Partakers of the Holy Ghost

[UnderGrace]

"people" is just a general term even beyond this discussion board.

As a former Catholic I praise God each day that someone pointed out all its errors to me and set me free from its bondage.

You are and I are unable to discuss...not personal .....but perhaps you could just ignore my comments or something.

well I know you picked that up right here in the forums...or at least a copy/paste version of it

nonsense...sorry, but in what way, shape or form does that say we don't also change our behavior?

does changing one's mind not change how we behave?

IMO, there is NO difference

if we renew our minds, as per scripture instructions, then of course our minds are changed. duh

honestly, can we just actually go a little further then picking up handy dandy expressions along the way or RC errors as an excuse as to why the Bible does not say what in fact it does say?

and truly I am not picking on you...or angry at you...or whatever

I've read the RC posts, including this one, more than once and whole lotta other nonsense that was deposited here once upon a time

see the harm it does? well...I don't suppose that is the view of certain folks, but it is the reality

sigh...and one more thing...who told you what people do or do not realize????

 

[stonesoffire]

You are a very good friend of EG to defend him. Loyalty is a good thing. But I never ever even suggested anywhere on this forum or any where else, that I could forgive my own sins. It was a cheap shot, it is a lie, and he shouldn't have said as much. But I forgave him so the slate is clean to start anew.

At one point in my life I stole, I dishonored God by defiling Jesus' Sabbaths that He created for me, I broke His Commandments because I didn't care about Him. But something happened to me. I was drawn to "Seek" Him. I found out He actually died so my rebellion and dishonor towards Him could be taken away. That is good news.

So I turned to Him as did many examples in the Bible. Why would I demand more Blood from Him by stealing any more? Why would I dishonor Him by continuing to defile His Sabbaths that He created for me?

We all have God's Word and we all have the serpent's word, just like Eve. We all make the choice between the two as Jesus wrote before becoming a man. (Duet. 30)

God's Word teaches honor, respect and obedience to God/Jesus and His instructions.

The other claims to be from God as well, but teaches us we don't have to honor, respect or obey God's Instructions. It's so simple even a child can understand. As Paul teaches.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Cor. 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So I have entered the Rest" of God in that I no longer do my own "works" but the Works created by Jesus that are in me, written on my heart. This would include honoring His Sabbath that He created for me, that He is Lord of, that both Him and Paul walked their whole lives.

Now the serpent is still there as well. It has a doctrine and uses the Word of God to promote it. It has always taught that we don't need to listen to God's Words, that we can create our own truth.

This teaching does indeed "LOOK" good to many as it did with Eve.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,

But I don't trust my sight as Jesus explained it is evil and wicked above all things. I trust Jesus to guide my steps, not some church, or the pope, or my own thoughts or the serpent.

Jesus life as a man on earth is "Finished". My life as a man on earth is not. I am to endure to the end as He did. I am to live by EVERY Word that He speaks, both as a man and as God of the Old Testament.

Matt. 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,(Not the serpent disguised as an Apostle of Christ) in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

This is my hope.

I have no doubt of your salvation studyman. All of our experiences of conversion have similar stories. I could ream my heart out crying over my past sin, but that is unprofitable. My testimony is Jesus and what He has accomplished for me, unless am led to reveal past issues.

The problem as I see it, is reading the NT as a rule book, rather than a guide to show what we are given in Holy Spirit. Plus a new heart-new nature doesn't need rules unless immature. We have been given Sonship with Jesus. We may be under a tutor for a time, but marurity doesn't need law. Doesn't need to know right from wrong because discernment comes with maturity.
Discernment is to see which spirit is at work. In others, and what we ourselves are hearing and saying. Guard what we have, not try to get what is free.

Capice? Or not?

I said discernment not suspicion. Many think they have it but is just judging one. Not trusting the Lord in another.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"people" is just a general term even beyond this discussion board.

As a former Catholic I praise God each day that someone pointed out all its errors to me and set me free from its bondage.

You are and I are unable to discuss...not personal .....but perhaps you could just ignore my comments or something.

you been hanging around some people far too much if you have to say things like 'just ignore my comments'

are you of the opinion this is no longer a DISCUSSION forum?

just discuss if you disagree...don't send me to hades

really though, why is it you think people do not realize? and yes, I have read almost the exact same thing you posted but not from you and some long time ago...I read stuff in the forums...the archives are vast

abtw? I have known, even been best friends with Catholics..so no worries

 

[stonesoffire]

I have no doubt of your salvation studyman. All of our experiences of conversion have similar stories. I could ream my heart out crying over my past sin, but that is unprofitable. My testimony is Jesus and what He has accomplished for me, unless am led to reveal past issues.

The problem as I see it, is reading the NT as a rule book, rather than a guide to show what we are given in Holy Spirit. Plus a new heart-new nature doesn't need rules unless immature. We have been given Sonship with Jesus. We may be under a tutor for a time, but marurity doesn't need law. Doesn't need to know right from wrong because discernment comes with maturity.
Discernment is to see which spirit is at work. In others, and what we ourselves are hearing and saying. Guard what we have, not try to get what is free.

Capice? Or not?

I said discernment not suspicion. Many think they have it but is just judging one. Not trusting the Lord in another.

He sure does.

He also gets by with more than you realize, too.

He's special to someone on CC, that's for sure.

are you his brother?


ipad is picking up posts and posting them where it's not my intention. Bad iPad!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Babes in Christ have commented on more than one occasion how grateful they are for the defenders of the faith in the NBW thread, those who do spiritual battle against the legalists and workers for salvation. It is not for everyone to post in every thread or take up such defenses, but many seem to love using that thread as a target for their shooting practice in other threads all over this site, as if somehow when they are being critical, they are magically exempt from the labels they love to stick on others, no matter which thread they are in. One thing anyone who does spend any time there may notice, is how often the very fact that there is any amount of unity and fellowship in the NBW thread, is called something else, as if unity and fellowship itself was a bad thing, and made us all a bunch of wolves.

people can suck up bad teaching or good teaching and 'babes' don't know the diff

we see it differently

some with a good beginning get pulled over to the side and get on the wrong road

but you know, God is faithful

I don't understand it all (how God works) but I trust He certainly sees and knows it all

 

[Zmouth]

However, One can not be saved by their works.

Why not? It is written that all things are possible to those who believe, so if they believe that they can be saved by their works then why would anyone who has faith that all things are possible to them that have faith not believe that he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Seems pretty obvious that he that believes in God without works will not obtain the reward because without faith the believer can never come to the knowledge of the truth. Thus it is written, for that cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

okay but why is that how its interpreted ? How about just simply what Jesus says? the point really is that even though Jesus has a ministry and teaches us to learn and Keep His teachings, he is not without mercy when a follower fails or even falls away. he is not willing that even One person is lost. what Jesus died for, is to save us and not condemn us. what He said has everything we need, because it has many things like this

john 6:29 " Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

john 8:51rily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death."

Luke 7 " And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."


and there are all of the statements about learning and obeying His commands also, you see events where Jesus embraces sinners tightly with a firm and warm embrace, but he is always teaching them the truth at the same time, he is never explaining How they dont have to repent, or obey Him. His message is " I love you this much, Now believe me because you Know I love you this much"


Jesus is not like the mosaic Law, if a believer transgresses, they have the opportunity to repent and be forgvien, under the mosaic Law, the sinner was punished and if the sin didnt rewuire a death sentance or excommunication, the offering was made and sins were forgvien, or rather placed upon the " scapegoat" of the sin sacrificial system and carried into the desert away from israel.

Jesus will not condemn someone for not being perfect, in fact His doctrine provides for our forgiveness as we follow its not stone and the inbreakable letters, its the spirit of the Love He taught. to treat others the way Jesus taught us to treat others. if we sin, we do Have an advocate who we know Loves us that much and He is there interceeding for us, pleading for us before God the Father. the law was if you do this you will die without mercy. adulterer> must surely be stoned" a son or daughter who dishonors the parent>? must surely be stoned....they didnt have the option of Gods ongoing patience with us, and the power of the spirit Given in Christ Jesus.

if they transgressed as a member of Gods people they were executed by the fellow brethren. Now, its like he did eith peter, id just accept what He actually said was " if anyone denys me before men, i will deny Him before my father in Heaven" its just what He said clearly.

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


thats so straight forward why do we need a different understanding of it? the truth is that the Gospel is Grace and truth together, there is forgiveness and the assurance that He will not leave us or forsake us, and there is also lessons were meant to learn believe and live out. we see His will to forgive us, and we also see His constant true warnings of where sin will lead us. no one is yet perfect, and there is mercy like a river in the Gospel, along with the truth of Gods Kingdom and eternal Life.

if anyone denies me before men" peter did that 3 times, do you think its not connected that Jesus asked Him 3 times later do you love me? peter the same who had denied Him 3 times? thats Jesus mercy and Gods grace for peter. do you think peter ran outside and wept bitterly because maybe Jesus had taught them not to deny Him? and yet Jesus still is extending mercy and Grace to peter even though peter did something, wrong....?


thats more how i see it, Grace doesnt end at the cross either, as we follow Jesus grace remains upon our lives and even when we fail, grace is there to allow our repentance and forgiveness every time. were told to make every effort to enter....its not as cold and harsh as the Law, because its meant to save and redeem rather than sentance to death.

okay but why is that how its interpreted ?

Why not?

And ye shall be hated of all men for my Name: but he that endureth to the end, he shall be saved. v.22​

 

[Magenta]

Babes in Christ have commented on more than one occasion how grateful they are for the defenders of the faith in the NBW thread, those who do spiritual battle against the legalists and workers for salvation. It is not for everyone to post in every thread or take up such defenses, but many seem to love using that thread as a target for their shooting practice in other threads all over this site, as if somehow when they are being critical, they are magically exempt from the labels they love to stick on others, no matter which thread they are in. One thing anyone who does spend any time there may notice, is how often the very fact that there is any amount of unity and fellowship in the NBW thread, is called something else, as if unity and fellowship itself was a bad thing, and made us all a bunch of wolves.

I neglected to mention those pesky sinless perfectionists. My bad

 

[1ofthem]

God does the saving and the cleaning up, we can't do it ourselves he is the one who inclines our heart unto him to do his will. But there has to be an effort on our parts to seek him and his face continually, to pray without ceasing and to follow and obey his commandments.

Jesus tells us to take up our cross and follow him. He gives us that opportunity, but that is something that we have to choose to do. We have to put him above all things...He says that if we do not then we are not worthy of him. Matt. 10:38 He also tells us to count the cost...We have to be willing to give him our whole hearts and follow him, and yes there are costs in this because we have to be willing to sacrifice and lay down things in this life (sin and any thing that goes against God's commandments and His will for our life). Luke 14:28

So yes God, is the one that saves us and inclines our hearts to righteousness, but we have to sow in righteousness and that is to seek him, do his will, and take up our cross and follow him. We have to be willing to lay down our own lives and put him first, and obey him or we are not worthy of him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why not? It is written that all things are possible to those who believe, so if they believe that they can be saved by their works then why would anyone who has faith that all things are possible to them that have faith not believe that he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I think Paul said it best, Not of works LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST

If abraham was found by works, he has something to boast.

Boast means to be proud,. To be able to take credit for. To be able to OWN it.

He also said, if it is of grace, it is no longer of works. Otherwise grace is no longer grace.

If we can save ourself by works. The cross is meaningless. And christ died in vein.

If they believe they are saved by their works, who is their faith in? Self? Or God.

Who saved you,. Yourself, or God.

if you say youi have to add to the work of God, your saying Gods work was not enough, thus he really did not save you at all..

All things are possible. To those who are Gods children. If you have no faith, Your not gods child. You can not work your way into being a child of God.

An adopted child did not work to gain parents. Parents loved the child and worked to make him their child.

Seems pretty obvious that he that believes in God without works will not obtain the reward because without faith the believer can never come to the knowledge of the truth. Thus it is written, for that cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie.

A person is not saved by belief, they are saved by faith.

I can say I believe in God. But if I never do what he asks, Did I trust him? Of course not. By belief was in word only. It had no meat, it had no power.

 

[1ofthem]

Matt 10:33 and Luke 12:9 Jesus said "if you deny me before man, I will deny you before the Father."
Then we find in Titus that a person can be a denier of God, by their very works.
​

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in WORKS they DENY Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good WORK reprobate.​

Either make the tree good or corrupt Matt. 12:33...Can a fountain send forth sweet and bitter water at the same time James 3:11...and God says he would have us hot or cold...not lukewarm or he will spew us out of his mouth.Rev. 3:15-16

No one is perfect and we all make mistakes, but we need to be willing to repent and learn from those mistakes...God chastises us because he loves us. Rev. 3:19-22

 

[Studyman]

I have no doubt of your salvation studyman. All of our experiences of conversion have similar stories. I could ream my heart out crying over my past sin, but that is unprofitable. My testimony is Jesus and what He has accomplished for me, unless am led to reveal past issues.

The problem as I see it, is reading the NT as a rule book, rather than a guide to show what we are given in Holy Spirit. Plus a new heart-new nature doesn't need rules unless immature. We have been given Sonship with Jesus. We may be under a tutor for a time, but marurity doesn't need law. Doesn't need to know right from wrong because discernment comes with maturity.
Discernment is to see which spirit is at work. In others, and what we ourselves are hearing and saying. Guard what we have, not try to get what is free.

Capice? Or not?

I said discernment not suspicion. Many think they have it but is just judging one. Not trusting the Lord in another.

I understand your doctrine perfectly as it is the teaching of mainstream Christianity. I just don't trust mans word over Gods.

I don't buy into the preaching that a mature "Believer" proves their maturity by walking in their own religious doctrines and traditions, while rejecting the instructions of God. To me this message is the same as the one the serpent gave to Eve.

Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (if your reject God's instructions) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject God's Words) then your eyes shall be opened, (You will be a mature "Christian") and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

As for discernment, I don't use mine, I use Gods. He said it was a evil wickedness to create images of God in the likeness of ANYTHING on earth. Yet "mature" believers partake in this activity all the time, in Christ's name.

God teaches that creating "Feasts unto the Lord" is a evil wickedness that we should never partake in. Yet, mainstream Christianity almost commands that the entire world partake in this wickedness.

I could go on and on, but to no avail. I am forced to choose, as was Eve, on whether to listen to "man's discernment" or Gods. I choose God's given the examples Jesus wrote for my admonition, given the choice Eve made and the consequences that followed.

I know you mean well, and your really believe what you believe.

We are just going to have to disagree SOF.

 

[1ofthem]

I understand your doctrine perfectly as it is the teaching of mainstream Christianity. I just don't trust mans word over Gods.

I don't buy into the preaching that a mature "Believer" proves their maturity by walking in their own religious doctrines and traditions, while rejecting the instructions of God. To me this message is the same as the one the serpent gave to Eve.

Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (if your reject God's instructions) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject God's Words) then your eyes shall be opened, (You will be a mature "Christian") and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

As for discernment, I don't use mine, I use Gods. He said it was a evil wickedness to create images of God in the likeness of ANYTHING on earth. Yet "mature" believers partake in this activity all the time, in Christ's name.

God teaches that creating "Feasts unto the Lord" is a evil wickedness that we should never partake in. Yet, mainstream Christianity almost commands that the entire world partake in this wickedness.

I could go on and on, but to no avail. I am forced to choose, as was Eve, on whether to listen to "man's discernment" or Gods. I choose God's given the examples Jesus wrote for my admonition, given the choice Eve made and the consequences that followed.

I know you mean well, and your really believe what you believe.

We are just going to have to disagree SOF.

I'm not really sure what your talking about when you say People are partaking in "feasts unto the Lord"....but I do get the doctrines and traditions of men...The Lord has been bringing this to my mind a lot lately. I've noticed you have many out there adding to the word of God simply because of traditions of men and you also have many out there taking away from the word of God.

Lately, I've learned that some of the things I was raised and taught to believe is nothing more than traditions of men. It is not supported by the word of God.

So yes, the devil is still just as tricky as he was in the garden...he is all about adding and taking away from the word of God because he does not want us to understand and follow the instructions of God.

God told me when I first got saved to look straight to him and not to the left or the right, and I am learning more and more why that it is of utmost importance to look straight unto God for my teaching and guidance and not man.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have no doubt of your salvation studyman. All of our experiences of conversion have similar stories. I could ream my heart out crying over my past sin, but that is unprofitable. My testimony is Jesus and what He has accomplished for me, unless am led to reveal past issues.

The problem as I see it, is reading the NT as a rule book, rather than a guide to show what we are given in Holy Spirit. Plus a new heart-new nature doesn't need rules unless immature. We have been given Sonship with Jesus. We may be under a tutor for a time, but marurity doesn't need law. Doesn't need to know right from wrong because discernment comes with maturity.
Discernment is to see which spirit is at work. In others, and what we ourselves are hearing and saying. Guard what we have, not try to get what is free.

Capice? Or not?

I said discernment not suspicion. Many think they have it but is just judging one. Not trusting the Lord in another.

I understand your doctrine perfectly as it is the teaching of mainstream Christianity. I just don't trust mans word over Gods.

I don't buy into the preaching that a mature "Believer" proves their maturity by walking in their own religious doctrines and traditions, while rejecting the instructions of God. To me this message is the same as the one the serpent gave to Eve.

Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (if your reject God's instructions) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject God's Words) then your eyes shall be opened, (You will be a mature "Christian") and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

As for discernment, I don't use mine, I use Gods. He said it was a evil wickedness to create images of God in the likeness of ANYTHING on earth. Yet "mature" believers partake in this activity all the time, in Christ's name.

God teaches that creating "Feasts unto the Lord" is a evil wickedness that we should never partake in. Yet, mainstream Christianity almost commands that the entire world partake in this wickedness.

I could go on and on, but to no avail. I am forced to choose, as was Eve, on whether to listen to "man's discernment" or Gods. I choose God's given the examples Jesus wrote for my admonition, given the choice Eve made and the consequences that followed.

I know you mean well, and your really believe what you believe.

We are just going to have to disagree SOF.

I can agree to disagree, but that doesn't mean I stop posting. Even to you if I believe I should.

I have no idea who you call mainstream, nor do I know those you believe is this way. What I say, is what I see in scripture. A son is similar to being a servant while growing up in the house of God. You have not read this?

Gal 4:1 Now what I am saying is this: As long as an heir is a child, he is no better off than a slave, even though he owns everything.
Gal 4:2 Instead, he is placed under the care of guardians and servant managers until the time set by the father.

This is what law does. Makes us servants not Sons. Maturity is to come into Gods rest. What He gave us through His Son. This is the working out of our salvation as I understand this. And why I understand this is because I experienced this.

I worked hard to be what God had already created. His child.

And I said nothing about feasts or what the other thing was which I've forgotten.

The result of our trying by the way, will be fear and trembling, but not the fear of the Lord that is healthy.

 

[Cee]

You are a very good friend of EG to defend him. Loyalty is a good thing. But I never ever even suggested anywhere on this forum or any where else, that I could forgive my own sins. It was a cheap shot, it is a lie, and he shouldn't have said as much. But I forgave him so the slate is clean to start anew.

At one point in my life I stole, I dishonored God by defiling Jesus' Sabbaths that He created for me, I broke His Commandments because I didn't care about Him. But something happened to me. I was drawn to "Seek" Him. I found out He actually died so my rebellion and dishonor towards Him could be taken away. That is good news.

So I turned to Him as did many examples in the Bible. Why would I demand more Blood from Him by stealing any more? Why would I dishonor Him by continuing to defile His Sabbaths that He created for me?

We all have God's Word and we all have the serpent's word, just like Eve. We all make the choice between the two as Jesus wrote before becoming a man. (Duet. 30)

God's Word teaches honor, respect and obedience to God/Jesus and His instructions.

The other claims to be from God as well, but teaches us we don't have to honor, respect or obey God's Instructions. It's so simple even a child can understand. As Paul teaches.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Cor. 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

So I have entered the Rest" of God in that I no longer do my own "works" but the Works created by Jesus that are in me, written on my heart. This would include honoring His Sabbath that He created for me, that He is Lord of, that both Him and Paul walked their whole lives.

Now the serpent is still there as well. It has a doctrine and uses the Word of God to promote it. It has always taught that we don't need to listen to God's Words, that we can create our own truth.

This teaching does indeed "LOOK" good to many as it did with Eve.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes,

But I don't trust my sight as Jesus explained it is evil and wicked above all things. I trust Jesus to guide my steps, not some church, or the pope, or my own thoughts or the serpent.

Jesus life as a man on earth is "Finished". My life as a man on earth is not. I am to endure to the end as He did. I am to live by EVERY Word that He speaks, both as a man and as God of the Old Testament.

Matt. 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,(Not the serpent disguised as an Apostle of Christ) in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

This is my hope.

I agree with you Studyman.

I like to hear different perspectives and I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying here. It is after all loaded with Scripture which I appreciate very much.

I agree 100% that’s there is a call for obedience. But this call is not to be saved, but because we are saved.

He works in us the will and desire to follow Him. Not that He controls us, but He woos us with His love, His kindness, and His goodness.

Those who are saved He fashions into sons and daughters. This is the work of His Holy Spirit who convicts us not of simply sin, but of our righteousness in Him.

He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be the object of His love. Not that He is willing that any should perish, but He does know who will not believe in Him who He sent.

 

[followjesus]

Beautifully stated!!

People keep trying to finish what Jesus has already done, thereby falsely making the work of Jesus incomplete.

actually people create a false doctrine and omit the things Jesus Christ said and invent a doctrine that isnt there in scripture and call it the gospel. Jesus work finished ? according to Jesus it happened because He had given the word of God to them, BEFORE the cross. you cannot omit the words of Jesus christ and create a new salvation. there is no place in scripture that will even suggest anyone is saved apart from Jesus and His words. if He says something, its final. and Jesus taught repentance and obedience to His word, unto eternal Life. its really a non argument, its easy to settle by Just going to the scripture, but then, it becomes " well that was what Jesus said before the cross its all different now. yet, after the cross he sent His disciples and said " go teach the world the same gospel i taught to you teach them to obey it" doesnt it affect christians whos beliefs are all contrary to Jesus CHRIST thier Lord?


its strange that the " his finished work " doctrine doesnt appear in scripture to explain How Hes already saved everyone, must have been missed by the apostles who were cont=stantly teaching the church to repent of sin and press forward toeward the goal. paul who actually says he doesnt know his judgement that Jesus will make the judgement when He comes. Paul who makes plain " we will each answer for the deeds we do whether good or bad" paul who la=boured and strove that " he wopuld not be a castaway.


Jesus work is finished, hes seated beside God in Heaven, our work is to follow Him. the gog is a deception the "finished work of the cross" is not what you guys are making it. if you have to accept the cross, and deny Jesus ministry, youve gotten it terribly wrong. you have to be able to accept whatthe Lord said along with the cross. thats salvation

 

[followjesus]

Have you not died to sin with Jesus? Been resurrected with Him? You know. The revelation given to Paul? What was accomplished by the Cross of Jesus?

So you must pick up your Cross and suffer the burden of what Jesus meant to free you? Or do you identify with His? And daily believe to faith in the power of ressurection life?

You have not yet come to sabbath rest and are yet struggling to do what has already been "finished".

EG sees much more than you realize.

"Have you not died to sin with Jesus? Been resurrected with Him?" Have you? lets take a look at the teaching you are talking about

romans 6 : What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.7For he that is dead is freed from sin."


do you not see the role you are supposed to play here? if you believe you died and are raised again in christ, then you have no excuse anymore for one sin. that means you are not a sinner anymore, you the sinner died on the cross, and are n9o longer that person. now you are born again. do you think it matters now how you live being that Jesus is only going to died for sin 1 time, and you cant later, die again and be raised up again to " live a new life free from sins control over you"


the knowledge is one thing the faith to believe it and walk it is another. do you notice that even though paul teaches about the cross, he also even moreso teaches them to turn from thier sinful actions, in response to what Jesus did? and to do the things of the spirit, the things Jesus taught.


theres a big difference in the argiment Jesus is there and able to save us" and " Jesus died so now were all saved no matter what we choose to do" the latter doctrine doesnt exist in scripture. and the entire bible plainly is teaching the reader to believe and do the things they are reading. the bible is a lesson book meant to believe learn and live out. Jesus dying isnt everything, its essential and salvation cant exist without it, but the same is true of Gods Word given through the Christ. that too is essential. when grace doesnt rewuire ou to omit the word of God, then it will lead to salvation, if grace means you have to deny the truth of Jesus word, it will not lead to salvation. the one thing no one can do is deny and refuse to accept His words thats the judgement well face in the end john 12:48-50. according to what the One who died said, we will be held accountable and its only right because it was He who suffered, bled and died to ransom us from death. its a shame when christians refuse to accept the words of the One who died for them, no matter the logic behing the thinking, its not from God to refuse the Words of His only begotten, it will bring wrath

 

[Zmouth]

I think Paul said it best, Not of works LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST

Maybe Paul did say it, but it is written, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

He also said, if it is of grace, it is no longer of works. Otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Maybe Paul did say it, but it is written, "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written..." Rom 3:4

Who saved you,. Yourself, or God.

Neither.

A person is not saved by belief, they are saved by faith.

Faith in what? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God so did you receive it by faith or did you receive it by believing?

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 1 Thess 2:13

 

[followjesus]

Good morning Cee., I like the way you put it as well. He is always for us and never against us. A truth many believers don't know. Sad to say many Christians believe that should they fail and fall., God will turn away from them in disgust.

But we who have learned about and (believe in) the love of God in Christ., we know all the redeemed are always and forever seen in Jesus and His righteousness. Because He lives., we live. Because He is worthy., we are worthy. Not because of anything good that we have done., but because of His love where with He loved us and called us.

does it matter now that he did his part what we do? does that define anything?

romans chapter 6 " What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ( john 8:31-35) ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."

Ephesians 5 " Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.


3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."



is this not part of the doctrine taught in scripture? or does grace nullify it all?

 

[followjesus]

Jesus states those as fact. You want to make Jesus contradict himself

You explain why he told the woman by her faith she can have eternal life as rivers of living water continually flowing without end, and letting her go home believing that if it was not true.

The people in john 6 the same

Remember,. They did not have the Bible you have, they had to take him at his word.

Your the one with issues, You can not resolve contradictions.

what issues have you set upon me friend? i believe Jesus, i dont have to disagree with paul Jesus John peter james Moses or anyone in scripture. the thing is you have no answer to why Jesus teaches this

matthew 7:21 " Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

or because Jesus teaches this

matt 6: 14-15 " For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."


there is so much that you cannot accept, but it is not your b=debate with me, its the fact that you have to see Jesus teachings and say, " that doesnt apply" or " the cross changed it" yet after the cross Jesus says

matthew 28 " And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."


whatsoever he commanded them in the gospel, he sent them to teach the world that never changes anywhere in the bible a person now sharing the same teachings or telling them " Go learn from Jesus and believe His word above the chatter He knows> they are still preaching the same gospel it will never change. Jesus words are in the foreknowledge that He was going to die for our sins, His words matter most. you guys try hard to label someone who simply believes what the bible says, somehow a " self works for salvationist" the thing is though, the bible teaches us to repent of sin, and learn and keep Jesus words. id rather go with what is clearly in the bible, thats really why im in a bible discussion forum.

not to be judged having issues i have a judge and I know Who it is, thats why i live my life with all i have according to His word, hes the judge and jury for me at least, my Lord, my savior, my teacher, my friend, my keeper, my strength, my shepherd, the one i trust with my salvation, the One i will never omit or disbelieve. or fail to trust in His words. why do i think that? because its what Jesus said

john 8:51Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

john 12 48-50, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


when a person will not accept Jesus words as valid doctrine, its not Gods Word they are preaching. Jesus is the One God sent with His eternal words of life for mankind, he is the One mediator between God, and mankind it is His blood that was spilled, his pain that was endured, His tears that were shed, his honor that was laid down in humility, the insults fell on Him, and yes no matter what any modern Gog doctrine tells people it is Jesus Words that all come together everything Jesus is salvation. we dont get His blood without accepting His words, we cant receive His spirit and reject His words. and he actually teaches those who believe in Him, to repent and obey Him, so if Jesus was teaching salvation by works as you guys seems to think, ill trust in Him because He is the One who gave His life for mine, He is the One my alliegance will beloing to always and forever for better or worse. and Honestly every christian should feel that way.