Paul Did Write Hebrews

4enlightment · Nov 9, 2013

LT said:

Habiru or Apiru or ˁpr.w (Egyptian) was the name given by various Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian, Hittite, Mitanni, and Ugaritic sources (dated, roughly, between1800 BC and 1100 BC) to a group of people living as nomadic invaders in areas of the Fertile Crescent from Northeastern Mesopotamia and Iran to the borders of Egypt inCanaan.[SUP][1][/SUP] Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, outlaws, raiders, mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc. Habiru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4enlightment · Nov 9, 2013

Epistle to the Hebrews, or “Letter to the Hebrews” is the traditional name of a text that the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament simply called “To the Hebrews” (ΠΡΟΣ ΕΒΡΑΙΟΥΣ).[SUP][1][/SUP]
Scholars of Greek consider its writing to be more polished and eloquent than any other book of the New Testament. Since the earliest days of the Church, the authorship and canonicity have been debated. Presumably once known and respected by the epistle's readers, the author became unknown and today is often described as unknowable. The book has earned the reputation of being a "masterpiece".[SUP][2][/SUP] It also has been described as an "intricate" New Testament book.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Scholars believe Hebrews was written for a mixed audience of Jewish and Gentile Christians who lived in Rome or perhaps Jerusalem.[SUP][2][/SUP] Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution. The central theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the Person of Christ and his role asmediator between God and humanity. The writer of the Letter to the Hebrews was committed to the spiritual well-being of its recipients. Epistle to the Hebrews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tintin · Nov 9, 2013

4enlightment said:

The Bible is composed of assumptions, not facts? If the Living Word can't be trusted to be solid Absolute Truth, then who can we trust? Also, Revelation is most definitely the last book. John is mentioned by Paul in one of his letters but lived a long life and was a very old man (about 90 years old) by the time he wrote Revelation.

Enow · Nov 9, 2013

iamsoandso said:

Protestant has cited church fathers and by the link you had given... yes, I am referring to them as dubious as I quote one from the link.

Have you read everything that guy wrote?

Irenaeus of Lyon: Heresy fighter or major heretic? - National Church History & End Prophecy | Examiner.com

At any rate... this proves that we should prove all things by the scripture with Jesus Christ as our Guide since He is the Good Shepherd.

iamsoandso · Nov 10, 2013

Enow said:

yes, in a thread here on c.c. "i need help with this math problem" we used his works extensively ,there is a error as to the date of birth and death of a few of these men mentioned (what century they lived in) here are a few links that give this information,,, Hippolytus of Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,, Irenaeus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,, Gaius of Rome. ,,, Eusebius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,,, 4th century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,,,so Eusebius is the only of these men alive in 4th cen.(340ad),,the others are 1st and 2dn cen. gaius/caius of Rome was declaired was declared "heratic" for his views of several books not being inspired and other positions(so should be excluded as to his opinion),,,,,as i say though past the formation of r.c.c. 4th cen. i proceed with caution with the many letters(though i find some who seemed earnest),,,,and also there are letters from other authors even before the forth cen. that "throw flags up to me as not scriptural",,,it was a process of years of reading just about all of these letters that drew me to think "well,what he said matches with the new testament",,,,some i do not think agree with the scriptures/new testament.,,,

some of the letters are short,some are kind of long "against heresies 5 books,is pretty long but very fascinating" the churches had a bunch of letters in their possession,we know the ones they chose to be included as new testament cannon. the other letters are good historical documents,they record the martyrdom of church after church. and they are writing back and forth to each other about who took over what church after the leaders in that church died(not all of then some though).

any one i think who has read the whole bible would recognize which of these letters don't agree with scripture. but at the same time they would also recognize the ones writing back and forth who seemed to be saying the same thing as the new testament. there had to be a decision as to which ones went into the cannon of the new testament,but at the time they made this decision there were a bunch more letters in the possession of the churches. so what do we do with the others?,they were all kept together and referred to eventually as "church fathers letters",,,be careful though if you do dig through them you are correct to "rightly divide the word of truth",,,,you'll see which are valuable to Christians and which ones are not,,,,

iamsoandso · Nov 10, 2013

something else i might add that you ask "have you read everything this guy wrote",,,in the link you provided it takes you to writings by john h. ogwyn. ,,,who died in 2005. "living church of god" an off branch of "worldwide church of god/Hebert w. Armstrong" ,,,in the link if you notice it provides links to information provided by,,(cogwriters)="church of god writers",,,

if you click on the links on the page you provided (valentinus and marcion,,,look close at when they were alive) and also the correct dates i provided in post 25 for the dates those men were alive. now in the beginning of the link from the same page you provided "valentinus",,here is the link from the page you provided. Valentinus: The Gnostic Trinitarian Heretic ,,,now at the beginning of the page notice their careful wording in the first sentence under "who was valentinus",,,their statement is "what is now known as the roman catholic church"

that is we know from history,,, Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,,that the roman empire became tolerant to Christianity in 313ad and then declared by verdict a christian nation in 380ad,,,,so 313ad-380ad is when the offical "roman catholic church" was established.

now look at the dates of every man i have provided and notice they all lived and had died before the formation of the "roman catholic church",,,,(except for Eusebius) who lived until 340ad,,,so you see it is imposable any of the others could have been "roman catholic" they were dead before it was formed.

now this is the very key to the coining of the phrase "fourth century" that is if you go from post #1 of this thread to the last post,,,,(notice how many people have reproduced the same error to ,hippolytus,Irenaeus,polycarpus ect. and stated they lived in the fourth century),,,i use firefox so i just click the top left tab and then "find" and type in 4th century or fourth century ect. every time i hit enter it goes to it in the text. but on i.e you "search this page",,,,

now this error is reproduced over and over in your post "click and drag magic",,,not thoroughly rechecking another's research before including it with their own ect.ect. but it has become an error reproduced many times over on the www,,it's origin is from different denominations deliberate attempt to cause many to not trust certain letters of early church members,that is not finding ground to stand on they tied them to the "fourth century because they knew most(unless catholic) would not consider any letter that may have come from r.c.c.",,,,,,but if you dissect the information i gave to you regarding the dates the men i mentioned were alive you will find they lived before the formation of the roman catholic church of the roman empire,,,,,,

Kerry · Nov 10, 2013

Hey, guess what, I know who wrote Hebrews. Are you ready, wait for it, its about to come. For the low low price of 9.99. Just kidding. The Holy Spirit wrote it through a human being that was probably Paul.

iamsoandso · Nov 10, 2013

Kerry said:

lol,your trying to get me to enter the "pin number thats equal to my name in my forehead and buy something",,,,i never used the debit card's do you take cash?,,,lol

nathan3 · Nov 10, 2013

Paul most likely did write Hebrews .

Kerry · Nov 10, 2013

iamsoandso said:

I take all thats given to me . LOL.

iamsoandso · Nov 10, 2013

nathan3 said:

hard to pinpoint in 2nd thess. 3;17 that his salutation with his own hand which is the token in every epistle;so i write,,,,so he said in every letter he wrote he wrote his salutation,,,,but it's not in Hebrews,,,i think well find out in heaven,,,,

4enlightment · Nov 10, 2013

Tintin said:

You can't trust men to compose the Bible but when the Holy Spirit comes in, He will do the work of the elders. Revelations has came first from John, to then given to Paul, and probably written down on paper later on.

The New Testament offers more instruction regarding elders than on many other important church subjects such as the Lord's Supper, the Lord's Day, baptism or spiritual gifts,[SUP][6][/SUP] and their duties are laid out in several places. In the majority of the references, the word for elders is plural and word for church is singular,[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] suggesting that the pattern in the early church was for a plurality of elders in each local church.[SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP] These were to be shepherds to their flock, setting an example[SUP][1Pet 5:1-3][/SUP] - just like shepherds, they were to feed their flock[SUP][Acts 20:28][/SUP], to work hard among them and to reprove where necessary[SUP][1Thes 5:12-13][/SUP] and to care for the spiritual and physical needs of church members.[SUP][Jas 5][/SUP] Elders are considered rulers over their flocks[SUP][1Tim 5:17][/SUP][SUP][1Thes 5:12][/SUP] and their judgement to be submitted to,[SUP][Heb 13:17][/SUP] not so that they can be "lords over God's heritage,"[SUP][1Pet 5:3][/SUP] but because they are to give account to God for the spiritual character of their church.[SUP][Heb 13:17][/SUP]
Elders must to be able to teach and preach sound doctrine and rebuke those who are teaching error, so that false teaching doesn't creep into the church.[SUP][1Tim 5:17][/SUP][SUP][Tit 1:9-13][/SUP] To this end, they are also to train and appoint others.[SUP][Acts 14:23][/SUP][SUP][1Tim 4:14][/SUP][SUP][Tit 1:5][/SUP] Above all, the elder is to serve with humility, remembering that their position is a picture of Christ as the chief shepherd.[SUP][1Pet 5:4]

[/SUP]Elder (Christianity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

p_rehbein · Nov 10, 2013

LT said:

Were not Jesus and John the Baptist of the same blood line? Now, we can argue about 1/2 this 'n' that, but were they not of the same blood line? Wasn't that kinda important to establish WHO Jesus is?

(aw, not I gotta do more reading.......sigh)

p_rehbein · Nov 10, 2013

Oh, forgot to say.............as to who wrote Hebrews........

............ it's a mystery.

Tintin · Nov 10, 2013

4enlightment said:

Probably? Are you sure about anything?

Enow · Nov 10, 2013

iamsoandso said:

That was why I had said to question & prove everything. Just because someone is called one of the church fathers does not give them a free pass as if they can never do wrong by us in their teachings. We are called to prove everything any preacher says from the pulpit too by the scripture to correct him if he goes astray or makes an error or needed to clarify something so it is not taken the wrong way by the congregation. We should have the same care for each member of the body.

If Paul had to correct Peter... then all christian writings are to be discerned with His help as Jesus is our reliable Good Shepherd through the Holy Spirit within us & no one else.

1 John 2:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26[SUP] [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. [SUP]28 [/SUP]And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

4enlightment · Nov 10, 2013

Tintin said:

Well anything could be possible. Like for an instance, the book of Revelations (Apocalypse) could have been written earlier, and someone had re-written the book years later for others to read. They didn't had Xerox copiers back them. And so carbon dating the book for the time period of its original writer will not make any sense to do. Copying a book in those times were had taken a long process. Now we all can read and write.

Enow · Nov 10, 2013

I am sure of this promise from the Lord as I am trusting Him as my Good Shepherd to do it.

2 Timothy 4:18[SUP] [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

CRC · Nov 10, 2013

PAUL is best known as the apostle “to the nations.” But was his ministry confined to the non-Jews? Not at all! Just before Paul was baptized and commissioned for his work, the Lord Jesus said to Ananias: “This man [Paul] is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.” (Acts 9:15; Gal. 2:8, 9) The writing of the book of Hebrews was truly in line with Paul’s commission to bear the name of Jesus to the sons of Israel.
[SUP]2[/SUP] However, some critics doubt Paul’s writership of Hebrews. One objection is that Paul’s name does not appear in the letter. But this is really no obstacle, as many other canonical books fail to name the writer, who is often identified by internal evidence. Moreover, some feel that Paul may have deliberately omitted his name in writing to the Hebrew Christians in Judea, since his name had been made an object of hatred by the Jews there. (Acts 21:28) Neither is the change of style from his other epistles any real objection to Paul’s writership. Whether addressing pagans, Jews, or Christians, Paul always showed his ability to “become all things to people of all sorts.” Here his reasoning is presented to Jews as from a Jew, arguments that they could fully understand and appreciate.—1 Cor. 9:22.
[SUP]3[/SUP] The internal evidence of the book is all in support of Paul’s writership. The writer was in Italy and was associated with Timothy. These facts fit Paul. (Heb. 13:23, 24) Furthermore, the doctrine is typical of Paul, though the arguments are presented from a Jewish viewpoint, designed to appeal to the strictly Hebrew congregation to which the letter was addressed. On this point Clarke’s Commentary, Volume 6, page 681, says concerning Hebrews: “That it was written to Jews, naturally such, the whole structure of the epistle proves. Had it been written to the Gentiles, not one in ten thousand of them could have comprehended the argument, because unacquainted with the Jewish system; the knowledge of which the writer of this epistle everywhere supposes.” This helps to account for the difference of style when compared with Paul’s other letters.
[SUP]4[/SUP] The discovery in about 1930 of the Chester Beatty Papyrus No. 2 (P[SUP]46[/SUP]) has provided further evidence of Paul’s writership. Commenting on this papyrus codex, which was written only about a century and a half after Paul’s death, the eminent British textual critic Sir Frederic Kenyon said: “It is noticeable that Hebrews is placed immediately after Romans (an almost unprecedented position), which shows that at the early date when this manuscript was written no doubt was felt as to its Pauline authorship.” On this same question, McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states pointedly: “There is no substantial evidence, external or internal, in favor of any claimant to the authorship of this epistle except Paul.”

Enow · Nov 10, 2013

I was going to say that Paul used salute alot whereas none others did, but I was wrong.

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: salute

John mentioned it once in his third letter and Peter once in his first letter, but it should be telltaling that Peter nor John said salute in all their letters, and yet Timothy was a well known travelling companion of Paul. Seems salute, Paul being in prison in Rome, & having Timothy is a safe bet that Paul had written the Book of Hebrews.

Paul Did Write Hebrews

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