Partakers of the Holy Ghost

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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#21
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them gain unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
Kinda ironic that those once enlighten can't describe the taste of the heavenly gift that enlighten them.


According to Acts 19:2-6 receiving the Holy Ghost was associated with believing.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Acts 2:2
Well, what he told you in darkness speak in the light since it is written in Matthew 10:40, "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
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#22
Kinda ironic that those once enlighten can't describe the taste of the heavenly gift that enlighten them.
Where does I say they had to describe the heavenly gift?




Well, what he told you in darkness speak in the light since it is written in Matthew 10:40, "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
I fail to see what this has to do with Paul asking people if they had received the Holy Ghost since they had believed.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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#23
how hard it is for some to just accept the GIFTS of our Holy Saviour!!!
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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#24
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may come from the presence of YHWH."

Psalms 51:10-11, “Create in me a clean heart, O Mighty One, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me.”


1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Amen. When we first confessed and received Jesus we were forgiven all our sins and made righteous in Him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


As believers today under the new covenant (a better covenant than the first) we do not pray as David did that the Holy Spirit not depart from us. He has promised to never leave us but be with us forever. Repenting and being converted has to do with a new birth taking place making us sons of God. And then a daily awareness and willingness to have our old way of thinking changed over thereafter as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
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#25
Repentance parsed
Jesus make Peter a promise in Matthew 16:19. The keys to the Kingdom. Peter uses these's keys the first time on the Temple Mt. At Pentecost as he preaches Christ to Jews ONLY. The door of salvation is opened & 3000 souls are saved.

Here in Acts, Peter uses the Keys again. While preaching Christ to these GENTILES they are filled with the Holy Spirit

Acts 10: 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: They Believed (vs43) & as Petr spoke (vs44) The Holy Spirit fell on then. NO repentance, NO water baptism, NO law keeping etc)

Thru Faith & faith alone these gentiles received the baptism of/were SEALED by, the Holy Spirit (vs45)

45 And they of the circumcision (JEWS) which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(NOTE: The circumcision/JEWS were flabbergasted at the Gentile H/S out pouring. Why? Jn 18:28 the judgment hall in this vs is all GENTILE. Gentiles were considered so ungodly/unclean (commonly referred to as dogs) being in their presence could make a Jew ceremonially unclean.

Look at what Peter tell Cornenlius the Roman Gentile soldier:

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean
(NOTE: Peter say's, """IT'S UNLAWFUL""" for a Jew to keep company with Gentiles)

Acts 11:18 is a direct comment to what happend in Acts 10. Where Gentiles were saved & given the SEAL of salvation = The Holy Spirit. Without any repentance of anykind

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles "granted" repentance unto life.
(NOTE: It was these Gentiles FAITH that lead to the stated "GRANTED REPENTANCE" mentioned in Acts 11:18)

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
(NOTE: After repentance the article "toward" God. No mention of repentance to remove sin. It's faith in Christ's redemptive atoning sacrifice that REMOVES sin 1 Jn1:7, Eph 1:7, Col 1:14, Heb 10:4, Rev 1:5)

For the NT Body of Christ/church - Repentance come's after salvation and is a result/proof of one's FAITH

Romans 1:5 Through him we received grace & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(NOTE: Faith leads to obedience)

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience" "that comes from faith"
(NOTE: Gentiles are brought to obedience/repentance by Faith)

When Faith is your root. Repentance/Obedience will be your fruit.

Finally:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Grace is a GIFT, accesed thru FAITH. Also see Rom 5:2 (A) we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand)

I Cor 15:1-4 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

Rom 10:8-15 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

Ehp 1:13 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

When we trust/rest in Christ, God works. When we trust & work ourselves, Gods Rests.

Faith in Christ's redemptive sin atoning work. That not only purges us from sin. It produces repentance from dead works/fruit.



Amen FlyingDove. We confess Jesus to be saved. We see the truth we cannot save ourselves we need the sinless Savior. Jesus is our Great High Priest who lives after the power of an endless life. This Jesus cannot die like the high priests of the old covenant. Jesus didn't need to have offerings made for His sins like the old covenant high priests because Jesus had no sin. The old covenant priests died and another had to be put in his place for himself and the people. But Jesus will never die and He will always be our guarantee to salvation. He is the GUARANTOR who God sees. AMEN!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#26
Anyone who comes to a church meeting has tasted the Holy Spirit. And have partook his blessings

People who use this passage ignore the basic text. Where it stays, IF THEY FALL AWAY (if it were possible) they could NEVER BE RENEWED.

You want to use this to support your works gospel. You have to also take it to understand that once salvation is lost. It can NEVER BE RESTORED.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
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#27
Anyone who comes to a church meeting has tasted the Holy Spirit. And have partook his blessings

People who use this passage ignore the basic text. Where it stays, IF THEY FALL AWAY (if it were possible) they could NEVER BE RENEWED.

You want to use this to support your works gospel. You have to also take it to understand that once salvation is lost. It can NEVER BE RESTORED.
It doesn't say (if it were possible).

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39

This isn't a works gospel because it says "believe to the saving of the soul."
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#28
It doesn't say (if it were possible).

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39

This isn't a works gospel because it says "believe to the saving of the soul."

It says “if they fall away”

if can be translated 3 ways

If, but they will not (If you could fly, you would not have to drive in this traffic, it is impossible to fly, yet the sentence still is an applicable sentence)

The same type could be used here, If they fall away (the statement being ask, if they fall away, they can not be renewed)

there is two ways to interpret it.

1. If they fall away, they are lost forever, and can not be renewed!

2. If they fall away (if it were possible) they could not be renewed.

the Resolving answer is it puts christs to open shame.

What puts him to shame? A person actually having the ability to fall away or saying a person can fall away, I would say both. If a person can fall away, He is seen as a liar His eternal gift is not eternal. His perfecting forever those being sanctified failed (he could not perfect them forever) his ability to make sure they never fall away is destroyed, because they can actually fall.

as for believing to the saving of the soul. That is not an ongoing thing, it is having true faith, which saves.

And yes, saying we have to continue to believe to maintain salvation is earning salvation, Because it is trusting in your power Not Gods (it is the work of God we believe)

 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#29
Hebrews 6:4-6 is very simple to understand if you just look at the Greek tenses used:

Hebrews 6:4-6King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


In verse 6 both the verbs "crucify" and "put him to an open shame" are present participles - which means action at the same time as the main verb. The main verb is "to renew". It is impossible to renew someone to repentance while at the same time they are "crucifying" Christ again and "putting him to an open shame".

Is it possible to renew someone to repentance if they stop crucifying Christ again and stop putting him to an open shame? The text does not actually answer that question.

But, the text does not make a blanket statement that no one who has fallen away can be renewed to repentance.

Note: If you are a KJV only person, and take the KJV English translation as the final authority, then of course you won't agree with what I am trying to say here.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
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#30
1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

Here we are told that some people shall depart from the faith. You cannot depart from something that you were never in.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#31
1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

Here we are told that some people shall depart from the faith. You cannot depart from something that you were never in.

Yes, and as you see. many churches are failing because the people are walking away.


What it does not say is that people will lose salvation, It says a fact,. In the last days,. The churches will get smaller.

Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?


 
Mar 14, 2011
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#32
Hebrews 6:4-6 is very simple to understand if you just look at the Greek tenses used:

Hebrews 6:4-6King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


In verse 6 both the verbs "crucify" and "put him to an open shame" are present participles - which means action at the same time as the main verb. The main verb is "to renew". It is impossible to renew someone to repentance while at the same time they are "crucifying" Christ again and "putting him to an open shame".

Is it possible to renew someone to repentance if they stop crucifying Christ again and stop putting him to an open shame? The text does not actually answer that question.

But, the text does not make a blanket statement that no one who has fallen away can be renewed to repentance.

Note: If you are a KJV only person, and take the KJV English translation as the final authority, then of course you won't agree with what I am trying to say here.

Or we can take it at face value

The author of Hebrews was fighting Judaism,. He was trying to stop people from walking away from grace and returning to law. So he is making a statement of fact, Returning to law (falling away) puts God to open shame, why? Because the law says you can fall away, and need to be renewed./ It says Christ sacrifice was not enough. And if there was a sin which could cause a person to fall away, it means Jesus did not pay for that sin to begin with, so he would have to return to be crucified again,or everyone who commits that sin will be lost forever (talk about putting him to open shame) And we can also look at tyhe verses which immediately follow. Which talks about rain falling to the earth, and this rain produced fruit which brings blessing, But if it does not produce fruit, it is rejected (as works) and NEAR TO BEING CURSED (ie, it is still saved, it is like the Corinthian example of gold silver precious stone, wood hay straw, if our works endure because of the rain, we recieve reward. if it does not, it is BURNT, yet he himself will be saved.

People want to focus on a few verses, and totally ibgnore context. And all the verses around it would would not support their view.

PS. I am not KJ only, And near to being cursed is in all versions except NLT, a version I would never recommend anyway
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,917
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#33
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them gain unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6

According to Acts 19:2-6 receiving the Holy Ghost was associated with believing.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Acts 2:2

For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him Should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If I'm reading Hebrew 6:4-6 correctly, repentence and faith are bound together. There can't be a saving faith without true repentence.
I agree that repentance and turning from sin is needed for conversion. But, one may or may not receive then the baptism of Holy Spirit at this time. The Spirit of Christ or the understanding that Jesus saves is conversion. The baptism is for ministry to others and for self, the power to live and walk as Jesus did on earth.

And one will have faith for the new beginning, true.

But, then you throw in the warning not to turn away which is a different topic. So which are you really posting about?

The scriptures of warning here in Hebrews is to Hebrews. Hence the name. And is the warning not to turn from the grace of God which is Holy Spirit, and turn back to law.

We have many mixed here in the forum. Confused without realizing who is being spoken to. Such was I too in the beginning.

We can hear His Voice clearer and stronger without condemnation which comes from our trying, come into His rest and begin to overcome the enemy, rather than being overcome.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
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#34
Yes, and as you see. many churches are failing because the people are walking away.


What it does not say is that people will lose salvation, It says a fact,. In the last days,. The churches will get smaller.

Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?


But it can happen.

2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#35
But it can happen.

2Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

What is it with people who can not answer questions.

1. That does not says they lost salvation. It said they knew the way to salvation, but they were never changed, They were a dog before they gained the knowledge, They were a dog after they gained the knowledge,. And they were a dog in the end (aftert they died)
2. A dog will eat his vomit. You can teach a dog a new trick, but he will always attempt to eat his vomit (I have known dogs to eat their own bow movement that is who they are)

What this passage states, is that for a person who KNOWS the way to salvation, and does not become saved, it will be worse for them, and I agree, If I knew the way and rejected it, it was on my fingertips and I let it slip away because of pride. It will be MUCH MUCH worse for me than if I had never heard the truth, or never gained that knowledge.

Now can you answer my question please?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#36
Here, I will ask again by itself

Can anyone answer this?


Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?


 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,725
241
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#37
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them gain unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6

According to Acts 19:2-6 receiving the Holy Ghost was associated with believing.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Acts 2:2

For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him Should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If I'm reading Hebrew 6:4-6 correctly, repentence and faith are bound together. There can't be a saving faith without true repentence.
And Peter also tied obedience to God in with the receiving of the Holy Spirit as well.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

The teaching that obedience is tied to the Holy spirit has been a problem with mainstream preachers for a long time.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,917
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#38
Here, I will ask again by itself

Can anyone answer this?


Can you explain to me why people would lose faith in a God who never lets them down? If you had faith to begin with, were saved, Past from death to life, Given the Holy Spirit. See him work mightily in your life. And a God who never lets you down, Time and time again, you see that when you do his will. Things work out, but when you do not do his will. Things go bad. Can you explain how a person can lose faith?


I can't. I don't think it's possible to lose faith entirely, but one can question the lord when disappointments of expectations come. And I've found that He answers.
 
Dec 27, 2017
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#39
And Peter also tied obedience to God in with the receiving of the Holy Spirit as well.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

The teaching that obedience is tied to the Holy spirit has been a problem with mainstream preachers for a long time.
Yep, Saul had the Holy Spirit then lost it.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#40
Yep, Saul had the Holy Spirit then lost it.
If you are referring to king Saul, yes. Before the Holy Spirit was sent down at Pentecost, this was true, since He came upon some and then departed. But the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ changed everything. Once Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father, the Father and Son *poured out* the Holy Spirit "upon all flesh" as prophesied by Joel. That is why Peter said this after preaching the Gospel on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38): Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ever since, the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (which is also the gift of eternal life) is given by God to every sinner who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. Even Peter and the Jews who accompanied him were surprised that the Holy Spirit was given to all the Gentiles in the household of Cornelius. But that is exactly what the New Covenant was all about -- the gift of the Holy Spirit and the New Birth by the Spirit. Not only does the Spirit regenerate the sinner who believes, but He also comes to indwell the believer, and give him a new heart and a new spirit.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7).

"Which he shed on us abundantly" is another way of saying that the Holy Spirit was "poured out" upon the believer and that he was baptized WITH the Holy Ghost by Christ (as prophesied by John the Baptist). So believers cannot "lose" the Holy Spirit.