Our responses to claims of Holy Spirit Bapitisms.

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R

ronair

Banned
#41
Jun 18, 2020
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#41
Truth7t7 said:
I dont know what your talking about, the gifts of the Spirit as seen in the bible are real and for today, if your not blinded by the Baptist, that teach the Sign gifts died with the Apostles

As previously stated I received the gift of speaking in tongues 43 years ago, same today as then a fact

Baptist believe and teach that I'm a liar regarding my claim, like telling the blind man Healed by Jesus that he really isnt seeing :giggle:

Yes the Pentecostals in the majority that I have personally witnessed, misuse the gift of speaking in tongues to mention only one, jumping and running around, rolling on the floor etc in complete chaos, the very reason why biblical instruction was written
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"Yes the Pentecostals in the majority that I have personally witnessed, misuse the gift of speaking in tongues to mention only one, jumping and running around, rolling on the floor etc in complete chaos, the very reason why biblical instruction was written"

misuse?.....how about faking.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#42
Jun 18, 2020
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#42
Truth7t7 said:
Can you prove that a person is actually saved, their name is written in the Lambs book of life?

You can observe fruit as the bible clearly teaches, other than that, only one will be able to see the book of life, and lose the seals therof
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Can you prove that a person is actually saved, their name is written in the Lambs book of life? Of course not.

You can observe fruit as the bible clearly teaches, other than that, only one will be able to see the book of life, and lose the seals therof
I don't understand what you are trying to say with this sentence.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#43
Jun 18, 2020
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#43
oyster67 said:
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.



Fruits are the proof of Holy Spirit Baptism, which occurs when one is Born Again. These fruits are not tangible like apples and oranges either. If we turn a blind eye to everything spiritual, then we are in big trouble.
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We are not called to a blind faith but a faith unseen but provable and logical. A faith that is reasonable and does not lead us into chaos.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#44
Jun 30, 2015
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#44
ronair said:
The post is about "modern day" claims not recorded biblical events.

How are we to respond to current claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms, regardless of who or where?
Do we err by accepting the claim as true or do we err by ignoring a possible movement of the Holy Spirit?
If the claim is false should it be exposed or if true, praised as a work of God?
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Thanks for clarifying.

Here's a really simple, biblically sound way of discerning: by the fruit (as Magenta noted).

Otherwise, it's not our job to judge whether or not the "baptism" is genuine. :)
 
R

ronair

Banned
#45
Jun 18, 2020
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#45
Dino246 said:
Thanks for clarifying.

Here's a really simple, biblically sound way of discerning: by the fruit (as Magenta noted).

Otherwise, it's not our job to judge whether or not the "baptism" is genuine. :)
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Okay?? Are we to discern if the claim is genuine by the fruit (as Magenta noted) or is it not our job to judge if it is genuine?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#47
Mar 4, 2020
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#47
ronair said:
These verses do not validate a claim of personal Holy Spirit Baptism. You are reading yourself into the pronouns.
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Galatians is written to the general assembly of churches in Galatia composed of believers in Christ such as myself.

Galatians 1:1-2
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) 2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

The operative word here is "in Christ" which would be me.

How are we baptized into Christ? Through faith in Christ. That's the Holy Spirit baptism.

Galatians 3:26-29
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#48
Jun 18, 2020
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#48
oyster67 said:
God's ways are higher than man's ways. We follow His ways irrespective of whether we think they are logical or not.
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God's ways are both reasonable and logical, they may not seem that way to us but they never lead us into confusion and chaos. Would you not agree?
 
R

ronair

Banned
#49
Jun 18, 2020
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#49
Runningman said:
Galatians is written to the general assembly of churches in Galatia composed of believers in Christ such as myself.

Galatians 1:1-2
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

The operative word here is "in Christ" which would be me.

How are we baptized into Christ? Through faith in Christ. That's the Holy Spirit baptism.

Galatians 3:26-29
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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You don't seem to grasp the meaning of "claim" .

Is a simple claim of Holy Spirit Baptism proof of its validity?

None of your verses are addressing this question, can you not see this?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#50
Mar 4, 2020
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#50
ronair said:
You don't seem to grasp the meaning of "claim" .

Is a simple claim of Holy Spirit Baptism proof of its validity?

None of your verses are addressing this question, can you not see this?
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To be quite fair, your responses are a bit of a moving target. I respond to the last thing you said, rather than your initial question, then you bring up the initial question seemingly puzzled why I didn't specifically address it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Are you aware of gifts of the Holy Spirit, if yes, do you believe they still apply to Christians today? I believe they do. I know people who have healed by the laying on of hands, spoken in tongues, etc. God controls these gifts for His purposes, not the person.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#51
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#51
There is an issue with putting baptism with the Holy Spirit as receiving eternal life.

This is mentioned by Jesus and is in Acts among other places.

What about believers in the OT looking to Christs coming?

There wasn't Holy Spirit baptism then, so you'd have to say people were converted differently in the OT.

This is a problem, because salvation in the OT is the same. Bu grace thru faith in Jesus.

Looking forward to Christ in OT.. looking back to Christs finished work in the NT
 
T

Truth7t7

Well-known member
#52
May 19, 2020
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#52
ronair said:
We are not called to a blind faith but a faith unseen but provable and logical. A faith that is reasonable and does not lead us into chaos.
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I feel no obligation to prove anything to you, however it's my testimony to the forum I received the gift of tongues, and it's the same today 43 years later

No preacher slamming me in the head, or at the altar call in hysteria

In my room while praying, asked and received, instantly a language unknown, and it's the same today

You can call it whatever you want, but it's real and hasn't changed, a fact
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#53
May 23, 2012
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#53
notuptome said:
Every believer is Holy Spirit baptized into Christ the moment they are saved. The multiple baptisms of the Pentecostal charismatic types are not valid because they are not scriptural.

For the cause of Chrisst
Roger
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again a hateful ignorant comment by a person who has no understanding of the context of Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is a gift of empowerment not for salvation. Pentecostals don't believe in "Multiple baptisms". This is more conjecture from a hateful person.

Jesus said in the gospel of John chapter 14:16-17 and 26.


the Comforter will be in you and upon you. And Jesus said in Act 1:8

The Holy Spirit comes into every believer to bear witness they are the children of God and the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer to empower them to do the work of God, the Anointing, the "Unction" as spoken in 1 John 2:20.

This coming upon was seen clearly in the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit is known as the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Might you can find this in Isaiah 11:2,


2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him,

the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,

the Spirit of counsel and might,

the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

Joel 2:28 spoke about the Work of the Holy Spirit and HE would no longer be upon ONLY Kings, priests, prophets, rulers, and judges, but now the Holy Spirit is to be poured out on all. men and women.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#54
Jun 18, 2020
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#54
Runningman said:
To be quite fair, your responses are a bit of a moving target. I respond to the last thing you said, rather than your initial question, then you bring up the initial question seemingly puzzled why I didn't specifically address it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Are you aware of gifts of the Holy Spirit, if yes, do you believe they still apply to Christians today? I believe they do. I know people who have healed by the laying on of hands, spoken in tongues, etc. God controls these gifts for His purposes, not the person.
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My posts are rather straight forward, what is the proper response to claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms?
Should we simply label them as non sequitur or accept them as movements of God?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#55
Mar 4, 2020
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#55
ronair said:
My posts are rather straight forward, what is the proper response to claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms?
Should we simply label them as non sequitur or accept them as movements of God?
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The answer is either true or false fundamentally.

The reason you weren't given a simple yes or no is because the question you're asking isn't black and white enough to simplify.

You need to use your discernment, considering numerous factors, to decide what you believe. I think numerous commenters showed you the tools to help you.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#56
Jun 18, 2020
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#56
CS1 said:
again a hateful ignorant comment by a person who has no understanding of the context of Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is a gift of empowerment not for salvation. Pentecostals don't believe in "Multiple baptisms". This is more conjecture from a hateful person.

Jesus said in the gospel of John chapter 14:16-17 and 26.


the Comforter will be in you and upon you. And Jesus said in Act 1:8

The Holy Spirit comes into every believer to bear witness they are the children of God and the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer to empower them to do the work of God, the Anointing, the "Unction" as spoken in 1 John 2:20.

This coming upon was seen clearly in the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit is known as the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Might you can find this in Isaiah 11:2,


2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him,

the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,

the Spirit of counsel and might,

the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

Joel 2:28 spoke about the Work of the Holy Spirit and HE would no longer be upon ONLY Kings, priests, prophets, rulers, and judges, but now the Holy Spirit is to be poured out on all. men and women.
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"Pentecostals don't believe in "Multiple baptisms".

Pentecostals most certainly do believe in multiple baptisms. Anyone today who accepts a baptism other than water baptism by nature believes in "multiple baptisms". (Eph. 4:5)
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#57
#57
ronair said:
Since modern day claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms are intangible and non-physical, how much validity should such claims be given?
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Hmmm...How much validity should be given to people who assume they are the judge of the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Seems people never get tired of joining this forum to bash what they assume is no longer scripturally accurate
 
R

ronair

Banned
#58
Jun 18, 2020
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#58
Runningman said:
The answer is either true or false fundamentally.

The reason you weren't given a simple yes or no is because the question you're asking isn't black and white enough to simplify.

You need to use your discernment, considering numerous factors, to decide what you believe. I think numerous commenters showed you the tools to help you.
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"The answer is either true or false fundamentally." You are quite correct, hence the need for a proper response.

Claims without proof are like clouds without rain, pretty to look at but of no real consequence.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#59
Jun 18, 2020
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#59
SophieT said:
Hmmm...How much validity should be given to people who assume they are the judge of the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Seems people never get tired of joining this forum to bash what they assume is no longer scripturally accurate
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What is your point?
Do you live your life without judging? I think not.

The question is important and needs to be addressed. Many are led into the ditch of pentecostalism because they refuse to address this fundamental issue.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#60
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#60
ronair said:
"The answer is either true or false fundamentally." You are quite correct, hence the need for a proper response.

Claims without proof are like clouds without rain, pretty to look at but of no real consequence.
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One baptism unto salvation in Christ. Eph 1:13. Many fillings subsequent for authority to minister before the Lord in His Name. acts 1:8, 2:4

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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