Our mortal enemy has deceived the church with many lies!

[ladylynn]

I agree that there are plenty of disputes in local churches. I think Paul means the church as a whole... what do you think?

Jesus has made the bride perfect in every way. He will come for her and the mortal shall put on immortality. There is such peace in knowing Jesus has done it all. The fearful and unbelieving live out their lives just like that... fearfully and unbelieving., Not trusting in the ability of Jesus to have done the finished work from start to finish. He has clothed us in HIS righteousness gifted to us at the time of our salvation.

How frustrating it is for those who don't know who they are already in Christ. They continue to try sooo hard to be what they are already IN Christ. It's like a man trying to stand in the living room when he is already standing in the living room. He works hard at it but never realizes where he already is. He is like a person riding a stationary bike or like a hamster on a hamster wheel. He gets tired ohhhhhh sooooo tired and weary and never finds rest.

There IS a REST to the people of God. When we work., we work to REST. Resting by faith in the finished work of Christ on our behalf and we give Him the credit and the glory due Him. His yoke is easy and His burden is light and not heavy. If there is no joy in the life of a Christian., it's because they are working hard to climb up a ladder that is up against the wrong building.

 

[Grace777x70]

I look at it this way - we are getting the real gospel of the grace of Christ out when we reveal the truth of what the Lord has already done for us! We have a great salvation in Him.

We are not ashamed of the gospel. In "it" is the power of God for salvation. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed - not our own self-righteousness. Romans 1:16-17

 

[FreeNChrist]

There is a multitude of NT verses which teach the red bold above!

The believer who maintains his righteousness is proving that he has real genuine saving faith.

Which is to say: There are many tares running around holding hands with God's sheep.

This is all similar to James saying: without works your faith is dead, works prove genuine faith, etc.

Philippians 3:8-9

"Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For His sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and become one with Him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with Himself depends on faith."

 

[Grace777x70]

And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and "faith righteousness" for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain righteousness and salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".


Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we are a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ - will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.

 

[notuptome]

There is a multitude of NT verses which teach the red bold above!

The believer who maintains his righteousness is proving that he has real genuine saving faith.

Which is to say: There are many tares running around holding hands with God's sheep.

This is all similar to James saying: without works your faith is dead, works prove genuine faith, etc.

This is clearly your way of teaching that you are earning your salvation.

The only thing believers maintain is their walk with the Lord. We are only able to walk with the Lord when we hold His nail pierced hand.

Christ's righteousness is reckoned to us. Christ's justification is reckoned to us. We are saved by and kept by grace.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is clearly your way of teaching that you are earning your salvation.

The only thing believers maintain is their walk with the Lord. We are only able to walk with the Lord when we hold His nail pierced hand.

Christ's righteousness is reckoned to us. Christ's justification is reckoned to us. We are saved by and kept by grace.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

this has been mans problem from the beginning, We can't get out of our own way. its amazing legalistic self righteous thinking is 6000 some years old. (think cain and his offering) And people still fall for it.. And they still get mad when they are told grace prevails based on the blood.. not our works.

 

[gb9]

this has been mans problem from the beginning, We can't get out of our own way. its amazing legalistic self righteous thinking is 6000 some years old. (think cain and his offering) And people still fall for it.. And they still get mad when they are told grace prevails based on the blood.. not our works.

yes, prideful people tend to get upset when they get told that they are not " good people " , and they do not contribute anything to their salvation. ( Titus 3 ).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yes, prideful people tend to get upset when they get told that they are not " good people " , and they do not contribute anything to their salvation. ( Titus 3 ).

Cain killed abel, The jews killed their prophets. The jews Killed Christ, And we are killed all day long by the proud person who refuses to repent because he thinks he is ok, when in reality, he is headed in the wrong gate,, because the narrow gate seems to easy.

 

[eph610]

well..., I think the best thing I can say on the subject is that

I believe that the church of the living God is the pillar and support of the truth.

I also believe this friend...and the majority is this way, while the minority is deceived.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I also believe this friend...and the majority is this way, while the minority is deceived.

I believe the majority which calls it self the church is decieved.. And the minority is the way,, Straight and narrow is the gate, wide and open is the gate the majority wishes to enter by though.

 

[eph610]

I want to add that when I say 'the church as a whole', I'm using Church the way Paul used it here

as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ep+5&version=nasb

I totally agree with you Dan....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I want to add that when I say 'the church as a whole', I'm using Church the way Paul used it here

as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ep+5&version=nasb

I am with ya, But what church is that?

Catholicism

baptist

lutheran

pentecostal

church of christ

etc etc..

or is it a mix of many oth them, all sharing some truth, but no one being perfect..

 

[Dan_473]

It is heartening to see that you have some spiritual wisdom goin' on!

God has been speaking to many Spirit-filled believers lately about
the disastrous condition of the shepherds of His precious sheep.
And they are in for a heap of trouble!
I'm referring to the shepherds, but that means the sheep also!

But, since most here don't believe that God speaks to His people,
especially His prophets and watchmen ... y'all iz in a great heap of trouble!

Sorry to make a joke out of it ...
but sometimes I cry about this, and sometimes I laugh.
P.S. God laughs at unbelief.

I believe God speaks to people today.

If someone believes they have a message from God for the church, then I believe it's the role of other seasoned Christians to hear it and decide if it's right or wrong.

 

[Dan_473]

I also believe this friend...and the majority is this way, while the minority is deceived.

Right! there will always be deceived people and people with other problems in the church.

but for the one church, the body of Christ, the gates of hell can't hold out against it.

 

[Dan_473]

I am with ya, But what church is that?

Catholicism

baptist

lutheran

pentecostal

church of christ

etc etc..

or is it a mix of many oth them, all sharing some truth, but no one being perfect..

I go with the "mix" idea.

I believe that the church is made up of all those who say - and live out - that Jesus is Lord.

 

[eph610]

I go with the "mix" idea.

I believe that the church is made up of all those who say - and live out - that Jesus is Lord.

Along that same line, about 2 years ago I was leaving a grocery store with my wife and we were led to pray for a woman, who was walking with a cane. You could see the edema in her ankles and legs and the veins were black and the skin was beet purple and red, you could see the amount of pain she was under. We asked her what was going on and she told us and we prayed for her right there and the power of the Holy Spirit dropped on all of us.

When we got done praying she looked like a 220 volt of power had hit her and she said...Sir, what religion do you belong to and where can I find this religion that would pray with me in such power and authority....I said I did not belong to religion but to Jesus Christ and he is your healer. She walked into the store and we left.

About 9 months ago, a woman approached me and my wife in the same store. She was all smiles and tears and said HI! We acknowledge her and she said ya'll don't remember do you, we said nope, she said you prayed with me outside of this store one day. Well I left the store and told my husband what you did and he was like silly *^&$%#%! Jesus freaks, about 15 minutes later he stopped all of sudden and almost got us killed...he was crying and said look, look at your legs!!!!

They were normal and we went to my DR and he said I had no signs of the vasculitis and my heart and blood flow was as normal as it was 10 years ago. We went to many churches trying to find the religion you shared with us and we finally found one, she named the Church and she was right, we know the pastor.

As you said Dan, the Church is never the 4 walls...it is living out loud and showing Jesus to people.

 

[PeterJens]

Praise the Lord, a miracle that gives glory to Christ, Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

As you said Dan, the Church is never the 4 walls...it is living out loud and showing Jesus to people.

Amen, showing Jesus to people.

But if we are slaves to sin, we are not showing Jesus but defeat and emptiness,
not the power of the cross, but failure.

There is always a balance between those who appear righteous and are hypocrites
and those who really walk in it.

But it appears to me, that most have now accepted they can never resolve the inner
conflicts, and so will never try, and it is easier to just be religious and not even ask
the questions.

What is ironic, is I have been always talking about getting ones heart right, speaking
from the heart, and someone said I was just saying superficial righteousness has benefit.
They then went on to talk about anger and different aspects of what it means to be
angry.

I find this ironic, because it is obvious you guys have no interest in a clean heart, or
of even discussing what it means to walk righteously. This is why I doubt you know
the truth, because this was Jesus's heart.

When I am accused of being a dark hard hearted hypocrite, that makes me laugh, because
I am talking about resolving this issue, so I am not going to be the very thing I want to talk
about. But as Jesus said, those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, will respond.

 

[disciplemike]

Its not "our" righteousness to maintain, it's Christs.

I hope you see the error of that view soon.

 

[PeterJens]

Why do I come here? That is an interesting question I ask myself.

And the answer is to see what subjects you respond to and which you do not.
Every faith has its blind points and ones which are polarised.

I would hope, sincerely, that people are like Nathanael

When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”
John 1:47

But hey, Jesus was just being sarcastic?