OSAS= House Built on Sand

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
366
29
28
Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
The whole of Judeo-Christian teaching refutes this statement!
Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Not true! The concept of salvation by faith is totally absent in the first three gospels where salvation is seen to be the consequence of good works. In the fourth gospel, salvation by faith is inseparably linked to continuous obedience to Christ, and remaining in Him until death. In the writings of Paul, the Doctrine of Justification is taught as it is in the Epistle of James with the distinction that “works of the Law” have no part in our salvation.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
3,212
3,533
113
67
...the phrase "he who endures to the end shall be saved" is only used in the Bible when it's referring to the time of great tribulation (just prior to Christ's return). As such, I believe it will be one of the principle signs of a true believer in that day and age (far more than it is today in most cases). True believers ARE the ones who endure to the end, because God, by the power of His sanctifying grace, has promised to see that we do .. cf John 6:37-40; Philippians 1:6; 2:13, Hebrews 7:25..
Enduring until we die is for every one of God's people- tribulation time or not. We need to be faithful until death. Just because the bible says something to one person does not mean it's not for everyone.
Hi OneFaith, I apologize if I my meaning was unclear. Here's what I said again, hopefully arranged in a way that will make what I said (and believe) easier to understand:

............the phrase "he who endures to the end shall be saved" is only used in the Bible when it's referring to the time of great
.........tribulation (just prior to Christ's return).


.........As such, I believe it will be one of the principle signs of a true believer in that day and age ...................................... (far more
.........than it is today in most cases).


In fact, this is may be the very reason that the Lord chose to mention this important (& timeless) fact in relation to the end times tribulation alone. (this was also part of the point I was, well, at least hoping to make in my former post ;))

One of the signs that tells us who the 'true' saints of God are ... has always been/will always be ... "perseverance". As St. John tells us plainly, those who "profess" faith in Christ and then leave the church/deny Christ, show us by their going that they were ~never~ saved from the get-go.

.........1 John 2
.........19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they
.........went out that it might be made manifest that none of them were of us.


This has always been true. The point I was trying to make is that this "sign" will become far more obvious (and therefore useful) during the tribulation than it is today because of the pressure that the tribulation will bring to bear on those in the church at that time. So, many more sons of the devil ("tares" .. Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43), will be exposed during the great tribulation (than are being exposed now) because they do not have the Holy Spirit and the sanctifying grace needed to preserve them/see them through the weight of those terrible times as part of the church like true Christians do.

Here's one of the three passages that includes the phrase we are discussing in context. Hopefully seeing it in context will help as well.

.........Matthew 24
.........4 Jesus answered and said to them, see to it that no one misleads you.
.........5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.
.........6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place,
.........but that is not yet the end.
.........7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines
.........and earthquakes.
.........8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
.........9 Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
.........10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
.........11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
.........12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
.........13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
......... 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then
.........the end will come.


You continue:
If you got into a rescue boat, you were saved, but you are not completely saved until you're back on dry ground. If you jump out of the boat in shark infested waters before reaching shore, you are no longer saved. To say that no one would do that is untrue. There are people who leave the safety of being in Christ, and it is not impossible to come out of Christ once in Christ.
OneFaith, if someone got into your "rescue boat" (or anyone else's), you'd have a very good point. However, in this case alone, you really need to consider who the Owner of the rescue boat is!! Those who are saved by getting into 'His' rescue boat will NEVER be lost, both in the here and now, and forevermore ...... because our Abba, Father will not allow any of His own to be lost :) .. e.g. John 3:16, 18, 5:24, 6:37-40, 44, 65, 10:27-28, Romans 10:9-10; Philippians 1:6, 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 5:13...........

~Deut

.........John 6:37-40 (excerpt)
.........All the the Father gives Me will come to Me, and .. of all that He has given Me, I LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up on the last day.

.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
...and yet another fib by ralph and I've ignored him for months due to this.
I have noticed that even avowed Calvinists (you) don't know their own doctrine very well. Actually, what we are seeing today are offshoots of Calvinism, not the original tenants. Calvinism is dying a slow death.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Who cares what Calvin says?

I care what Scripture says!
Every 'once saved always saved' adherent should care what Calvin said because he is the one who brought 'once saved always saved' into the church through his spirit-less, over thought, meaningless theology we call 'Calvinism'.



1 John 5:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life, [a]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Everyone who believes, and can see their faith in how they act KNOWS they have eternal life. Believing is how we access the security of salvation. How we act (a.k.a. 'obedience') is how we know we have the security of salvation.

Believing = the security of salvation

Obedience = the assurance that you have salvation


And, yes, that's what I've been saying all along: You must continue to believe to be saved when Jesus comes back. The scriptures encourage us to continue to believe. God gives the faith to believe, we do the believing.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,037
13,041
113
58
The whole of Judeo-Christian teaching refutes this statement!

Not true! The concept of salvation by faith is totally absent in the first three gospels where salvation is seen to be the consequence of good works. In the fourth gospel, salvation by faith is inseparably linked to continuous obedience to Christ, and remaining in Him until death. In the writings of Paul, the Doctrine of Justification is taught as it is in the Epistle of James with the distinction that “works of the Law” have no part in our salvation.
You are in error and obviously teach salvation by works and there is a reason for that (1 Corinthians 2:14). Good works are the consequence of salvation and not the other way around (Ephesians 2:8-10).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,037
13,041
113
58
I have replied to this post in the thread it references, and I have shown from both the Greek text and the NASB 1995 update that the post grossly distorts the words in the Bible.
All you have shown is your misunderstanding of scripture and unbelief. :(
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Thanks Deuteronomy,

I appreciate that you have taken the time to share your experience and knowledge with me.
I'm trying to understand the exact context of "He who endures to the end shall be saved", you say it refers to believers in the end time just before the return of Christ and I agree, but does it also apply to all o those who are walking after Christ now.

I always understood that verse to mean that the true believers would follow Christ until the end and not fall away.

Also John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and of all that He gives me I will lose none", sounds very much like He's speaking about the elect of God. I'm not sure what your position is on predestination and election, but the Bible seems to indicate that these are biblical doctrines.
I would think it applies to all of those who are walking after Christ now.

I would offer he who endures to the end as one saved has his confidence in Christ and not what he performs of his own endeavor as a work of the flesh . (Phil1:6)

We should remember as a imputed righteousness it is Christ who works in us to both will and perform that which he appoints to us.(Phip.2:12) As new born again creatures, we work out the new faith he has given us and not work for it to gain it.

In Galatian 3:1-3 the Holy Spirit emphasizes again the Philippians 1:6 principle. God who creates us as new creatures does not begin his work without finishing it to the end so that we then can endure. If we are saved by the "hearing of the faith of God". Therefore having begun in the Spirit as it is written, the flesh will not finish it or perfect His work. The Galatian believers were being foolish as if there was no God in their hearts. Twice he asks them are you being foolish to emphasize, twice he offers the two choices .(1) Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or (2) by the hearing of faith?

Lastly again in respect to the two choices spoken of in Galatians 3. I am reminded of Kings 18 as to who we will follow after ? Will we be foolish and follow after the father of lies as Baal walking after the flesh ? Or Jehovah , walking after the Holy Spirit. (1 KIngs18:21?


Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:phil1:6

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.Phil. 2:12

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians:3:1-5


1 Kings 18:21And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
I would think it applies to all of those who are walking after Christ now.

I would offer he who endures to the end as one saved has his confidence in Christ and not what he performs of his own endeavor as a work of the flesh . (Phil1:6)

We should remember as a imputed righteousness it is Christ who works in us to both will and perform that which he appoints to us.(Phip.2:12) As new born again creatures, we work out the new faith he has given us and not work for it to gain it.

In Galatian 3:1-3 the Holy Spirit emphasizes again the Philippians 1:6 principle. God who creates us as new creatures does not begin his work without finishing it to the end so that we then can endure. If we are saved by the "hearing of the faith of God". Therefore having begun in the Spirit as it is written, the flesh will not finish it or perfect His work. The Galatian believers were being foolish as if there was no God in their hearts. Twice he asks them are you being foolish to emphasize, twice he offers the two choices .(1) Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or (2) by the hearing of faith?

Lastly again in respect to the two choices spoken of in Galatians 3. I am reminded of Kings 18 as to who we will follow after ? Will we be foolish and follow after the father of lies as Baal walking after the flesh ? Or Jehovah , walking after the Holy Spirit. (1 KIngs18:21?


Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:phil1:6

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.Phil. 2:12

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians:3:1-5

1 Kings 18:21And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Thanks for this, it is encouraging to me especially at this time as I'm going through the most difficult trial of my life. My faith has been put to the test, I feel weak and utterly helpless in this trial so I have to rely on the Lord 100% to see me through it.

So reading those verses above just reminded me that I'm not relying on my own wisdom and strength, but Christ is leading me and I'm just following Him by faith. My own reasoning is screaming at me to do it my way, but I must deny myself and follow Christ and trust Him to the end.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
It is quite obvious you have huge issues with the eternal assurance of the believer...
I have zero issues with the eternal security of the believer. Only believers, not former believers, have the security of God's eternal salvation.


...this is something you need to bring to God before prayer.
Why would I need to bring the fact that it is only believers, not former believers, who have eternal life before God in prayer?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Oh, I used to live in terror of losing my salvation for many years.
Why, because you thought you could lose it for sinning, or because you thought you could lose it for not believing anymore? I'm guessing because of the former.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as you teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)
It's not a contradiction because the author is not saying 'once for all' means you can never lose sanctification through the body of Christ, but rather he is saying there is no need to seek re-sanctification under the New Covenant of Christ's blood as had to be done under the old covenant. Context, mailman, context!
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
*Also, in Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.
Yes, ALL of these will occur for the believer, not for the ex-believer who has turned back in unbelief from the salvation he has received through Christ's sacrifice, like the Galatians did. You have to continue to believe all the way to the very end to inherit the promises. You literally can not keep the promised Holy Spirit by which you are called, justified, sanctified, and glorified if you turn away from the sacrifice of Christ in unbelief. That is what Paul told the Galatians.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
I have zero issues with the eternal security of the believer. Only believers, not former believers, have the security of God's eternal salvation.
I'm starting to think that the ones who take issue with you don't really understand eternal security. It seems that a fear of failing is behind the belief that believers don't have to do anything, which is completely contrary to scripture.

I do believe that believers can become ex-believers; I've seen it happen several times, and the bible witnesses as much. Yet I also feel very secure in that knowledge. It drives me towards GOD, not away from him. There is perfect security in GOD through our faith in his faithfulness. There is zero security outside of faith.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
Yes, ALL of these will occur for the believer, not for the ex-believer who has turned back in unbelief from the salvation he has received through Christ's sacrifice, like the Galatians did. You have to continue to believe all the way to the very end to inherit the promises. You literally can not keep the promised Holy Spirit by which you are called, justified, sanctified, and glorified if you turn away from the sacrifice of Christ in unbelief. That is what Paul told the Galatians.
I think one of the problematic issues is that some people get offended when they hear that the holy spirit doesn't dwell in us apart from faith. That makes it seem like a work that if they don't have perfect faith the holy spirit will leave them. That's not the way eternal security works. GOD is faithful though our unfaithfulness. What he's not faithful to is a disavowal of the faith, i.e., himself.

Perhaps it would help clarify the issue to distinguish faith from the faith. If a believer is disbelieving in some matter, GOD remains faithful; he cannot deny himself (his own body). That's eternal security. However, if a believer denies the faith and becomes an ex-believer, GOD will deny that person because he/she has broken covenant and is no longer a part of his body.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I am not sure why when we say we are eternally saved this is interpreted as we no longer serving God, I would argue that it is the very assurance of salvation that spurs the believer(s) on to do the works that God would have us do.

When we are assured of our salvation our works come from Him and return to Him ...they come from a place of Liberty not obligation.

One, especially one who has been "newly baptized", is serving God! As a "babe IN Christ!" Is this to say, that one who has been "saved eternally" (as you say) for 30 years, and yet a "babe IN Christ" is STILL "serving God?"

You see, at the time of the "conversion" of one's soul, where the "Angels in Heaven" (even) "Rejoice?" And, (even) the "joy" in one's "spirit" (breath of life) is rejoicing in its receiving the "Gift, of the Holy Spirit" (Holy BREATH of life), along WITH "the soul" of the "converted one!" It is when "the church", or more importantly, "the Shepherds, Pastors, Priests, Bishops, Elders, Deacons, etc.", "Conflate", this first half, of "The Great Commission", of "going into ALL "the world"(this is not geographically specific, nor even "personally" specific, as including one's own person. Even the converted person), "Preaching and Teaching" the Good News, as being "all that is required, or expected", to do, in "serving God", thus "achieving spiritual perfection, or maturity?", ARE teaching, and preaching "an Illusion!"

For what good, or benefit, does the "receiving of The gift", do one, or (ESPECIALLY), "The Church" (or, the "WE", as you are inferring to), for that matter, if it is never opened? This "Gift", is the "Word of God!" Which, has always been, oh SO quickly "made void", by traditions of man! (1Corinthians 13:8-10 -
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect ("complete", as in spiritually complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
You "see" what Traditions of man do/does? It/they even takes away, as to even "make void" (that part) of "Charity" (love), also known, as "Tough Love!" Or? "Love that CORRECTS!" This "too", is in "The Gift!" But, not only does one have to open it! One HAS to "APPLY" it! Even to (ESPECIALLY) ONE'S "OWN SELF!")

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. You see how Paul contrasts "open" from "unopened?" "For now we see through a glass, darkly" (unopened GIFT) " BUT "THEN!" "face to face!" (OPENED GIFT) and again? "now I know in part" (UNopened Gift) "But THEN!" "shall I know even as also I am known!" (OPENED GIFT) And, I'll argue for Paul, on his behalf, that this "as also I am known", (includes) "FOREKNOWN!"
Now Paul, NEVER "saw" the "flesh man" Jesus, as the Disciples did!
And, it took him 3 YEARS, under "tutelage", in His "UNwrapping and OPENING" "THE GIFT!"

And Jesus told His Disciples, concerning "their seeing, and believing." And, added, "How much MORE BLEESED, are those who HAVEN'T seen!" "YET, BELIEVE!"

In the movie "The Shootist", As J.B. Books was answering Gillum's inquiry into what made him so successful when knowing that in just a split second, he could be dead? Books looked at Gillum, and stated rather matter of factly? "You have to be willin'!" "You see Gillum, most men, when it comes "time?" "They aren't WILLIN' to die!" "And, is in "that SPLIT SECOND", they become "vulnerable!"
So it is with "opening The Gift!" One can "partially open" the gift, and be "serving God." Yet, as one reads one grows and matures, and seeing, their is "more" to be opened? But, not "willin'" IN opening? One cannot say that one is "still serving God!"

That, come "teaching time?" Only "The NAME" remains! And, in many cases, "MUCH Power", even in the name, has been made void! "CESSATION of Spiritual Gifts!" "If it's NOT "in the Bible?"....It's NOT "of God!"
John 20:30
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

What "cause or need" for these "we", to be, "spurred on", in "serving God Further", when those who do "PRESS On" (into actually unwrapping more of "The Gift") become "dissed" into silence! By those, who lay claim by each other's "self assurance", that "there is No NEED to "press!" As they are, "in their own eyes", (already) "Serving God" (enough)!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
I'm starting to think that the ones who take issue with you don't really understand eternal security. It seems that a fear of failing is behind the belief that believers don't have to do anything, which is completely contrary to scripture.

I do believe that believers can become ex-believers; I've seen it happen numerous times, and the bible witnesses as much. Yet I also feel very secure in that knowledge. It drives me towards GOD, not away from him. There is perfect security in GOD through our faith in his faithfulness. There is zero security outside of faith.
What you and ralph don't understand is that you are both directly coming against the Faith.

You are preaching doubt and gibberish. I'm not sure if many really believe what you and a few others are saying about doubt but all they would have to do is read the bible and pray to dispel all the silliness that you talk about.

John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Do you see?

Is eternal life a gift? yes.
Is faith a gift? yes.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
724
122
43
Being Submissive/ Faithful/Obedient To Him= Accurate

Just Believe/Accept Him as Saviour= Bad Translation in English

(Tranlations are mine from the Greek.
*All 41 occurrences of the Greek phrase
πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
are listed below in context)​

Part I
Mat 18:6 ὅς δ᾿ ἂν σκανδαλίσῃ ἕνα τῶν μικρῶν τούτων τῶν πιστευόντων εἰς ἐμέ, συμφέρει αὐτῷ ἵνα κρεμασθῇ μύλος ὀνικὸς εἰς τὸν τράχηλον αὐτοῦ καὶ καταποντισθῇ ἐν τῷ πελάγει τῆς θαλάσσης.
Mat 18:6 “Whoever should cause one of these little ones who are continually submissive and faithful to me to sin, it is better for him that a millstone of a donkey be tied around his neck and he be submerged in the depth of the open sea.” (repeated in Mk 9:42)

Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Joh 2:11 Ταύτην ἐποίησε ἀρχὴν τῶν σημείων ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἐν Κανὰ τῆς Γαλιλαίας καὶ ἐφανέρωσε τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ.
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miraculous signs Yahshua performed in Cana of Galilee and he manifested his splendor. And his disciples were submissive to him.

Joh 2:23 ῾Ως δὲ ἦν τοῖς ῾Ιεροσολύμοις ἐν τῷ πάσχα ἐν τῇ ἑορτῇ, πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, θεωροῦντες αὐτοῦ τὰ σημεῖα ἃ ἐποίει.
Joh 2:23 While he was in Jerusalem during the festival of the Passover, many people were submissive to his authority as they were seeing the miracles that he did.

Joh 3:14 καὶ καθὼς Μωϋσῆς ὕψωσε τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ, οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,
Joh 3:15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Jn 3:14-16 “And in the same way that Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, it is necessary for the Son of Humanity likewise to be lifted up, in order that everyone who is continually faithful and submissive to him should not be destroyed, but instead, possess age-abiding Life. Because God in this manner was lovingly-devoted to the cosmos: to the point that he gave his one-of-a-kind son, in order that every person who is constantly submissive and obedient to him might not be destroyed, but instead possess age-abiding Life.”

Joh 3:18 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν οὐ κρίνεται, ὁ δὲ μὴ πιστεύων ἤδη κέκριται, ὅτι μὴ πεπίστευκεν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Joh 3:18 “The one who is obedient to him is not judged; but the one who is not faithful is already judged, because he has not been submissive to the authority of the unique-in-kind son of God.

Joh 3:36 ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐκ ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ᾿ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ᾿ αὐτόν.
Joh 3:36 The person who is submissively being obedient to the son possesses age-abiding Life; but the person who is being disobedient to the son will not see Life. Instead, the wrath of God is remaining on top of him.

Joh 4:39 ᾿Εκ δὲ τῆς πόλεως ἐκείνης πολλοὶ ἐπίστευσαν εἰς αὐτὸν τῶν Σαμαριτῶν διὰ τὸν λόγον τῆς γυναικὸς, μαρτυρούσης ὅτι εἶπέ μοι πάντα ὅσα ἐποίησα.
Joh 4:39 Many people of the Samaritans from that city became faithful to him on account of the statement of the woman who testified, “He told me everything that I have done!”

Joh 6:29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ ἔργον τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἵνα πιστεύσητε εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος.
Joh 6:29 Yahshua answered and told them, “This is the 'work of God': that you should be submissive and faithful to the person that he sent!

Joh 6:35 εἶπε δὲ αὐτοῖς ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς· ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ, καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ διψήσει πώποτε.
Joh 6:35 Yahshua told them, “I am Life's Bread. The person constantly approaching me will never be hungry, and the person being consistantly submissive and faithful to me will not ever be thirsty.”

Joh 6:40 τοῦτο δὲ ἐστι τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.
Joh 6:40 “This is the intention of the one who sent me: in order that everyone who is constantly looking to the son, and being always submissive and faithful to him, may have age-abiding Life. And I will resurrect him in the Last Day.”

(Part II next)
The Bible is pretty clear that God draws certain people to Himself and they become believers, then the Holy Spirit leads the believer to salvation.
God never fails to save a person whom He chose to save, so they can never lose their salvation.

The only people who "lose their salvation" are those who made a false profession of faith but they were never true believers in the first place.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Joh 1:12 ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα Θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ,
Joh 1:12 As many people that received him, he gave to them the privilege to become children of God—to the ones that are continually submissive and obedient to his authority.

Amen!


OSAS = Doctrine of demons.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
John 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Amen!

Those who hear [with the attitude of doing what is heard] and follow [because they obey what is heard] Him, will remain with HIm and not become lost.



Jesus taught us that a sheep who becomes lost, is a sinner in need of repentance, no longer being reconciled to Him and no longer being justified.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


  • What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them,
  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
  • likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents
  • than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.





JLB
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
So here we have another who does not have faith that Jesus who saves us keeps us saved.
He believes He must help by his own works.
You keep trusting in yourself and you will end up in Hell.

We keep trusting in Him!


OSAS teaches that we no longer have to believe, trust or be committed to Him, yet somehow remain saved.


You got it backwards.




JPT