OSAS= House Built on Sand

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Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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I was told all my good works and being good were not going to land me in heaven since God requires perfection, the only one who was perfect here on earth was Jesus.

I believed because I wanted the relationship with God the person who was talking to me very clearly had, so I believed what was explained that Jesus was who I needed to have faith in personally to save me not my good works.

Not really so complicated, I did choose to believe, however it was not my belief that saved me it was who I was placing my faith in and His work.
I have seen many others choose to believe and I have seen others not choose to believe and suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
I have had friends not believe for years and then in a life crisis desire a relationship with God accept the gift of salvation.
26 So then, if those who are notcircumcised keep the law’s requirements,will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


galatians 6

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
I wish you all the best in your efforts as you journey towards complete obedience, righteousness and holiness.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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I was told all my good works and being good were not going to land me in heaven since God requires perfection, the only one who was perfect here on earth was Jesus.

I believed because I wanted the relationship with God the person who was talking to me very clearly had, so I believed what was explained that Jesus was who I needed to have faith in personally to save me not my good works.

Not really so complicated, I did choose to believe, however it was not my belief that saved me it was who I was placing my faith in and His work.
I have seen many others choose to believe and I have seen others not choose to believe and suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
I have had friends not believe for years and then in a life crisis desire a relationship with God accept the gift of salvation.
I think you are misunderstanding my question. Many, if not most people want a relationship with God. Several billions of muslims just to name one group. THEY believe the koran and following muhammed will save them.

So I ask again. Why did YOU believe in Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, crucified, died for YOUR sin, and rose to life? Is it not because HE CHOSE YOU?

There are tons of Scripture that answer that question. I, like you, never really saw them before but here are some to ponder.

John 6:
John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1: 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will[a]by no means cast out.

Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The list goes on and on... Yeah, we can probably explain away some of these, but why not just believe them and believe that God chooses us, not the other way around.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
S....,

Such a mistake.

We each are responsible for applying G-d's word in our individual life. No one else can be blamed.

A pastor, Church which teaches new age religion stuff...OSAS....baptism not necessary, etc.,....... which has evolved out of the 1960's social and moral revolution, should be avoided at all costs. They are great deceptions.
God has appointed shepherds to lead us sheep, if a sheep wonders off and privately interprets and apply s scripture to their lives they are in great danger. A sheep should never leave the shepherd and go it' sown way, because the adversary is roaming around like a hungry lion and sheep are His favorite meal.

The world is full of lost sheep who have rebelled against God by their foolish pride, they are easy prey for the Devil who loves to find them wondering around lost.

A sheep should never take it's life into it's own hands, it will most certainly become a victim of the enemy, who just loves to deceive them into trusting in their own understanding. They quickly forget that the Bible warns us not to rely on our own understanding.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
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HBG. Pa. USA
Those are good scriptures lightbearer. Increasing light....shining brighter and brighter as we "see" Jesus and we become like Him.
No limitations. HE is faithful!

What do you call the high calling Lightbearer? What was Paul desiring? :)
Are you smiling Stonesoffire because you answered your own question? I am because you did. As we behold HIM we become like HIM. More and more day by day. Our faith has made us WHOLE.
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins (separated from), should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1Pet 2:24
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
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HBG. Pa. USA
Lightbearer I know you study words too. I have one for you. You may already know this but just in case, look at the Word sprouts or sprout in the OT, and leaves in the NT. Leaves from the tree of life.
Not that I recall. Let me get back to you on this. I just got done looking at the Greek word for leaves in the New Testament and how it was used in the LXX. GOD lead me into something interesting which I am looking further into. Thanks for allowing yourself to point me to it. GOD is GOOD!
I will look into sprouts once I put all the Scriptural references on leaves into a Word document.
I'll give you a poem then if you'd like to read it. ;)
Please. I love poems. Also if I may, please share what you found on your word search on sprouts and leaves. God may be leading me in another direction. I would love to hear what HE has given you!
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,806
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God has appointed shepherds to lead us sheep, if a sheep wonders off and privately interprets and apply s scripture to their lives they are in great danger. A sheep should never leave the shepherd and go it' sown way, because the adversary is roaming around like a hungry lion and sheep are His favorite meal.

The world is full of lost sheep who have rebelled against God by their foolish pride, they are easy prey for the Devil who loves to find them wondering around lost.

A sheep should never take it's life into it's own hands, it will most certainly become a victim of the enemy, who just loves to deceive them into trusting in their own understanding. They quickly forget that the Bible warns us not to rely on our own understanding.

What does lost mean to you based on The words Jesus used in Luke 15?


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance


Does lost mean a sinner in need of repentance or does it mean “just”?


Do the lost need to be saved ?




JPT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,776
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3 “To the angel of the church in Sardiswrite:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
In the church at Sardis was a group of people who were obviously not genuine believers. Even though this church had a reputation of being alive, Jesus wasn’t fooled. “You are dead. Wake up!”
This church may have had a good reputation, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion. There were many tares among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30). To “wake up” in their case means to start paying attention to their need of salvation, to stop being careless about their heart’s condition before God.

Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers who attend church with believers? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. There are those who call Jesus Lord that prophesy, cast out demons and perform many "alleged" wonderful works who are not genuine believers. Christ NEVER knew them (Matthew 7:21-23). It’s not about attending church or or being a make believer that counts, it’s whether you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation that ultimately counts (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 26:18).

In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections that pertain to unbelievers or that warn the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception. How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment. Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” Yet the church at Sardis wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints. We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By being clothed in our own filthy rags of righteous (Isaiah 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10; Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9).

14 This is why it is said:

wake up, sleeper,
RISE FROM THE DEAD,
and Christ will shine on you.”
How about a little context. Ephesians 5:11 - Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

Reminds me of what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
In this case here, believers have an exhortation to wake up from spiritual slumber and put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. Believers need to make the best use of their time to do just what we have been called to do. Nothing is mentioned here in Romans 13:11 about them being dead or their deeds being unfinished in the sight of my God or to repent or a warning to wake up or Jesus will come like a thief, and they will not know at what time He will come to them.

Reminds me of Luke 22:45 - When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46 and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.” The disciples need to wake up and pray, but that does not mean they were lost.

In Romans 13:12, we read - "The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light." Now the term "night" here refers metaphorically to spiritual darkness and moral darkness. We live in a time of the night when the prince of the power of the air, the prince of darkness, controls this world. Children of light live in a time when darkness is all around us.

In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. *All genuine believers are "overcomers!" (y)

Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian at any given moment. They read into it like this: "If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” :rolleyes:

The one who “overcomes” is anyone who is born again (1 John 5:4). The overcomer will receive a white garment (a token of righteousness), he will never have his name removed from the book of life (which is a promise of eternal security). Praise God! :)
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
...I believe there is only one way to understand the scriptures which deal with OSAS.
I know you believe that. That's why I said you were only capable of understanding the passages you use to defend once saved always saved according to your own personal beliefs about them and aren't aware that there is another way to understand them which strips them of any once saved always saved meaning, yet does not make those passages untrue.


Most of the scriptures are very palin and they can't be understood any other way, unless someone deliberately twists them to make them say something else.
I know you don't want to hear this but actually the very opposite is true. You have to adopt this 'not really' attitude about scripture to make once saved always saved true. What I mean is various passages have to 'not really' mean what they say for once saved always saved to be true. Give me a few of your favorite once saved always saved passages and I'll show you.


I would venture to state that 90% of those Churches who identify as Christian Churches, are not preaching the Bible faithfully. They are using their fallen human reasoning and applying it to Holy Scripture, so they end up with a man made Gospel where man is at the center.
No, faith is at the center of Biblical not-once saved always saved. It's all about God's free gift of faith. Just because man then has to place his trust in what God shows mankind, through faith, to be true about his Son doesn't make it a man centered works gospel. Who told you trusting in Christ is the man centered works gospel condemned in scripture? Keeping the law to earn salvation is the works gospel condemned in scripture. How did trusting in Christ get mixed up in that in the church????


I get the sense that many people here are relying on their own understanding to to decipher the Holy Scriptures, and people all have different understandings and standards so we end up with thousands of denominations and and everyone seems to have their own view of what the Scriptures are saying.
I'm glad there are denominations. I need to know who believes what so I can stay away from them if they believe dangerous doctrines or demonstrate by what they believe, and in turn do, that they do not have the Spirit of revelation operating among them. I won't give examples in the interest of not shutting people down from listening to me out of offense.


I will stick to what my pastor teaches us, He has been appointed by God to lead us sheep, we are followers and the elders are the leaders.
Only stick to what your pastor teaches you that lines up with what you yourself can confirm in your own personal Bible reading. The crux of this problem with once saved always saved and other doctrines is most Christians do not read the Bible. They depend on the smattering of scripture that the pastor reads on Sunday morning to make his point. And that is the extent of their Bible knowledge.


What I have found here at CC is so many people running with their own narrow view of scripture and upholding their view as infallible. I see pride and arrogance exhibited, among supposed brethren, quite sad really.
I see it too. It comes from going with the first thing you hear that sounds acceptable to you and not having a time of personal Bible reading time. The true, learning, growing Christian will have a pattern of growth and change in both his doctrine and his behavior. The indoctrinated Christians who doesn't study thing out for himself and just goes with the first acceptable thing he hears is the one who is stuck in the narrow view of scripture and won't budge.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
When we get to the end of ourselves, in the final analysis, we understand that God ALONE saves us through Christ.
That's called 'faith'. God shows them the truth of the gospel. From there that person must then place their trust in the gospel they have been shown is true in order to be saved. Simply knowing by faith that the gospel is true never saved anybody and it never will.

God gives the ability, the faith, to know the gospel is true. We then respond with our trust. That's not us saving ourselves by our own works. Trusting Christ is not among the works that Paul says can not justify/save. There is no boast in that and God gets all the glory because we can't know and understand and trust in the gospel until he gives the gift of faith to even know it's true in the first place. Without that nothing happens. That's why it's to his glory and praise, not ours.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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That's called 'faith'. God shows them the truth of the gospel. From there that person must then place their trust in the gospel they have been shown is true in order to be saved. Simply knowing by faith that the gospel is true never saved anybody and it never will.

God gives the ability, the faith, to know the gospel is true. We then respond with our trust. That's not us saving ourselves by our own works. Trusting Christ is not among the works that Paul says can not justify/save. There is no boast in that and God gets all the glory because we can't know and understand and trust in the gospel until he gives the gift of faith to even know it's true in the first place. Without that nothing happens. That's why it's to his glory and praise, not ours.
I can't really find any fault with this post Ralph.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I think you are misunderstanding my question. Many, if not most people want a relationship with God. Several billions of muslims just to name one group. THEY believe the koran and following muhammed will save them.

So I ask again. Why did YOU believe in Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, crucified, died for YOUR sin, and rose to life? Is it not because HE CHOSE YOU?

There are tons of Scripture that answer that question. I, like you, never really saw them before but here are some to ponder.

John 6:
John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1: 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will[a]by no means cast out.

Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The list goes on and on... Yeah, we can probably explain away some of these, but why not just believe them and believe that God chooses us, not the other way around.
I have no desire to explain them away. I do believe the verses can be understood outside of a Calvinistic lens.

That is up to you to search out if you are interested, I have already done so since I walked away from McArthur and his band of brothers and their post modern approach to Calvinism many years ago.

Thinking "one has been chosen" to me is something to boast about.

Romans 10:13, “For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL MEN” (Titus 2:11).
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,011
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I think you are misunderstanding my question. Many, if not most people want a relationship with God. Several billions of muslims just to name one group. THEY believe the koran and following muhammed will save them.

So I ask again. Why did YOU believe in Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, crucified, died for YOUR sin, and rose to life? Is it not because HE CHOSE YOU?

There are tons of Scripture that answer that question. I, like you, never really saw them before but here are some to ponder.

John 6:
John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1: 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will[a]by no means cast out.

Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The list goes on and on... Yeah, we can probably explain away some of these, but why not just believe them and believe that God chooses us, not the other way around.
This is addressed in Romans 1. They want God but only the God of their own imagination not the God of the bible.

Gods love for His creation is pure and unadulterated. God loves every soul He has ever created and does not prefer one above another. God hates sin with equal purity. Gods wrath abides on sin not the sinner.

Election and predestination are the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. Man chooses to sin and man must choose to receive Christ as atonement for sin. The result of the fall included the ability for man to know right from wrong. Every man has the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. Man must take personal responsibility for his sin against God. God does not prefer some over others but considers all in the state of unbelief the He might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Not that I recall. Let me get back to you on this. I just got done looking at the Greek word for leaves in the New Testament and how it was used in the LXX. GOD lead me into something interesting which I am looking further into. Thanks for allowing yourself to point me to it. GOD is GOOD!
I will look into sprouts once I put all the Scriptural references on leaves into a Word document.
Please. I love poems. Also if I may, please share what you found on your word search on sprouts and leaves. God may be leading me in another direction. I would love to hear what HE has given you!
A Fall Shoot is one that is born out of time
Leaves have fallen to earth,
trees are barren and dry..

Foretold promise now springs forth in life

Cool winds start their blowing
Dry leaves through the air
Senses wake to a fresh scent
Perfumed sweet and rare

But why would one pick this time
My heart questions...
Why not in Spring when all others are blooming?
Why choose a time when the plantings are dying?
A time that can only be shortened by
cold?


This is the season of newness in showing
My Sprout has been hidden from all others view
I've given the promise of it's re appearing
My Child look to earth, for the right time's drawing near.


I had no idea what Holy Spirit had given me here. But, I love mysteries. :) There is more though I'm sure yet to see. And then experience.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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No limitations. HE is faithful!


Are you smiling Stonesoffire because you answered your own question? I am because you did. As we behold HIM we become like HIM. More and more day by day. Our faith has made us WHOLE.
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins (separated from), should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1Pet 2:24
A sprout is the exact replica from the source that produced it. Pretty much which you just said in your post. From the inside out. :)

Photosynthesis.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Gods wrath abides on sin not the sinner.

This is interesting, notuptome. In the day of His wrath?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.

Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.
Romans 9:31 - but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Titus 3:5 is not simply talking about the self righteous works of the Jews through the law. Works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) end up twisting passages of scripture that pertain to works and to try and make them say that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works.

"Works of righteousness" are works done in a righteous manner, out of faith, and with a view to the glory of God or otherwise they are not righteous actions, or "works of righteousness." Works of righteousness are done as a result of being regenerated and renewed by the Holy Spirit, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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This is addressed in Romans 1. They want God but only the God of their own imagination not the God of the bible.

Gods love for His creation is pure and unadulterated. God loves every soul He has ever created and does not prefer one above another. God hates sin with equal purity. Gods wrath abides on sin not the sinner.

Election and predestination are the result of salvation not the cause of salvation. Man chooses to sin and man must choose to receive Christ as atonement for sin. The result of the fall included the ability for man to know right from wrong. Every man has the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. Man must take personal responsibility for his sin against God. God does not prefer some over others but considers all in the state of unbelief the He might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I fully understand your position Roger. I simply don't agree with it for the reasons I stated. It doesn't mean I don't consider you a brother in the Lord.

I am not willing to dismiss the volumes of Scripture that says God chose us, not the other way around. I know I never would have chose Him. How could I have? I was Spiritually dead. And Scripture unequivocally says that the natural man, who doesn't have the Holy Spirit, that is spiritually dead, can even understand the Word. And I've heard many times the explanation given for this passage that IMO merely explains away what is clearly written. I just don't believe it. I KNOW He chose me.

I believe this not only because of the great volume of Scripture supporting it, but experientially as well.