OSAS supporters, explain these, if you will please.

[SolidGround]

I found the conversation. This was our 1st ever interaction.
Let the others here judge whether it was done in good conduct, and whether your grudge is justified.

The basic requirements are as poster 2Thewaters gave and they are repent your sins, believe the word of God and obey His laws, statues & commandments. In other words you are now a new creature in Christ and you cannot turn back or go back to your old ways. Yes, we do have relapses and we need to beg for forgiveness and repent the sins. I won't give you all the bible verses because you need to learn them in order to grow wiser with wisdom in the Scriptures. I will give you bible verses connected to being saved. Stay tuned.

This word "requirements" is absolutely horrid when speaking of salvation.
Please, please, please reconsider what you are implying.

The Word that we share with each other, and the goal that we have as the Church, is one of pursuing holiness in all things, and to praise and glorify God in all we do.
The word "requirement" makes it sound like you would not do those things unless you had to to not go to hell.
That makes you sound like a very lost person. Please reconsider who you are trusting?
Yourself, or Christ.

I am an overcomer of sin, and a pursuer of holiness,
not because it is required for salvation
(Christ paid what was required. The Blood of the Spotless Lamb was the only requirement)
I do these things because I LOVE my Lord, because He first loved me.
I want to please Him, and share His love with others.

If I was doing these things to maintain my salvation, then the works would be for the wrong motive,
and the result would be me being unsaved.

Sorry, you are the one lost.

I am lost because I have faith in Christ as my savior?
I am lost because I follow what He says?
I am lost because I know He is sufficient for my every need?
I am lost because I resist temptation?
I am lost because I pursue holiness?
I am lost because I serve my brothers and sisters in Christ?

For which of these am I condemned?


If you are serving others for selfish reasons (like to escape hell) then there is no love in them, and they are worthless works.

Once you put your faith in Christ, instead of requirements, then you will be able to serve others with a pure heart.

You are lost because you have personal issues. When a poster is willing to tear down a post over one word that she doesn't like .... she has issues & lost. There are some incredible Christians out there but there are also many with "mental disorders."

Forgive me then. It seems I've offended you to quite an end.
My intention was not to offend you, which is why i said please so many times.

In my defense, this is a discussion forum. Wording is important. Our words are all we have here (and our profile pics I guess).

I wish you would reread my post with the mindset that I was not trying to offend, but trying to edify, and help you choose better wording to express the necessity of being faithful after salvation,
so that those who are new in Christ will not be led astray through misunderstanding.


I forgive you for your comments in your last two responses to me.

btw, another possible misunderstanding: I'm a male

Your tactics would be better suited for a classroom in Israel. I will not tolerate your arrogance.

I guess you don't accept my apology, and aren't retracting your insults.

I have no idea what about an Israeli classroom would suit me better than this forum and this thread, lol.
You're gonna have to explain that one.
but wait,
I won't be able to read your response, because....

Ignore button activated.

I suppose I never followed through with my "ignore button" comment.
I do wish I hadn't said that "sounds like a lost person" remark.
This whole thing would not have happened if I had selected a better way to phrase things.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Yes, the church is made up of individuals but no individual outside the church is being addressed. So even though an individual maybe in that sealed group today, he can be come unfaithful and fall from that sealed group.

When you go to church and the pastor is teaching he is teaching to a GROUP of people but the message is for each individual, correct? Each individual is being addressed - anytime someone is speaking to a group - each individual is being addressed. If my boss stands up and addresses a group in the company - He is speaking to EACH employee! And each employee stands on his own merit - same thing as addressing the church. No, an individual in the GROUP cannot fall from being sealed just as an individual cannot become 'unborn'. Either you are born of the Spirit and sealed or you aren't - that simple.

So it is the GROUP that is sealed and not the individual outside the group. Nor is there a verse that says it is impossible for one to fall away from this sealed group. Nor is there any verse that says one UNCONDITIONALLY is added to this sealed group.

We are God's purchased possession, sealed UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

Therefore one CONDITIONALLY is added to the sealed group and if one quits meeting the condition he is removed from this sealed group, Eph 1:13 cf Rev 2:1-7.

The condition - faith. Once you are born again you are born of God's Spirit, you are sealed with holy Spirit, you are a purchased possession, purchased by the blood of Christ, UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

 

[newbirth]

Praise God for his glorious mercy and his wondrous ways. That he show us the truth in the midst of bold declarations that seek to weave confusion.

That text, from 2nd Peter chapter 2, and verse 20 does not say what you hope to convey of it. However, Verses 1 through 2 that precede it, certainly do warn of the spirit behind the conveyance. So that context within God's word be achieved in matters related to those who would hope to convince us that Christ and his salvation is not eternal.


2 Peter 2:1-22

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. (Full Text 1Peter 1:1-22)

It is not what I hope to convey but rather what it says....Many shall follow the false teachers...And many shall follow their pernicious ways , and make merchandise of you , this is the portion of the false teachers... whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not

for those who do not follow false teachings... [SUP]9 [/SUP]the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,


those who follow false teachings..and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


here it says they promise their followers liberty....those followers already overcame corruption and are brought back in bondage of corruption...
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

So these verses are for those who choose to follow false teachings after they started in the truth...
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

His salvation is eternal it is in Him ... one cannot turn away from Christ and still expect to be in Him...

 

[BlackPlatypus]

[h=3]1 John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.[/h]

 

[SeaBass]

No it is not, if you mean by Christian a person who is saved, instead of a professor of religion. Heb 6:9 absolutely proves it. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,



Taste can be used where nothing is swallowed. We are not left to come to our own conclusions, Heb 6:9 says:

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,

[quote]"made partakers of the Holy Ghost" cf Rom 8:9. These Christian Hebrews are said to be "partakers of the heavenly calling" Heb 3:1. Both phrases representing a saved position.

In Hebrews 6:9 the Lord tells us,

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,

I believe the Lord; I do not believe you, Seabass.



They cannot renewed again to repentance, that is to a change of mind. The change of mind that saves is from non-belief to belief, but there are other changes of mind beside that one. It may be that they had a factual belief, which is not saving faith. They will not be renewed to thinking that X is true again. Note that the text does not say, save, saved, or salvation. You are reading things in that are not there. Whatever gnat you want to strain in the passage, the Lord tells us:

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,

I believe the Lord; I do not believe you, Seabass.



The text doesn't say anything about hoping. What is tells us is:

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,

Better things. The things of salvation are better than the things of professors who have a connection to Christianity (like Judas) without ever being saved.

You must interpret the passage not privately, but in harmony with the promises of God. You must interpret Heb 6:4-8 in the light of 6:9. We are not left to guess at the meaning.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Men are either in darkness or in the light, no middle ground, and those in Heb 6:4 were in the light > saved.

Heb 2:9 Jesus is said to have "tasted" death. Does 'taste' mean He did not really die? Taste death means His own personal experience in dying. Tasting the heavenly gift is one's own persona experience inl reception of the gift of salvation.

I pointed out "The Hebrew writer in verse 6 goes on to say about these Christians "If they shall fall away, to renew them again.." How can they fall away or be RENEWED AGAIN if they were always fallen and never made new? Only one who is ALREADY a Christian, ALREADY in a saved position can fall away from that saved position need to be renewed gain to his former saved state."

You did not give a logical explanation how one who was ALWAYS fallen can fall away? How can one be renewed AGAIN if they were NEVER renewed before?

Heb 6:7-9 God sends forth rain to produce food for man. If it brings forth good food it is blessed but if it brings forth briars they are burned. The Hebrew writer in v9 expresses his hope that those Hebrew Christians would not end up being the briars that are burned and that God would remember their work and labour even though they had not fully matured as Christians, Heb 5:12-14. Heb 9:11 the Hebrew writer hopes those Hebrew Christians have full diligence unto the end so as not to be burned as briars but to have full assurance of hope.

Jn 10:27 explains 'who' God holds in His hand and 'why' God will not allow them be snatch away and verse 27 says nothing about eternal security. Verse 27 speaks about faithfulness in hearing and following Christ.

 

[BlackPlatypus]

[/SIZE][/B]
Platypus:

Let's see the proof that
1) The Lord Jesus referred to Paul in the gospels.
2) Paul spoke of Christ's 2nd coming as in the wilderness?
3) Christ's return being universally visible, like lightning in the sky has anything to do with Paul?
4) Paul is connected with a carcass & vultures?

Where does Christ say "Paul" or "Saul"?

Rubbish

So for you, Jesus would have had to name Saul in order for Jesus to actually have warned of false teachers. And in the case of Paul, who copied exactly what Jesus forewarned, that just isn't true. Even though it is in scripture.

OK, let's see. Do you trust Jesus?

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ,’ or ‘there,’ believe it not. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there shall arise false christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Paul's account Acts 9:1-9)

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you before.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore, if they shall say unto you, ‘Behold, He is in the desert!’ go not forth; or ‘Behold, He is in the secret chambers!’ believe it not.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.



2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.


With regard to the Apostles of Christ, Jesus instructed them specifically in how to spread the good news: Matthew 10:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:



Contrary to Paul's proclamation he was sent to apostle to the Gentiles, that is not what Jesus said. How would Jesus deliver commandments after he departed the earth and that contradicted what he decreed while here in the flesh? Paul refers to himself 22 times in his epistles as an apostle, while he is referred by others in a off hand way as an apostle only twice.
Not to forget the church at Ephesus, the one church charged with holding trials to judge those who processed themselves to be apostles, found Paul was not an apostle!
And Jesus in Revelation 2:2 reiterated that fact.

Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

There are many more proofs but that's enough for now. You either believe Jesus or you don't.

 

[notuptome]

I am saved because I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior

I repented of my past sins and turned to Christ, learning to walk the way the Holy Spirit guides me each day.
Walking in love and forgiveness, asking for forgiveness when I back slide, asking and forgiving others for their trespasses.
Knowing that through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that no matter what trials and tribulations I face I will not waver and stop believing and trusting in Him.


Also knowing not to turn a blind eye to others that are in need, and to help them to turn from their sins and to follow Jesus.
Giving them the same warnings that Jesus gave the apostles to give to us about willful sin.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out the sins of others if you do it in a loving and caring manner, and help them to turn from that sin. Even Paul pointed out to Peter and corrected him for doing wrong.

Great now you are recovering some ground. I suggest that you go back and ask yourself it is you or Christ that has done what you say has been done.

I am all for exhorting believers to live for Christ but you exceed the bounds of scripture when you judge another to be able or to have already lost their salvation. I do not advocate that one should live like the devil after they trust Christ as Savior. In fact God's grace changes so profoundly the person that they cannot go back to living like the devil. Not perfect and sinless but never comfortable living in sin.

It is much better to know that you are simply lacking in your discipleship that lacking a saving knowledge of Christ. Once a person is saved their sanctification process begins. They grow in Christ and mature by conforming to His image. Day by day trusting less in self and entirely in Christ. Branches do not produce fruit but they bear the fruit produced by the vine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Not saved by the death, saved by the life, so if one does not come to life in the resurrected Christ, then one is still dead as how they were first born of the womb as alive to flesh, born dead to God. there is more to the death there Is life in the resurrected Christ by Faith and Father gives this to those that believe

Christ died for all men Heb 2:9 so if salvation were unconditional as Eternal Securists claim, then ALL men should be saved. But all men are not saved for all will not CONDITIONALLY obey Heb 5:9

 

[notuptome]

Where does the scripture say God gave you power to become a butterfly?
A butterfly does not start out as a caterpillar ...The butterfly life cycle consist of four different life stages. Those four stages are egg, caterpillar, pupa and adult or imago.

The scripture does not teach morphing it teaches....And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God's grace profoundly changes those who receive it. Dead in trespasses and sin now made alive in Christ. 2 Cor 5:17 John 3:3 you must be born again. Born again by the washing of regeneration through the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5

When something as big as the devil goes out of your life and someone as big as God enters you must be forever changed. New nature, new life and everything is made new. 1 Cor 2:9

What did you get?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

When you go to church and the pastor is teaching he is teaching to a GROUP of people but the message is for each individual, correct? Each individual is being addressed - anytime someone is speaking to a group - each individual is being addressed. If my boss stands up and addresses a group in the company - He is speaking to EACH employee! And each employee stands on his own merit - same thing as addressing the church. No, an individual in the GROUP cannot fall from being sealed just as an individual cannot become 'unborn'. Either you are born of the Spirit and sealed or you aren't - that simple.

We are God's purchased possession, sealed UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

The condition - faith. Once you are born again you are born of God's Spirit, you are sealed with holy Spirit, you are a purchased possession, purchased by the blood of Christ, UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

The sealing is conditional...to be sealed one must be CONDITIONALLY in the group.

No individual can be sealed outside the group.

The issue is one can fall from that sealed group and therefore no longer be sealed unconditionally apart from the group.

So once a person is in the group he is sealed and remains that way..as long as he remains in the group. No verse says it is impossible to fall from the sealed group.

The group is made up of individuals but it was NEVER the individual sealed apart from the group, it was the group God foreknew and sealed, not the individual. You cannot show one example of an individual that is sealed apart from the group.

 

[notuptome]

Christ died for all men Heb 2:9 so if salvation were unconditional as Eternal Securists claim, then ALL men should be saved. But all men are not saved for all will not CONDITIONALLY obey Heb 5:9

John 3:19-21 Luke 13:34

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

The sealing is conditional...to be sealed one must be CONDITIONALLY in the group.

No individual can be sealed outside the group.

The issue is one can fall from that sealed group and therefore no longer be sealed unconditionally apart from the group.

So once a person is in the group he is sealed and remains that way..as long as he remains in the group. No verse says it is impossible to fall from the sealed group.

The group is made up of individuals but it was NEVER the individual sealed apart from the group, it was the group God foreknew and sealed, not the individual. You cannot show one example of an individual that is sealed apart from the group.

Baloney. Salvation is the gift of God by grace. God's grace is perfect, complete and eternal. God's grace lacks nothing and man has nothing of merit to offer God. Salvation is a take it or leave proposition. John 3:19-21

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BlackPlatypus]

The sealing is conditional...to be sealed one must be CONDITIONALLY in the group.

No individual can be sealed outside the group.

The issue is one can fall from that sealed group and therefore no longer be sealed unconditionally apart from the group.

So once a person is in the group he is sealed and remains that way..as long as he remains in the group. No verse says it is impossible to fall from the sealed group.

The group is made up of individuals but it was NEVER the individual sealed apart from the group, it was the group God foreknew and sealed, not the individual. You cannot show one example of an individual that is sealed apart from the group.

Now all you have to do is post the scripture where Jesus said exactly that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Great now you are recovering some ground. I suggest that you go back and ask yourself it is you or Christ that has done what you say has been done.

I am all for exhorting believers to live for Christ but you exceed the bounds of scripture when you judge another to be able or to have already lost their salvation. I do not advocate that one should live like the devil after they trust Christ as Savior. In fact God's grace changes so profoundly the person that they cannot go back to living like the devil. Not perfect and sinless but never comfortable living in sin.

It is much better to know that you are simply lacking in your discipleship that lacking a saving knowledge of Christ. Once a person is saved their sanctification process begins. They grow in Christ and mature by conforming to His image. Day by day trusting less in self and entirely in Christ. Branches do not produce fruit but they bear the fruit produced by the vine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Once again I do not judge anybody that is your assumption;

What I post is out of scripture, and the scriptures make it clear that if you believe Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior then you can not live in willful sin.

The scriptures make it clear that those who continue in willful sin, or go back to willful sin and do not repent and ask forgiveness of those sins are not truly His.

If you have an issue with this, then the issue is not with me. It is between you and our Lord, and you need to go in prayer and ask Him why the scriptures say this.

 

[notuptome]

Once again I do not judge anybody that is your assumption;

What I post is out of scripture, and the scriptures make it clear that if you believe Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior then you can not live in willful sin.

The scriptures make it clear that those who continue in willful sin, or go back to willful sin and do not repent and ask forgiveness of those sins are not truly His.

If you have an issue with this, then the issue is not with me. It is between you and our Lord, and you need to go in prayer and ask Him why the scriptures say this.

That again sounds more goat-like than sheep-like. My nice way of saying your are stubborn to a fault. God will open your heart to the truth. Salvation by Gods grace cannot be lost. God's grace is perfect, complete and eternal. You can add nothing to it for there is nothing that God lacks in the matter of salvation. Take it or leave it you received the ability to choose when Adam fell and was made able to choose between right and wrong.

Do you really see Christ as so capricious as to allow you to lose your salvation? That seems to dishonor the Lord. If Christ loved you enough to go to Calvary before you knew Him what makes you think He will allow you to jump back into condemnation after He redeems you from your sin?

You post scripture but it does not seem like you have a correct understanding of them. The devil quoted scripture to the Lord in the desert but the devil did not use the correct understanding of the scriptures. The devil of course did it with malicious intent something I do not impute to under discipled believers, babes in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The sealing is conditional...to be sealed one must be CONDITIONALLY in the group.

The sealing is based on faith in Jesus Christ. To be sealed one has to have faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in Jesus Christ makes one part of the GROUP, i.e. the body of Christ

No individual can be sealed outside the group.

Anyone outside the GROUP, i.e. the body of Christ does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

The issue is one can fall from that sealed group and therefore no longer be sealed unconditionally apart from the group.

The issue is do you except what Jesus Christ did for us while we were yet sinners? Do you think God does not know that we will sin, that we will fail at times? God knows us inside and out and he knows that we are just flesh. No matter how hard we try we are going to sin and make mistakes because of our being human, because of our sin nature or because we lack wisdom, etc. Romans 7:14 on shows how we want to practice what is good but it's not in us to do good. [that is in our flesh is no good thing] Our sins are no surprise to God. Our sin nature does not change. [Romans 8:3] For what the law wasn't able to do in that it was weakened by the flesh - IOW God sent the law - what happened? - sin increased - why? because it was weakened by the flesh - our flesh is still weak - we still have a sin nature - more rules and regulations aren't going to help - Romans 5:20 - the law entered and the offences abounded BUT where sin abounded, GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND!!

O wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me? Jesus Christ rescued me and if Jesus Christ rescued me - I am rescued and if Jesus Christ didn't rescue me, I will never make it.

So once a person is in the group he is sealed and remains that way..as long as he remains in the group. No verse says it is impossible to fall from the sealed group.

The group is made up of individuals but it was NEVER the individual sealed apart from the group, it was the group God foreknew and sealed, not the individual. You cannot show one example of an individual that is sealed apart from the group.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. The GROUP is made up of individuals - EACH individual has to place their faith in Jesus Christ, EACH individual has to be born again and then EACH individual is sealed in order to be placed within the GROUP. AGAIN, that seal is until the day of redemption . . . . IF scripture says we are sealed until the day of redemption then we are sealed until the day of redemption.

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us who can be against us? he that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? God that justifieth? Who is he that condemneth? Christ that died, ye rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? . . . . FOR I AM PERSUADED that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[newbirth]

God's grace profoundly changes those who receive it. Dead in trespasses and sin now made alive in Christ. 2 Cor 5:17 John 3:3 you must be born again. Born again by the washing of regeneration through the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5

When something as big as the devil goes out of your life and someone as big as God enters you must be forever changed. New nature, new life and everything is made new. 1 Cor 2:9

What did you get?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The life of the believer is enduring to the end not glorying in the fact that he has been made new....
[SUP]21 [/SUP]When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

 

[newbirth]

That again sounds more goat-like than sheep-like. My nice way of saying your are stubborn to a fault. God will open your heart to the truth. Salvation by Gods grace cannot be lost. God's grace is perfect, complete and eternal. You can add nothing to it for there is nothing that God lacks in the matter of salvation. Take it or leave it you received the ability to choose when Adam fell and was made able to choose between right and wrong.

Here you say we receive from God the ability to choose between right and wrong

Do you really see Christ as so capricious as to allow you to lose your salvation? That seems to dishonor the Lord. If Christ loved you enough to go to Calvary before you knew Him what makes you think He will allow you to jump back into condemnation after He redeems you from your sin?

Here you say God will not allow us to choose between right and wrong

You post scripture but it does not seem like you have a correct understanding of them. The devil quoted scripture to the Lord in the desert but the devil did not use the correct understanding of the scriptures. The devil of course did it with malicious intent something I do not impute to under discipled believers, babes in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

here you are telling someone they do not understand scripture

Truly amazing...

 

[BlackPlatypus]

Amazing that there is a group of people who want to argue Jesus can revoke the salvation he died to give to the world, simply because humans, once saved, can demand it of him.

While no scripture exists wherein Jesus said the holy spirit will no longer indwell in the believer who is saved. Nor is there scripture that exists wherein Jesus says his is the gift through the grace of God of temporary revocable salvation.

But what should really concern Christians is that agenda that insists on convincing us that Jesus does not save or give eternal life. Sounds like atheists upping their assault on religion.

 

[newbirth]

So for you, Jesus would have had to name Saul in order for Jesus to actually have warned of false teachers. And in the case of Paul, who copied exactly what Jesus forewarned, that just isn't true. Even though it is in scripture.

OK, let's see. Do you trust Jesus?

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ,’ or ‘there,’ believe it not. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there shall arise false christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Paul's account Acts 9:1-9)

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Behold, I have told you before.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore, if they shall say unto you, ‘Behold, He is in the desert!’ go not forth; or ‘Behold, He is in the secret chambers!’ believe it not.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.



2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.


With regard to the Apostles of Christ, Jesus instructed them specifically in how to spread the good news: Matthew 10:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:



Contrary to Paul's proclamation he was sent to apostle to the Gentiles, that is not what Jesus said. How would Jesus deliver commandments after he departed the earth and that contradicted what he decreed while here in the flesh? Paul refers to himself 22 times in his epistles as an apostle, while he is referred by others in a off hand way as an apostle only twice.
Not to forget the church at Ephesus, the one church charged with holding trials to judge those who processed themselves to be apostles, found Paul was not an apostle!
And Jesus in Revelation 2:2 reiterated that fact.

Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

There are many more proofs but that's enough for now. You either believe Jesus or you don't.

So you have deduced after careful consideration that Paul is the antichrist
Have you considered Judas would have been one of the twelve he sent out....