OSAS= House Built on Sand

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Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
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Nothing will change what lost and what found means.


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



JPT
Thats correct..but its not a basis for the Once saved always saved debate!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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we are not saved by command keeping, gentiles are not and never were under the Law.

I never said we are under the law of Moses.


His commandments, not Moses law.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:3-5



His commandments are about Loving God and loving our neighbor.


If we hate our neighbor the we no longer have eternal life dwelling in us.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,113
264
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Thats correct..but its not a basis for the Once saved always saved debate!

It's the basis for the truth.


The doctrine of Christ.


Jesus taught us the truth.


It's up to you to believe or not believe.


Those who do not obey the doctrine of Christ do not have God.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JPT
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
5,476
361
83
I never said we are under the law of Moses.


His commandments, not Moses law.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:3-5



His commandments are about Loving God and loving our neighbor.


If we hate our neighbor the we no longer have eternal life dwelling in us.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
and what are the Commands- believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. same guy, same letter, you deceptively leave this out. on purpose.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
113
I never said we are under the law of Moses.


His commandments, not Moses law.


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:3-5



His commandments are about Loving God and loving our neighbor.


If we hate our neighbor the we no longer have eternal life dwelling in us.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
Jpt..it amazes me how you continually MISS THE POINT of replies sent your way...the previous posters POINT was.. You believe SAVED BY KEEPING...in otherwords DOING (works) ive posted to you this before..in in reply YOU post the commands..lol really? WE all KNOW the commands but that has NOTHING to do with you believing that you have to DO th

at in ORDER TO BE OR KEEP YOUR SALVATION...

LISTEN FIRST to a persons reply THEN speak. I think youre too eager to SPEAK and fail to LISTEN..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
113
It's the basis for the truth.


The doctrine of Christ.


Jesus taught us the truth.


It's up to you to believe or not believe.


Those who do not obey the doctrine of Christ do not have God.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JPT
So..now weve gone off on a tangent of what we believe? Well..ive ppsted that SEVERAL times on here so if you read it..Should be no surprise not CAUSE for me to keep REPEATING myself..tail chasing..tail chasing...
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,113
264
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and what are the Commands- believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. same guy, same letter, you deceptively leave this out. on purpose.

This post is about Loving God and Loving people.


Can you read!


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:3-5



His commandments are about Loving God and loving our neighbor.


If we hate our neighbor the we no longer have eternal life dwelling in us.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,113
264
83
Jpt..it amazes me how you continually MISS THE POINT of replies sent your way...the previous posters POINT was.. You believe SAVED BY KEEPING...in otherwords DOING (works) ive posted to you this before..in in reply YOU post the commands..lol really? WE all KNOW the commands but that has NOTHING to do with you believing that you have to DO th

at in ORDER TO BE OR KEEP YOUR SALVATION...

LISTEN FIRST to a persons reply THEN speak. I think youre too eager to SPEAK and fail to LISTEN..

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,113
264
83
So..now weve gone off on a tangent of what we believe? Well..ive ppsted that SEVERAL times on here so if you read it..Should be no surprise not CAUSE for me to keep REPEATING myself..tail chasing..tail chasing...


Do you believe a born again Christian who begins to be angry with his brother and hate him, still has eternal life in him?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,113
264
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Not one single person from the OSAS camp was able to give an honest answer to this simple question.


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


OSAS is a doctrine of liars.




JPT
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
5,081
650
113
That's correct.






So what you are trying to say is, one of His sheep can never become lost?


We have agreed that the 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep: Born again - Children of God.


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


However, we see from this teaching of Jesus, that His sheep can indeed become lost.


  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

  • likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


The 99 are said to be "just"; Declared by God as right with Him - Righteous


The one who becomes lost, is described by Jesus as a sinner [unjust; not reconciled to God - unrighteous] in need of repentance.


These are the words of Jesus.


Now comes the question to you -


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?




JPT
You ignored a big chunk of my post. Especially the part about Scripture saying NOTHING can separate us from Him.

You also have several times avoided answering whether a born again Child of God who, in YOUR estimation is unjust, and NOT reconciled to God, that is lost eternally, has to be RE-BORN AGAIN.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
5,081
650
113
Not one single person from the OSAS camp was able to give an honest answer to this simple question.


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


OSAS is a doctrine of liars.




JPT
You can tell when someone's doctrine is crumbling. They lash out. So now we're liars.

JPT, you KNOW I have answered that question.
 
Apr 7, 2014
15,437
1,367
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You can tell when someone's doctrine is crumbling. They lash out. So now we're liars.

JPT, you KNOW I have answered that question.
I also answered his question. The sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts! Which explains why he is lashing out.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,189
192
63
I believe that once i was saved i have COMPLETE ASSURANCE that i AM and will REMAIN saved BUT the video that was posted is NOT the saved by grace..its a perversion so you cant compare the two..if your ONLY understanding is the OSAS video..i feel sorry for you..especially for the fact that you have NO ASSURANCE in salvation unless you CONTINUE to do good works and you have NO true knowledge of God..whay Jesus accomplished on the cross and NO knowlege of His AMAZING GRACE...
Whoa, wait a minute!

Are you saying this about Ralph? "especially for the fact that you have NO ASSURANCE in salvation unless you CONTINUE to do good works and you have NO true knowledge of God..whay Jesus accomplished on the cross and NO knowlege of His AMAZING GRACE."

Has Ralph said that? I surely do not agree with Ralph about a lot of things, but I haven't seen him say that! Or, am I missing something?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,189
192
63
I also answered his question. The sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts! Which explains why he is lashing out.
You can tell when someone's doctrine is crumbling. They lash out. So now we're liars.

JPT, you KNOW I have answered that question.
Ooooh! Ouuuuuch! Bang! Snap! OOOOOOhhhhhhh!
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
113
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands.
We recieve the Holy Spirit when we are saved and AFTER the salvation..its a given that if we LOVE HIM we will STRIVE to keep his commands..like the command to go amd witness etc but we dont EARN our salvation BY keeping the commands..thats backwards...and theres more commands in the Bible than the 10 ;)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
5,476
361
83
Not one single person from the OSAS camp was able to give an honest answer to this simple question.


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


OSAS is a doctrine of liars.




JPT
I will answer this directly- yes, the sheep is still a sheep, and still in the flock as long as it accepts the Shepherd as the Lord and Savior.

unless the sheep has outright rebelled, and looked at the Shepherd and said " you are no longer my Shepherd, I go my own way", if that does not happen, then the sheep is still in the flock.

now, do not say no one has not answered this again, if you do so, then you will a liar and outright sinner.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
113
Whoa, wait a minute!

Are you saying this about Ralph? "especially for the fact that you have NO ASSURANCE in salvation unless you CONTINUE to do good works and you have NO true knowledge of God..whay Jesus accomplished on the cross and NO knowlege of His AMAZING GRACE."

Has Ralph said that? I surely do not agree with Ralph about a lot of things, but I haven't seen him say that! Or, am I missing something?
Yes..saying it to Ralph ;) had you worried though didnt i Chester. Lol

By ralphs views and replies he has NO etc etc as ive posted..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
2,022
1,030
113
This post is about Loving God and Loving people.


Can you read!


Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 2:3-5



His commandments are about Loving God and loving our neighbor.


If we hate our neighbor the we no longer have eternal life dwelling in us.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



  • Do you honestly believe, that if you murder people, you are loving them?



The way we demonstrate our love for God, is to love our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



  • If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar;



You know where liars end up!




But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8




JPT
This post/thread is NOT about loving God and loving people..youve gone on a tangent and get upset when people arent following your mindset!