and believe whole heartedly his word is truth, but I am very disobedient at times (at times I'm more disobedient than obedient) and I hate it because I really do want to obey him because I love him.
I do know that Paul struggled with his sinful nature and said it was not him but the sinful nature causing it. Paul also says that he don't care if others think highly of him, and it doesn't matter what he thinks of himself, that it is God that justifies.
The less my obedience the more grateful for the love and grace of God. I found through my own disobedience and the love and desires in my heart that I have no right to point my fingers and judge anothers heart through minimal actions.
Well I will say that I fall way short in the obedience department, but have strong faith in his love, mercy and grace because you should of seen the evil sin i promoted when he revealed himself to me.
If my perfect eternal bliss is dependent or contingent on my filthy sinful self whatsoever then I am in serious trouble, but I know it's not for everything I do possess was given to me by God. Even my love for and faith in him. He will make sure I reach his destination for His and His only glory.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The problem with the softly , softly approach is most people don't see their need of a savior. They say, well I'm not as bad as most people so if God is a good and loving God He will surely forgive me. They always compare themselves to others who they perceive to be worse than they are and they imagine a God who will wink at their sins and let them into heaven.

We must first convict the sinner of their sin before we can offer them salvation, otherwise they see no need for salvation.
Man can plant the seed of God words and water it with the word. But God alone can cause the growth if there will be growth ,

It is God who can make our hearts soft.

1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Brother you missunderstood me. Of course a Christian can sin horribly. Yet, the Bible also says those who are of Christ have crucified the flesh (Galatians 5:24). God bless you
I do not think that I misunderstood you. . . You said that "a true Christian will never go back to his old life". I asked you if "you have the moral capability within yourself to turn away from God and go your own way?"

For myself, I know that though I am a believer in Christ, I have the moral capability within myself to turn away from God and go my own way. I agree that a Christian can sin horribly, but that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about consciously and purposefully choosing to reject Christ and ongoingly go my own way. It is the grace of God that keeps me saved! Hallelujah!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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My personal belief is that all those who don't believe in election and predestination have been deceived by Satan and they are in grave danger of condemnation. I see it as highly offensive to God, so I can only imagine how God feels about it. To believe that men are saved by making a choice to believe, strips God of His sovereignty and puts wicked man on God's throne.

We are dealing with a very serious issue here, I would advise you to repent and ask God to reveal the truth to you and I believe He will if you ask sincerely. I was liberated after believing what you believe for many years, when God finnaly revealed the truth to me I felt a weight being lifted from my shoulders.

We believe the God preordained the whole history of mankind, from the beginning to the end. This is very comforting truth, it leaves us nothing to worry about. God has secured our salvation and we don't have to worry about sin and it doesn't matter how much we sin we will still inherit eternal life in paradise.

Your view leaves you with a lot to worry about, you don't have the guarantee that we enjoy. We can fully enjoy life knowing God did everything necessary to save us, so we don't have a single worry in the world.
Actually, you missed something! Those of us who believe that we are saved by God grace through our faith have boundless joy and thanksgiving because Jesus Christ daily walks with us giving us victory over sin and we have ongoing deep real fellowship with the King of Kings!

You say our view leaves us "with a lot to worry about?" Sorry, I don't worry about any of the things you mention . . .

You say our views does not have the "guarantee that we enjoy" ?? Actually we have the guarantee of the Holy Spirit! Do you have something better than that?!!
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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It also might point to error and that your pastor is not preaching the true Gospel ... which, of course, could never happen in your church. :rolleyes:





Sorta pharisee-ist on your part don't you think?

Seems to me someone hung out with you when you were the "reprobate". Somewhat hypocritical of you to keep your distance from those who are just like you were not so long ago.





Do you even know the meaning of that verse?

The verse does not say the believer is to completely disassociate him/herself from everyone and become secluded. Paul clearly states what he means concerning this issue in 1 Cor 5:9-13. We live in the world, but we are not of the world. Do you understand the difference between living in the world but not being of the world?

To be unequally yoked is to join together with unbelievers to the point where we allow the world to influence our thinking and we become conformed to this world rather than transformed by the renewing of our mind.
As I said, we don't waste our precious time with those who reject the Gospel. We go after those who respond and show interest, when they hear the Gospel. We don't want to bring the world into our Church, our Church is for believers only. We want to attract believers only and we want to repel non believers.

Yes, I lived as a reprobate for most of my life before I was converted and then I back slid many times after my conversion. God drew me back to Himself every single time. There's no possibility of a single elect person being lost, every single one elect person is 100% guaranteed eternal paradise. So anyone who visits our Church must believe what we believe or they are not welcome.

We are not out to sell salvation like a consumer product, we are seeking the elect of God and when we find them we encourage them to join our Church because we preach the bible faithfully. We never add or subtract anything, we preach the whole counsel of God and yes it is highly offensive to the reprobate and hypocrites who call themselves Christian.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Man can plant the seed of God words and water it with the word. But God alone can cause the growth if there will be growth ,

It is God who can make our hearts soft.

1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
Only the elect of God like the true Gospel message, the rest of mankind hate it and they hate the one who proclaims it. I would venture to say the 95% of those who call themselves Christian, hate the true Gospel, they only love the one they have created in their head. They seek our preachers who preach the false Gospel, they find comfort in it.

The true Gospel reveals that all of mankind is wicked to the core and dead in our trespasses and sin. It reveals that there's nothing good in mankind, it reveals that mankind is utterly dependent on God for his salvation and if God doesn't choose to save him he will spend eternity in hell.

See, 95% of Christian preaches will never preach the true Gospel, they know that they would lose 95% of their congregation if they did so they would rather lie and watch you go straight to hell. Their motivation is the love of money
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Only the elect of God like the true Gospel message, the rest of mankind hate it and they hate the one who proclaims it. I would venture to say the 95% of those who call themselves Christian, hate the true Gospel, they only love the one they have created in their head. They seek our preachers who preach the false Gospel, they find comfort in it.

The true Gospel reveals that all of mankind is wicked to the core and dead in our trespasses and sin. It reveals that there's nothing good in mankind, it reveals that mankind is utterly dependent on God for his salvation and if God doesn't choose to save him he will spend eternity in hell.

See, 95% of Christian preaches will never preach the true Gospel, they know that they would lose 95% of their congregation if they did so they would rather lie and watch you go straight to hell. Their motivation is the love of money
This is a complete fabrication. No facts no basis in scripture pure conjecture and religious hypocrisy.

Typical modern Calvinist attitude. Calvin is right and all others are pure ignorant unregenerate souls. Only Christ can fix what is wrong with this kind of person.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Actually, you missed something! Those of us who believe that we are saved by God grace through our faith have boundless joy and thanksgiving because Jesus Christ daily walks with us giving us victory over sin and we have ongoing deep real fellowship with the King of Kings!

You say our view leaves us "with a lot to worry about?" Sorry, I don't worry about any of the things you mention . . .

You say our views does not have the "guarantee that we enjoy" ?? Actually we have the guarantee of the Holy Spirit! Do you have something better than that?!!
You joy is the result of your choice to believe the Gospel. You are thankful that God gave you a high enough IQ to figure out that you can use your faith to believe the Gospel and cash in on the offer eternal life in paradise, which is made to all mankind.

You are telling me that you used your IQ to crack the code and receive free eternal paradise, so now you boast to everyone how you were smart enough to crack the code while billions of others couldn't break the code so they are going to spend eternity in hell.

Have you ever wondered why you have been blessed with such a high IQ to enable you to crack the code while 90% of mankind can't. Have you wondered why the smartest people in history like Einstein, have all been atheists and why you are smarter than all of them. They choose to spend eternity burning in hell and you chose to spend eternity in cool paradise.

Have you ever pondered any of these things, or do you just accept that you were created vastly superior to the majority of mankind
 
Mar 23, 2016
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We don't want to bring the world into our Church, our Church is for believers only. We want to attract believers only and we want to repel non believers.
Is that what you tell those "sinners" to whom you do not speak the gospel ... that they're only welcome at your "Church" if they are "believers only"?

So, so thankful that my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did not have your attitude.

Philippians 2:

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Only the elect of God like the true Gospel message, the rest of mankind hate it and they hate the one who proclaims it. I would venture to say the 95% of those who call themselves Christian, hate the true Gospel, they only love the one they have created in their head. They seek our preachers who preach the false Gospel, they find comfort in it.

The true Gospel reveals that all of mankind is wicked to the core and dead in our trespasses and sin. It reveals that there's nothing good in mankind, it reveals that mankind is utterly dependent on God for his salvation and if God doesn't choose to save him he will spend eternity in hell.

See, 95% of Christian preaches will never preach the true Gospel, they know that they would lose 95% of their congregation if they did so they would rather lie and watch you go straight to hell. Their motivation is the love of money
That is NOT the Gospel unto Salvation!

What you wrote is mankind's CONDITION. The Gospel is God's remedy FOR that condition.

Just to be clear, THE Gospel unto Salvation is that God became flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, suffered, was crucified, died to pay for our sin, and was raised to life on the 3rd day. Confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, Believe in your heart He was raised to life on the 3rd day, and you WILL be saved.

We are to preach that Gospel in love to ALL men. We are NOT to "search out" the elect. Now I do believe those that will choose to believe that Gospel ARE the elect, but YOU are not to decide who they are. And even those who may appear at 1st to not believe, may be led to later believe, and the seed planted will sprout and grow root.

Also, we are NOT called to hate people. I wish you'd stop saying that. We are called to love people, EVEN our enemies.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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That is NOT the Gospel unto Salvation!

What you wrote is mankind's CONDITION. The Gospel is God's remedy FOR that condition.

Just to be clear, THE Gospel unto Salvation is that God became flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, suffered, was crucified, died to pay for our sin, and was raised to life on the 3rd day. Confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, Believe in your heart He was raised to life on the 3rd day, and you WILL be saved.

We are to preach that Gospel in love to ALL men. We are NOT to "search out" the elect. Now I do believe those that will choose to believe that Gospel ARE the elect, but YOU are not to decide who they are. And even those who may appear at 1st to not believe, may be led to later believe, and the seed planted will sprout and grow root.

Also, we are NOT called to hate people. I wish you'd stop saying that. We are called to love people, EVEN our enemies.
The person who needs to hear your admonition is this poor lads pastor.

Westboro Baptist church never repented of their hateful preaching. Hopefully that will not be case for this fellow and his preacher. God is good and merciful especially to those who deserve it least.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,942
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My personal belief is that all those who don't believe in election and predestination have been deceived by Satan and they are in grave danger of condemnation. I see it as highly offensive to God, so I can only imagine how God feels about it. To believe that men are saved by making a choice to believe, strips God of His sovereignty and puts wicked man on God's throne.

We are dealing with a very serious issue here, I would advise you to repent and ask God to reveal the truth to you and I believe He will if you ask sincerely. I was liberated after believing what you believe for many years, when God finnaly revealed the truth to me I felt a weight being lifted from my shoulders.

We believe the God preordained the whole history of mankind, from the beginning to the end. This is very comforting truth, it leaves us nothing to worry about. God has secured our salvation and we don't have to worry about sin and it doesn't matter how much we sin we will still inherit eternal life in paradise.

Your view leaves you with a lot to worry about, you don't have the guarantee that we enjoy. We can fully enjoy life knowing God did everything necessary to save us, so we don't have a single worry in the world.
It doesn't matter how much you sin!? Dude. It matters. Your mindset is warped.

It's true that Jesus's Sacrifice covers ALL our sin, and He is overjoyed when you return from Prodigal living, and I believe He draws us back, BUT He doesn't draw you back to live a licentious life. There will be a judgement for the LIVING as well as the dead.