Partakers of the Holy Ghost
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he is talking to people who are saved, Working out ThEIR SALVATION, He is saying take the salvation you have, and work it out. He is not saying work to earn salvation.
And yes, with fear and trembling, Paul always had a fear he would do something that would disqualify himself as a teacher, We all should have that same fear. i do, dont you?
Paul never feared his salvation, He said to be absent from the body was to be present with the lord. You can ot say that if you think you still hae to work to earn it.
Yep. So anyone who says if it is grace it is also of works is a liar, while God is true (if it is grace it is no longer works,.
.
God did not save you? Sadly. I am starting to actually believe that.
Yep. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And it is based on hope. What is our hope we trust in? “In the HOPE of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began”
If we have no eternal life, we have no hope. No hope. No salvation!
And yes, with fear and trembling, Paul always had a fear he would do something that would disqualify himself as a teacher, We all should have that same fear. i do, dont you?
Paul never feared his salvation, He said to be absent from the body was to be present with the lord. You can ot say that if you think you still hae to work to earn it.
Yep. So anyone who says if it is grace it is also of works is a liar, while God is true (if it is grace it is no longer works,.
.
God did not save you? Sadly. I am starting to actually believe that.
Yep. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And it is based on hope. What is our hope we trust in? “In the HOPE of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began”
If we have no eternal life, we have no hope. No hope. No salvation!
Did I say they attacked me? Not lately, & not now.
But you say it, & pass it off as truth.
Now you say I'm attacking "them"
How can I attack people I've NEVER NAMED?
You can't say any truth on here without someone crying "He's attacking 'them'!!".
The truly hilarious thing about this is EG has volunteered to fight for "them" who is unnamed, While "them" (whoever they are) hasn't said a single word.
I think EG would pick a fight with us if we said something about Bugs Bunny & Elmer Fudd.
But you say it, & pass it off as truth.
Now you say I'm attacking "them"
How can I attack people I've NEVER NAMED?
You can't say any truth on here without someone crying "He's attacking 'them'!!".
The truly hilarious thing about this is EG has volunteered to fight for "them" who is unnamed, While "them" (whoever they are) hasn't said a single word.
I think EG would pick a fight with us if we said something about Bugs Bunny & Elmer Fudd.
E
Did I say they attacked me? Not lately, & not now.
But you say it, & pass it off as truth.
Now you say I'm attacking "them"
How can I attack people I've NEVER NAMED?
You can't say any truth on here without someone crying "He's attacking 'them'!!".
The truly hilarious thing about this is EG has volunteered to fight for "them" who is unnamed, While "them" (whoever they are) hasn't said a single word.
I think EG would pick a fight with us if we said something about Bugs Bunny & Elmer Fudd.
But you say it, & pass it off as truth.
Now you say I'm attacking "them"
How can I attack people I've NEVER NAMED?
You can't say any truth on here without someone crying "He's attacking 'them'!!".
The truly hilarious thing about this is EG has volunteered to fight for "them" who is unnamed, While "them" (whoever they are) hasn't said a single word.
I think EG would pick a fight with us if we said something about Bugs Bunny & Elmer Fudd.
And if you needed proof? Here you go
And by the way, I am not fighting for anyone. I am standing up for what I believe.
So, you're not fighting for anyone. Just what have you been doing all this time arguing with some of us here then?
I never said you said "them" first.
I remember the chorus, "you got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything". What a crock of lies that phrase was.
Many stand for lies & deceit in these last days. The ones that do will "stand" before the Great White Throne judgment.
They will find out while they were standing, they already had fallen...away.
I never said you said "them" first.
I remember the chorus, "you got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything". What a crock of lies that phrase was.
Many stand for lies & deceit in these last days. The ones that do will "stand" before the Great White Throne judgment.
They will find out while they were standing, they already had fallen...away.
It's just that easy. Tell them you're done & accuse them of being dishonest at the same time.
Then he projects his playing games on us & ends up being the victim.
A piece of work, that one is.
Does anybody else besides me feel like we've been played somehow?
I need to quit engaging with him, because it does something to you after a while. It changes you.
I'm definitely gonna have to pray about it.
Then he projects his playing games on us & ends up being the victim.
A piece of work, that one is.
Does anybody else besides me feel like we've been played somehow?
I need to quit engaging with him, because it does something to you after a while. It changes you.
I'm definitely gonna have to pray about it.
heres my thing though... YOU "We do not press forward to the goal of salvation, salvation is a singular event when we are born again."
the Holy bible, the apostle paul who im sure you qoute alot.
Phillipians 3 " Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Let us therefore, as many as be complete, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
doesnt it bother you in the least, that your statements are the opposite of what the bible teaches though? in fact every apostle taught the church what to do, and what not to do lol its in every single epistle. the only way you guys can see a conditionless salvation, is by ommiting all of the very clear teachings and warnings well after the cross such as this one
romans 2 " But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
i know because of prior discussions that you explain about How what Jesus said before the cross doesnt apply, but what about paul, the same who taught of grace why would He teach things the same as Jesus like this like peter, like solomon if it doesnt belong in the church doctrine though?
why are the churches warned in every epistle, to repent and live right with clear warnings that yes indeed it affects salvation whether you repent or not. none of you have ever given a reason why all that is to be ommited. you just explain that " Jesus finished everything the end" yet....why is 90 percent of the new testament, teachings for believers to believe and live in? what about anything changes Jesus words about the Kingdom of God? theres never ever any scriptural basis to exclude all of the warnings
honestly its the same mistake adam and eve made they too believed " surely i will not die" yet, why do we have these graphic explicit warnings such as romans 2 and
2 thessolonians 1 " And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"
galatians 5 " This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. "
How do you guys deny these parts of scripture when your point is always " we have to do nothing, Jesus finished work already saved us" yet, all of the epistles are full of instructions for what we are supposed to do, How we are supposed to live, still in the epistles you have these really undeniable warnings, in the exact letters paul speaks pf grace and the cross, he doesnt neglect the instructions and He never taught that there is no part we play in salvation. all of them taught to repent of sin ( the will of satan) and turn to God and do the deeds were meant to do, those of the children of God taught By The Son.
doesnt it affect your mind that the Bible always contradicts the gog ? is it just that the gog sounds effortless? that you choose it above the gospel taught By Jesus Christ ? all im saying, and oplease understand, were all free to express our beliefs, you, me, and everyone else as long as were not crossing lines and imo name calling slandering ect, but in the serious hope of provoking you to consider one thing, does it matter to you, if the salvation you speak of is not the same salvation the Bible explains? if it matters, were supposed to believe whats there if we disagree with it, its never Jesus words that are wrong, but our understanding that is lacking. why not just trust the source of creation and another scripture you probably dont like to see
hebrews 8 " Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; "
why then is the message " whether we obey or not were saved by His finished work? he says this regarding His finished work before He went to the Cross as He prayed to His Father in Heaven
john 17 " These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. ( God gave all things and people to Jesus) 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
...v 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."
all i can really say regarding the paul ellis " jesus words arent really for you" stuff, is Jesus said this....
matthew 7:24 " Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
when the doctrine is explaining why his teachings arent for you, its not from God, its the one guarantee , if Jesus says it its forver and God approves....have you ever compared your beliefs to the things Jesus says of salvation? or the things paul says of it ( all of the things he says lol not just bits and peices? or maybe peter? i think we can each find out where we stand, by comparing " our beliefs" and explainations, to the explainations and beliefs of Jesus and the apostles, its why i like discussoing the bible, i believe it contains Gods true Word meant for mankind to believe. sorry to contend, its just that i believe the Bible over the modern movements and " revolutions" in the sworld the past 30 years.
.......what is " salvation" to you? salvation from what?
the Holy bible, the apostle paul who im sure you qoute alot.
Phillipians 3 " Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Let us therefore, as many as be complete, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."
doesnt it bother you in the least, that your statements are the opposite of what the bible teaches though? in fact every apostle taught the church what to do, and what not to do lol its in every single epistle. the only way you guys can see a conditionless salvation, is by ommiting all of the very clear teachings and warnings well after the cross such as this one
romans 2 " But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
i know because of prior discussions that you explain about How what Jesus said before the cross doesnt apply, but what about paul, the same who taught of grace why would He teach things the same as Jesus like this like peter, like solomon if it doesnt belong in the church doctrine though?
why are the churches warned in every epistle, to repent and live right with clear warnings that yes indeed it affects salvation whether you repent or not. none of you have ever given a reason why all that is to be ommited. you just explain that " Jesus finished everything the end" yet....why is 90 percent of the new testament, teachings for believers to believe and live in? what about anything changes Jesus words about the Kingdom of God? theres never ever any scriptural basis to exclude all of the warnings
honestly its the same mistake adam and eve made they too believed " surely i will not die" yet, why do we have these graphic explicit warnings such as romans 2 and
2 thessolonians 1 " And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"
galatians 5 " This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. "
How do you guys deny these parts of scripture when your point is always " we have to do nothing, Jesus finished work already saved us" yet, all of the epistles are full of instructions for what we are supposed to do, How we are supposed to live, still in the epistles you have these really undeniable warnings, in the exact letters paul speaks pf grace and the cross, he doesnt neglect the instructions and He never taught that there is no part we play in salvation. all of them taught to repent of sin ( the will of satan) and turn to God and do the deeds were meant to do, those of the children of God taught By The Son.
doesnt it affect your mind that the Bible always contradicts the gog ? is it just that the gog sounds effortless? that you choose it above the gospel taught By Jesus Christ ? all im saying, and oplease understand, were all free to express our beliefs, you, me, and everyone else as long as were not crossing lines and imo name calling slandering ect, but in the serious hope of provoking you to consider one thing, does it matter to you, if the salvation you speak of is not the same salvation the Bible explains? if it matters, were supposed to believe whats there if we disagree with it, its never Jesus words that are wrong, but our understanding that is lacking. why not just trust the source of creation and another scripture you probably dont like to see
hebrews 8 " Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; "
why then is the message " whether we obey or not were saved by His finished work? he says this regarding His finished work before He went to the Cross as He prayed to His Father in Heaven
john 17 " These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. ( God gave all things and people to Jesus) 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
...v 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."
all i can really say regarding the paul ellis " jesus words arent really for you" stuff, is Jesus said this....
matthew 7:24 " Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
when the doctrine is explaining why his teachings arent for you, its not from God, its the one guarantee , if Jesus says it its forver and God approves....have you ever compared your beliefs to the things Jesus says of salvation? or the things paul says of it ( all of the things he says lol not just bits and peices? or maybe peter? i think we can each find out where we stand, by comparing " our beliefs" and explainations, to the explainations and beliefs of Jesus and the apostles, its why i like discussoing the bible, i believe it contains Gods true Word meant for mankind to believe. sorry to contend, its just that i believe the Bible over the modern movements and " revolutions" in the sworld the past 30 years.
.......what is " salvation" to you? salvation from what?
actually, he is connecting thier obedience to the working out of thier salvation in that statement.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12
he is not saying as some would probably explain here " your salvation is not able to be affected by your actions" is the good news that were already saved really?
we Know paul says to imitate everything we see and hear in him. take a look at pauls attitude AFTER he came to Jesus Christ, which he says we should also have. ( one exampole of several)
1 corinthians 9 " Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do itto obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
paul was fighting against the flesh he preaches about, he spent His life, " crucifying the flesh" in order that he wouldnt be a castaway. did he consider Himself already judged innocent because of the cross?
1 corinthians 4 " But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."
philippians 3 " That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15Let us therefore, as many as be complete, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
we really should have the attitudes the Bible teaches us to conform to, i dont find anyone preaching a message where theres no worries, nothing to do, nothing to take seriously ...the fear of God is still a thing for christians we need that to be motivated to repent and crucify the sinfulness in us. when the spirit came on the early church, fear of God came upon them all and the church flourished and increased as they walked in the apostles doctrines, now days, the doctrine is " there really is no doctrine its all grace now" troubling, i know you dont feel that way it seems alot of folks do though.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]
amen
[FONT="]1 John 3:24, “And [/FONT][FONT="]the one guarding His commands stays in Him[/FONT][FONT="], and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
[/FONT]john 14 " If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
1 john 2 " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ( john 14:15-17)5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
john 14" 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him....v23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
2 john 1:9 " Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
john 7:16-17 " Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."
1 john 5: " Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
john 17 " For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; ( deuteronomy 18:15-18, acts 3:22-25 john 12:48-50)and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me......v 17 " Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. "
john 8:31-35 " Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin"
romans 6 : " Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( john 8:31-35) 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20For when ye were the servants of sin, ( whoever commits sin is the servant of sin john 8:34) ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[FONT="]1 John 3:24, “And [/FONT][FONT="]the one guarding His commands stays in Him[/FONT][FONT="], and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
[/FONT]john 14 " If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
1 john 2 " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ( john 14:15-17)5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
john 14" 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him....v23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
2 john 1:9 " Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
john 7:16-17 " Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."
1 john 5: " Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
john 17 " For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; ( deuteronomy 18:15-18, acts 3:22-25 john 12:48-50)and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me......v 17 " Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. "
john 8:31-35 " Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin"
romans 6 : " Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( john 8:31-35) 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20For when ye were the servants of sin, ( whoever commits sin is the servant of sin john 8:34) ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
U
Be careful that you do not use perverted logic and say that those who hold to the all sufficiency of the grace of Christ to save apart from works, preach a license to sin.
Paul was also slandered, falsely, with this very same lie.
Pay close attention to the last part and what he says. Their condemnation is deserved.
Romans 3:8
8Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “- Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!
This ministry slanders the Gospel by falsely claiming that the true Gospel is a license to sin, which is the distorted logic
of let us do evil that good may come
Paul was also slandered, falsely, with this very same lie.
Pay close attention to the last part and what he says. Their condemnation is deserved.
Romans 3:8
8Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “- Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!
This ministry slanders the Gospel by falsely claiming that the true Gospel is a license to sin, which is the distorted logic
of let us do evil that good may come
U
Here is a quote from their materials,
In other words, the eternal security teachers want us to believe that once you get born again you can turn and become wicked, vile, stray into false doctrine about the gospel, not bring forth good fruit, etc. and never imperil your eternal salvation
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/salvationpsColor.pdf
In other words, the eternal security teachers want us to believe that once you get born again you can turn and become wicked, vile, stray into false doctrine about the gospel, not bring forth good fruit, etc. and never imperil your eternal salvation
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/salvationpsColor.pdf
I agree with you Studyman.
I like to hear different perspectives and I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying here. It is after all loaded with Scripture which I appreciate very much.
I agree 100% that’s there is a call for obedience. But this call is not to be saved, but because we are saved.
He works in us the will and desire to follow Him. Not that He controls us, but He woos us with His love, His kindness, and His goodness.
Those who are saved He fashions into sons and daughters. This is the work of His Holy Spirit who convicts us not of simply sin, but of our righteousness in Him.
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be the object of His love. Not that He is willing that any should perish, but He does know who will not believe in Him who He sent.
I like to hear different perspectives and I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying here. It is after all loaded with Scripture which I appreciate very much.
I agree 100% that’s there is a call for obedience. But this call is not to be saved, but because we are saved.
He works in us the will and desire to follow Him. Not that He controls us, but He woos us with His love, His kindness, and His goodness.
Those who are saved He fashions into sons and daughters. This is the work of His Holy Spirit who convicts us not of simply sin, but of our righteousness in Him.
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be the object of His love. Not that He is willing that any should perish, but He does know who will not believe in Him who He sent.
I also believe David when he said in the Spirit of Christ;
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
God's Work's, not mans lest he should boast.