Our new relationship to the law.

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justbyfaith

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Ok. But let's take a look another word Paul uses when someone comes under the blood of Jesus. Let's go to Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

See Paul call this walking in newness of life. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Ephesians 4:23). That's the change, the spiritual change is in your mind when you come in this word of God. Notice verse 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Now this is the physical change (Born again).
Being planted in the likeness of His resurrection is a future event; and being born again does not happen when we receive our glorified bodies, but rather at the moment of first faith. According to John 5:24, we pass from death into everlasting life from that moment.
 

TMS

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our relationship to the law... It is the perfect standard of love and goodness, If you only see it as Love God and Love your neighbour, or the 10 Commandments they are still based on love. The reason we were given it is so we can see right and wrong.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

We are not looking at the law to gain salvation but because we understand that the perfect standard of love is worth having in our heart
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Gods people look to Jesus and Jesus was a perfect example of obedience. We obey not to gain salvation but because we love God.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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At least two of the ten commandments are referred to as being in "the law of liberty" (James 2:10-12).
You are not reading scripture correctly.

James 2:10-11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


The 10 commandments are the subject. The law. Then the laws in the 10 commandments are discussed.


James 2:12-13
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


The law of liberty is the subject. Then one of the laws of liberty is discussed.

The easy way to see the difference here is that there is no room for mercy in the 10 commandments. Do them and be blessed. Don't do them and be cursed. There is no "don't do them but don't worry you shall surely not die because mercy" clause in the 10 commandments.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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So, I suggest that you memorize James 1:25; and then come back to me and tell me what you think Galatians 3:10 means in light of it.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Perfect Law of Liberty. NOT the 10 commandments.

The Work to be performed while/after you have looked into this Perfect Law of Liberty;

Visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep themself unspotted from the world.


Fatherless - those without God (Those who are not in Christ Jesus)
Widows - those without God (Those who are not in Christ Jesus)
Unspotted - Righteous in Christ Jesus


Galatians 3:10 still means exactly what it says. If you look to the 10 commandments to try and obey them then you are under the curse.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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our relationship to the law... It is the perfect standard of love and goodness, If you only see it as Love God and Love your neighbour, or the 10 Commandments they are still based on love. The reason we were given it is so we can see right and wrong.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

We are not looking at the law to gain salvation but because we understand that the perfect standard of love is worth having in our heart
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Gods people look to Jesus and Jesus was a perfect example of obedience. We obey not to gain salvation but because we love God.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Obey what?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You don't obey that. You can't obey that. And that is why it is Condemnation and Death to you.


You have a choice. Look to Jesus or look to the 10 commandments. They are 2 entirely different things. One is Salvation and the other is self-righteousness.


Our relationship to the law;

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

That is also our relationship to self-righteousness.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Perfect Law of Liberty. NOT the 10 commandments.
How, then, do you explain the fact that two of the commandments are included in what is defined as "the law of liberty" in James 2:10-12?
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Galatians 3:10 still means exactly what it says. If you look to the 10 commandments to try and obey them then you are under the curse.
So we ought to disobey the ten commandments?

We should:

commit adultery with our neighbor's wife

kill our neighbor,

steal from our neighbor,

bear false witness against our neighbor,

covet what belongs to our neighbor,

and,

break every other commandment that pertains to our neighbor?

I would contend that disobeying these ten commandments is evidence that the love of the Lord is not shed abroad in your heart and therefore you are not a child of God, if you violate these commandments (Romans 13:8-10).

Are you really contending that the only way to avoid the curse of the law is to break every tenet of it?
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Obey what?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You don't obey that. You can't obey that. And that is why it is Condemnation and Death to you.


You have a choice. Look to Jesus or look to the 10 commandments. They are 2 entirely different things. One is Salvation and the other is self-righteousness.


Our relationship to the law;

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

That is also our relationship to self-righteousness.
Of course we cannot become perfect in our own strength or ability.

However, what we are not able to do, God is able to do.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Of course we cannot obtain this sanctification without being first forgiven.

Once we are forgiven, God is able to place within us the Holy Ghost, by whom we are able to actually obey Him consistently for an extended period of time (Acts 5:32).
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Galatians 3:10 still means exactly what it says. If you look to the 10 commandments to try and obey them then you are under the curse.
If I look into the ten commandments and continue therein, I will be blessed in what I do.

If I seek to be justified through law-keeping, I am under a curse.

As Galatians 3:10 is qualified by its context in Galatians 5:1-4.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Just consider that two of the ten are considered by James to be a part of the law of liberty; which indicates that it just might be that the law of liberty is the ten (and maybe even the 613).
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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How, then, do you explain the fact that two of the commandments are included in what is defined as "the law of liberty" in James 2:10-12?
You are not reading scripture correctly.

James 2:10-11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


The 10 commandments are the subject. The law. Then the laws in the 10 commandments are discussed.


James 2:12-13
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


The law of liberty is the subject. Then one of the laws of liberty is discussed.

The easy way to see the difference here is that there is no room for mercy in the 10 commandments. Do them and be blessed. Don't do them and be cursed. There is no "don't do them but don't worry you shall surely not die because mercy" clause in the 10 commandments.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Just consider that two of the ten are considered by James to be a part of the law of liberty; which indicates that it just might be that the law of liberty is the ten (and maybe even the 613).
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

“Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me.
They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’ You
have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.”


Ah, I see: you are a Judaizer. Jesus called what you speak of as traditions of men.

The 613 were never given to us, and do not apply to us at all.

Plus, the Sabbath commandment was nowhere repeated in the New Testament.

Jesus also said: "Yet not one of you keeps the law." Peter, too.

Jesus is my Sabbath rest :)
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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If I look into the ten commandments and continue therein, I will be blessed in what I do.

If I seek to be justified through law-keeping, I am under a curse.

As Galatians 3:10 is qualified by its context in Galatians 5:1-4.
If you look into the 10 commandments, and continue therein, you will be cursed. Just as scripture states.

If you seek to additionally be justified by your law-keeping then you are silly on top of being cursed.


The Just will live by faith. And the law (10 commandments) is not of faith.


Cursed is everyone who doesn't continue in ALL the things written in the law to do them. If this meant only those who are "trying" to be justified by their law keeping scripture would have explicitly said so. But it doesn't.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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If you look into the 10 commandments, and continue therein, you will be cursed. Just as scripture states.

If you seek to additionally be justified by your law-keeping then you are silly on top of being cursed.


The Just will live by faith. And the law (10 commandments) is not of faith.


Cursed is everyone who doesn't continue in ALL the things written in the law to do them. If this meant only those who are "trying" to be justified by their law keeping scripture would have explicitly said so. But it doesn't.
its sad that lawyers can’t see this

The ministry of death written in stone is the very Ten Commandments they try to push. Which they themselves can’t keep. Hence through them they themselves are cursed. And bind to it.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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You are not reading scripture correctly.

James 2:10-11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


The 10 commandments are the subject. The law. Then the laws in the 10 commandments are discussed.


James 2:12-13
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


The law of liberty is the subject. Then one of the laws of liberty is discussed.

The easy way to see the difference here is that there is no room for mercy in the 10 commandments. Do them and be blessed. Don't do them and be cursed. There is no "don't do them but don't worry you shall surely not die because mercy" clause in the 10 commandments.
James 2:10-11 is one passage, and is not to be divided so that verses 10-11 are separate from verse 12.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

“Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me.
They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’ You
have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.”


Ah, I see: you are a Judaizer. Jesus called what you speak of as traditions of men.

The 613 were never given to us, and do not apply to us at all.

Plus, the Sabbath commandment was nowhere repeated in the New Testament.

Jesus also said: "Yet not one of you keeps the law." Peter, too.

Jesus is my Sabbath rest :)
I am a Judaizer? Are those who will be called great in the kingdom, Judaizers?

Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

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While we cannot keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13), the spirit of the law is a different story:

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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If you look into the 10 commandments, and continue therein, you will be cursed. Just as scripture states.

If you seek to additionally be justified by your law-keeping then you are silly on top of being cursed.


The Just will live by faith. And the law (10 commandments) is not of faith.


Cursed is everyone who doesn't continue in ALL the things written in the law to do them. If this meant only those who are "trying" to be justified by their law keeping scripture would have explicitly said so. But it doesn't.
The reality is, that we obtain the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14). And, if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). Therefore the righteousness of the law does indeed come by faith.

The only sense in which the law is not of faith is in that if we seek to be justified by it, we will be required to keep all of it perfectly from conception into eternity. Which cannot be done (Galatians 6:13).

But if we know that we know that we know that we have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ, looking into the perfect law of liberty (the ten commandments) and continuing therein will bring a blessing rather than a curse.

Of course the ten commandments are fulfilled by love (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6).

And if we are born again, the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5).

Therefore, if we are born again, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Otherwise, I see you contending that those who are born again will do the following:

commit adultery with their neighbor's wife

kill their neighbor

steal from their neighbor

bear false witness against their neighbor

covet their neighbor's belongings

and,

break every other commandment that pertains to their neighbor.

I believe that if this is your position, your god is satan.

Because you are promoting the idea that those who believe in God should commit heinous sins.
 
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