OSAS= House Built on Sand

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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5 of the virgins had no oil. They did NOT have the Holy Spirit. Their wicks quickly burned out, just like the plants that sprouted but burnt up and withered BECAUSE they had NO ROOT!

NEITHER had Jesus.
The Bible does not say that they had no oil in their lamps, which they took with them.
They had oil in their lamps, what they did not have was an extra vessel for the oil like the five wise virgins had.
So they had oil in their lamps but because the bridegroom tarried or because he took so long, which the five foolish virgins didn't take into account, their lamps ran out of oil at midnight.
So to say they didn't have the Spirit of God in them, or that they were not enlightened with the truth, would be incorrect or false. They did have oil in their lamps and it was lit. They just did not have an extra vessel filled with oil for their lamps.
And another thing is, the King James and perhaps other versions have that scripture written incorrectly concerning the person not having root in themselves.
The correct or more correct interpretation would be that the word itself did not have root, or deep roots in the heart of the person.
For example, let's say a person hears a word concerning God's desire and ability to heal his children of any and all sicknesses and diseases, because he bore and carried in his body all of those things on the cross at Calvary.
Now let's say they or a loved one or a family member gets sick, and they decide to pray for the person because of the word that is in them. That being, that God will heal his children, their family members, or loved ones.
And because they didn't see immediate results, as it is in most cases, they fall away from believing.
That is because, the word they heard didn't have root in them to where they persisted until they got the results they desired.
The same thing is true concerning salvation.
We are not only healed by the word of God itself, but we are also saved by the same.
We are saved by the word of God abiding in us. That is, so long as it remains in us, we are saved.
I spoke to a former ordained Baptist preacher and his wife who turned atheist, concerning God's existence.
He and his wife turned atheist because this guy claims he died three times and not once did he see God, and therefore because of his personal experience that he put above the word of God, he stopped believing and fell away, and therefore rejected God and Christ as his personal savior.
This is a case where the person not only built his house upon the sand, which would be his personal experience over the word of God, but also where the word of God itself did not take root in the heart of this man or his wife, thereby causing them to Fall Away from God.
That is what that scripture means or what it's talking about.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I thought we were discussing OSAS and not the reprobate, you denied that OSAS was a Biblical doctrine and I proved that it was and now your saying it doesn't apply to the reprobate. Nobody ever said the reprobate were saved in the first place so how can they lose their salvation o_O
Funny! o_O

You gave me some verses that you think prove OSAS and I am asking how they say that "once a person is saved they are always saved"?
They say that the person who is believing in Jesus Christ is secure. They don't say that once a person at a point in time has put their faith in Jesus Christ that they will always be believing in Jesus Christ and they because they put their faith in Jesus Christ at a point in time that that means they will automatically go to heaven even if they become an atheistic mongrel ten time worse than Hitler.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I thought we were discussing OSAS and not the reprobate, you denied that OSAS was a Biblical doctrine and I proved that it was and now your saying it doesn't apply to the reprobate. Nobody ever said the reprobate were saved in the first place so how can they lose their salvation o_O
The promises also don't belong to the person who has stopped believing, not just the person who never believed.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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In each of these passages where these are found--Matt13:12, Matt25:29, Luk19:26 (see below, for one of these texts)--they are all set in the CONTEXT of His Second Coming to the earth [His "RETURN" to the earth] (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom), and not in the context of the Rapture of "the Church which is His body". [see also the other "RETURN" passage, Luk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal (i.e. the earthly MK)]


Note also that the gathering [verb] in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50 is in the exact OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of our Rapture (revealed and explained elsewhere... not in these passages, per contexts).


Matt13 -

"12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,746
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edit:
Matt13 -

"12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."

[contexts: "the kingdom of the heavens [on the earth, upon His RETURN there]" ]
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I appreciate what you're saying here, but it's not always practical to stop and and look for an escape after your eyes just beheld a woman who is wearing very little and exposing a lot of flesh.

You're walking through the mall and she just appears in your line of sight and your eyes quickly behold her and by the time you evaluate the situation, the sin has been committed.
Temptation is not sin. If it was then Jesus is not the perfect Lamb of God.

It's what we do with the tempting thought that determines if that temptation will become sin.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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What you highlighted is Biblical doctrine, do you have a problem with Gods Word?. OSAS is Biblical, those who don't believe Gods Word will disagree. You need to provide scripture to show that OSAS is not Biblical or stop making this outrageous unbiblical claim that a saved person can lose his salvation.

The Bible is crystal clear, those who "lose their salvation" were never true believers. They were never saved in the first place, they are hypocrites and not Christians.
S...,
That is not the way things work in the debateing world;
When you present a position you must present support........in this case scripture. You cannot conclude and then expect opposition to present opposing proof.
That's nuts.
So far, the references I have seen you and other OSAS thinkers present gives no support to the OSAS conclusion. At best it lends itself to G-d's plan of forgiveness.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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This is a very weird discussion.
Someone keeps arguing what amounts to, if you don't have the money God ain't lettin you into heaven.

Are you Monty Python fan there slayer?

Anyone remember the black knight in, Life of Brian? That knight above has no arms. Some slayer.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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I can't believe some who claim to be Christians here, don't even know the basic fundamental ABC's of scripture, it's very sad and it shows the depths of their depravity.
  • John 6:39, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."
John 6:37 “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

John 10:28 “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

John 11:25–26 “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

Romans 8:31–33 “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.”

Romans 8:35–39 “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

1 Peter 1:5 “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
Amen.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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Or, maybe it is because they don't feel worthy. Given they've known themselves and all the evil they've done. Maybe because they can't forgive themselves they think no one else could. Not even God.
The indisputable fact is that He did forgive all sin, over 2000 years ago, and He never asked anyone for permission. He only asks us to believe that He did, for then we can receive the free gift of Salvation. And be resurrected forever, eternally in Jesus Christ. Yet folks believe that what was accomplished is revocable. It's a joke.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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I appreciate what you're saying here, but it's not always practical to stop and and look for an escape after your eyes just beheld a woman who is wearing very little and exposing a lot of flesh.
Are you kidding? That's when you need to look for the escape ... or perhaps you prefer to check out the exposed flesh for a while to satisfy your lust and then ask for forgiveness later? :rolleyes:

Is that satisfying of the flesh really worth leaving the fellowship with the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?




Slayer said:
You're walking through the mall and she just appears in your line of sight and your eyes quickly behold her and by the time you evaluate the situation, the sin has been committed.
I think you need to read the verse again: whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Matt 5:28).

I believe that is the verse you refer to in your post.

In your post, you state you "quickly behold her". In Matt 5:28, Jesus said looketh on a woman to lust after her. That entails more than just a glance. The sin occurs if/when you keep staring to the point where you lust after her.




Slayer said:
Or someone cuts you off in traffic and you blast your horn and yell obscenities at them, then you run and shut the gate after the horse has already bolted!
Nothing wrong with honking the horn. There is something wrong with yelling obscenities. That behavior is indicative of a lack of self-control.

James 3:8 tells us no man can tame his tongue. However, what we can do is not allow our hearts to be turned from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. When our hearts are turned to Him, our mouths will speak of the good treasure He places within.

The next time someone cuts you off, try praying for him or her. Prayer is so beneficial to us and it is such an underutilized method of bringing resolution to a situation.


 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
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The indisputable fact is that He did forgive all sin, over 2000 years ago, and He never asked anyone for permission. He only asks us to believe that He did, for then we can receive the free gift of Salvation. And be resurrected forever, eternally in Jesus Christ. Yet folks believe that what was accomplished is revocable. It's a joke.
A very bad one at that. :(
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Let's start with what the Bible says, not someone's doctrine - . . .

I do not need to "provide scripture to show that OSAS is not Biblical" - you need to provide Scripture to show that it is Biblical!! The Bible is the starting point - not someone's doctrine.
Sorry my friend, If your trying to appose scripture. You need to use it.

As for scripture to show it is right. More than enugh scripture has been given to prove once a person is saved, His eternal life is eternal. Paid by the blood of Christ. Kept by the blood of Christ, Based on his promises, His grace. What he has begin, he will perfect until the day of christ.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Sorry my friend, If your trying to appose scripture. You need to use it.

As for scripture to show it is right. More than enugh scripture has been given to prove once a person is saved, His eternal life is eternal. Paid by the blood of Christ. Kept by the blood of Christ, Based on his promises, His grace. What he has begin, he will perfect until the day of christ.
19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
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Sorry my friend, If your trying to appose scripture. You need to use it.

As for scripture to show it is right. More than enugh scripture has been given to prove once a person is saved, His eternal life is eternal. Paid by the blood of Christ. Kept by the blood of Christ, Based on his promises, His grace. What he has begin, he will perfect until the day of christ.
e...,
Just because you think enough scripture has been listed does not make it a fact.
You are mixing scripture to get at what you want it to reflect and it does not.
If you wish yourself to be led down the wrong road by reflectors of deception then it is your decision.

But, please answer this question;...what does the opposition gain/receive/benefit from your OSAS advocacy by pointing out to you scriptures which clearly concludes that you are being miss led? What benefit is it to anyone...except you?

Further, you and the typical OSAS believer will not even acknowledge that you are wrong by concluding that you are ......saved......while here on this earth. That conclusion wrongly preempts, usurpts, and infringes upon G-d's right and stated position that we will be judged after death. If you are properly .....saved...... here on earth...then why must we be Judged by G-d. I have asked your advocacy this........ many times ..........with no response.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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timed out...
Let me explain the origin of the OSAS conclusion;
After physical death and once G-d judges us and concludes we are worthy to receive eternal salvation...then we are saved and that status can not be lost.
That ....saved .....status has been morphed and applied back here on earth improperly when we use the word ...saved...to describe the process of repentance, water baptism and commitment to live a righteous life.

To be frank .....I doubt G-d appreciates interpretative efforts to preempt His authority and stated plan.