Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,131
29,444
113
Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of יהוה, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are, yet was without sin."

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Matthew 19:17-22, "And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (See also Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?” יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go,c sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions."

Cant hold on to worldliness.
It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. <= a good reason why Jesus put an end to temple worship.

From Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood
up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”


6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and
addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the
Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart,
showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not
discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to
test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able
to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. <= a good reason why Jesus put an end to temple worship.

From Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood
up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”


6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and
addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the
Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart,
showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not
discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to
test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able
to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
The verse you replied to were explaing how Yahshua is the High Priest, and Yahshua Himself saying to keep the Commandments...So im not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, still I will explain a bit

Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of יהוה, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are, yet was without sin."

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Matthew 19:17-22, "And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” (See also Luk 10:28, Joh 12:50, Rev 22:14) He said to Him, “Which?” And יהושע said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ ” The young man said to Him, “All these I have watched over from my youth, what do I still lack?” יהושע said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go,c sell what you have and give to the poor, and you shall haved treasure in heaven. And come, follow Me.” And when the young man heard the word, he went away sad, because he had many possessions."

Concerning Acts 15, the entire passage is important and alternate manuscripts read differently...

Acts 15:19-21,29 “19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles (new converts) who are turning to YHWH, 20, but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood. 21, For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath. 29, that you abstain from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring. If you keep yourselves from these, you shall do well. Be strong!”

if the new converts go to service...they will learn more...can't expect a new convert to know everything and do everything that they have never even heard...

also there is this...

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


I think people conflate Acts 15 and Paul, writers who lived in a time when the temple service was obselete because the High Priest was in the heavens, so they are telling people not to follow the obselte temple serve, which one would be circumcised by temple priests and one would do sacrifices in the temple.... After Yahshua ascended again the temple ervice was obselete, so they are trying to explain that to everyone...

Imagine trying to go to all the churches and tell them they are all doing it wrong... well what they were facing was much more than that...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,131
29,444
113
if the new converts go to service...they will learn more...can't expect a new convert to know everything and do everything that they have never even heard...
Are you suggesting that the 613 be kept?

So im not sure if you are agreeing with me or not
If the answer is yes to the above question, I most certainly do not agree.

Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles
a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?


By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one
obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
You isolate a single verse in a discussion and ignore their ruling...

Acts 15
9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.

13When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me.

14Simon a has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles.

15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16“ ‘After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,

17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’ b —

18things known from long ago.

19It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath
.”

Are you suggesting that the 613 be kept?


If the answer is yes to the above question, I most certainly do not agree.

Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles
a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?


By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one
obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
because Lawlessness is the reason love grows cold.

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

“iniquity” is word #G458 ἀνομία anomia (a-no-miy'-a) n.,
1. illegality, i.e. violation of law., 2. (genitive case) wickedness., [from G459], KJV: iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness, Root(s): G459

“iniquity” #G458 ἀνομία, ἀνομίας, ἡ (ἄνομος);
1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it. 2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

“iniquity” is word #G458 - anomia, lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, si
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
New converts were told

Acts
19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath
.”

"abstain from food polluted by idols," yet Paul says

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, “However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.”

he said this after the Acts 15 ruling, it no wonder they had these debates and rulings.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,715
596
113
Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This
love ----there are 4 kinds ---but only one is the Love God speaks of here ----and this love only comes by way of Having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ------it is Agape and is a fruit of the Spirit -----


Galatians 5:22-23 Amp B

22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.


Matthew 22
Context
The Greatest Commandment
…36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”
37 Jesus declared, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Greek word for Love in Matthew 22

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ" (1 Jn 4:9,10), i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power. 25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē).

With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction).

True agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,17 for example convey how loving ("preferring," 25 /agapáō) is Christ living His life through the believer.

I say --------Agape never fails ----Agape Loves the unlovely -----God's Agape has no Conditions -----it is an unconditional love ------

So Eros and Philia ----doesn't cut the love mustard for Matthew 22 ----Love God -----is Agape -----

And Really how many Christians ----Agape God with all their heart --soul --mind and strength -----all the time -----anyone who says they do is lying in my view
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
well you didnt cite anyother reason except something said in a debate, that the ruling was different than that verse. you did post a part of the passage, but you did not post the ruling they decided on. That is deceptive or maybe you have never read the ruling and didnt know what it said, in that case it would not be deceptive, but still incorrect.

The post I replied to is here:

Are you suggesting that the 613 be kept?


If the answer is yes to the above question, I most certainly do not agree.

Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles
a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?


By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one
obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
where is the ruling they made? I had to post it

New converts were told

Acts
19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath
.”

"abstain from food polluted by idols," yet Paul says

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, “However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.”

he said this after the Acts 15 ruling, it no wonder they had these debates and rulings.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
love ----there are 4 kinds ---but only one is the Love God speaks of here ----and this love only comes by way of Having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ------it is Agape and is a fruit of the Spirit -----


Galatians 5:22-23 Amp B

22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.


Matthew 22
Context
The Greatest Commandment
…36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”
37 Jesus declared, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

Greek word for Love in Matthew 22

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ" (1 Jn 4:9,10), i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power. 25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē).

With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction).

True agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,17 for example convey how loving ("preferring," 25 /agapáō) is Christ living His life through the believer.

I say --------Agape never fails ----Agape Loves the unlovely -----God's Agape has no Conditions -----it is an unconditional love ------

So Eros and Philia ----doesn't cut the love mustard for Matthew 22 ----Love God -----is Agape -----

And Really how many Christians ----Agape God with all their heart --soul --mind and strength -----all the time -----anyone who says they do is lying in my view
You know them by their fruits, and YHWH is the Supreme Judge, Yahshua will devide the sheep and goats... Love grows cold because of Lawlessness, not because people seek to follow His Law with a changed heart

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

“iniquity” is word #G458 ἀνομία anomia (a-no-miy'-a) n.,
1. illegality, i.e. violation of law., 2. (genitive case) wickedness., [from G459], KJV: iniquity, X transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness, Root(s): G459

“iniquity” #G458 ἀνομία, ἀνομίας, ἡ (ἄνομος);
1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it. 2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

“iniquity” is word #G458 - anomia, lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

why does love grow cold according to Yahshua?

Also you still never ansewered all my replies to your post, you keep ignoring everything I say and posting back at me, so im not going to take the time top read through every word of your if you will not do the same for me

https://christianchat.com/threads/p...-of-the-ministry-of-death.212247/post-5135481
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
Ya ----it seems to be a

View attachment 255016 ---of this person ---doesn't like the truth ----:LOL:
quote where I lied? She isolated a single verse of Acts 15 and ignoed the ruling they made.

Are you suggesting that the 613 be kept?


If the answer is yes to the above question, I most certainly do not agree.

Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles
a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?


By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one
obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

New converts were told

Acts
19“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
21For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath
.”

"abstain from food polluted by idols," yet Paul says

1 Corinthians 8:7-8, “However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.”

he said this after the Acts 15 ruling, it no wonder they had these debates and rulings.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
Can anyone tell me according to Jesus/Yahshua why does love grow cold? Or just accuse and slander me?
 

613

New member
Aug 17, 2023
27
6
3
I'll tell you why we wouldn't want to: Exactly because we don't need to. Why would anyone want to keep 613 commands they don't need to, and could never keep? Do you think God is impressed if we want to keep 613 commands that He has replaced anyway?
The Law goes away, explain please, blessings
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
Sounds like you have a good heart, much respect. It nice to hear people that want to do what He wants.
the way I think is like, no matter how many times I stumble I want to always grab hold of His hand and walk the path.

Proverbs 6:23, "For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And reproofs of discipline a way of life."
Much of why I desire to know more specifically about the LAW, because, I know in Christ Yeshua, I have a Much Better Covenant. But, it is by Understanding the Old Covenant that helps me Maximize the knowledge God desires for us to have.

One good example:

Look at the 3rd Chapter of Acts. Peter and John, Disciples and now Apostle of Jesus, were going to the TEMPLE to Pray. They still went where the Torah was read and discussed but connected it to Jesus. They had the kind of Knowledge that we all should have. We won't have first hand experience with Jesus, but, we know from reading how it benefited the Apostles to know both the LAW and GRACE. We know it would benefit us also.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,715
596
113
quote where I lied? S
You lied here POST 146
SpeakTruth101 said:
when I say edit, you cut parts of my post out and ignore what I said then continue to claim im wrong.

That is a big fat lie ---I didn't quote one line from your post ---I wrote my own post ---all I wrote came from me ---there is not one line of your post in what I posted ---PERIOD---you need to stop lying and offer an apology for accusing me of editing your words -----which I did not -----
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
Much of why I desire to know more specifically about the LAW, because, I know in Christ Yeshua, I have a Much Better Covenant. But, it is by Understanding the Old Covenant that helps me Maximize the knowledge God desires for us to have.

One good example:

Look at the 3rd Chapter of Acts. Peter and John, Disciples and now Apostle of Jesus, were going to the TEMPLE to Pray. They still went where the Torah was read and discussed but connected it to Jesus. They had the kind of Knowledge that we all should have. We won't have first hand experience with Jesus, but, we know from reading how it benefited the Apostles to know both the LAW and GRACE. We know it would benefit us also.
Very good points, I have similar views myself. I try to establish all doctrines in the mouth of 2 or more witnesses, put everyone who speaks in the name of Yah through His test of a prophet, seek to form my understanding from His word not what I have been told or what I want.

Jude 1:3-4, "Beloved ones, making all haste to write to you concerning our common deliverance, I felt the necessity to write to you urging you to earnestly contend for the belief which was once for all delivered to the set-apart ones. For certain men have slipped in, whose judgment was written about long ago, wicked onesa perverting the favour of our Elohim for indecency, and denying the only Master יהוה and our Master יהושע Messiah. "

Israel had been corrupted by the surrounding nations over and over, from Canna and Moab, to Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. All introducing paganisim, with some Hebrews partaking in their error. There was even a period where they did even know the Law, 2 sctually, they found the book of the Law and dusted it off and read it... Rome really ramped up the persecution after Yahshua and by the year 300AD most that had followed Yahshua doctrine had been killed or run off. But the Ebonites and Nazerites had interesting views and were probably the closest thing post Yahshua's disciples, while I dont agree with everything they were said to believe and some authors from around 300ad clearly did not like them they did seem to be Revelation 14:12 believers, that is the believed in following the Law and faith in Yahshua, for which they were criticised, but Rev 14:12 makes it clear that is proper. Anyway Yahshua was the sent on spoken of in Deut 18:18-19 and we have His words and the words of YHWH, so may we seek and find continually.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
You lied here POST 146
SpeakTruth101 said:
when I say edit, you cut parts of my post out and ignore what I said then continue to claim im wrong.

That is a big fat lie ---I didn't quote one line from your post ---I wrote my own post ---all I wrote came from me ---there is not one line of your post in what I posted ---PERIOD---you need to stop lying and offer an apology for accusing me of editing your words -----which I did not -----
You did it again, see right here

quote.png

You cut out parts of my posts when you quote me.

Also you dont fully address when I talk about Scriptures, hard to have a discussion like that.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
You lied here POST 146
SpeakTruth101 said:
when I say edit, you cut parts of my post out and ignore what I said then continue to claim im wrong.

That is a big fat lie ---I didn't quote one line from your post ---I wrote my own post ---all I wrote came from me ---there is not one line of your post in what I posted ---PERIOD---you need to stop lying and offer an apology for accusing me of editing your words -----which I did not -----
Did it on this one too, and only touched on the first verse I posted and cut everything else out. Hard to have an honest discussion when you do that. I spent time typing that out and put some heart into it too...

Here is a link
https://christianchat.com/threads/p...-of-the-ministry-of-death.212247/post-5135032
quote.png
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,136
5,720
113
And according to Yahshua untill heaven and earth passes those Laws/Commands whatever you want to call them stil stand.

Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”

Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

Has this yet happened? heaven and earth passing away?
yeah you need to let Jesus interpret that

He said this when he was teaching his disciples

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing will change till all is fulfilled he said now after he died and rose he explains that which he told them before

This what Jesus said he meant

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He isn’t saying the law will not change until the world ends , he is saying theblaw cannot change until everything written in it about me is fulfilled

and it was when he rose and soon after ascended to the right hand of God like the prophets said he would

Jesus came to fulfill what was written about him in the law “ thou shalt not “ isn’t something that will ever be fulfilled because it’s not prophetic

In the law are prophecies about Jesus coming and needed to be fulfilled or the Old Testament could NEver be removed from believers so we could hear the lords word

I’ll just end with this for my own part this is not the right word for us

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:7-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is our word

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‭KJV‬‬

Moses word isnt for us because he never mediated a covenant relationship between God and us Jesus did that ….Moses never she’d his blood for our sins , Jesus did that , moses never promised eternal life Jesus did rhat , moses instructed sinners to be put to death and offered no law stating “ if the sinner repents show him mercy “


This isn’t the right word for a Christian Some people refuse to hear it though read carefully through just this scripture if nothing else and take time to consider what Paul’s actually saying and see if you can agree or you would tell Paul he needs to consider some different things Toni veterans what he’s teaching there ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ( I don’t think your believing this is true what he’s sayin go about the laws ordination and mediation )

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. ( there is no written law to give life ) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, ( you and me too ) that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. ( first came the law then the gospel ) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12, 19, 21-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When you come to Jesus he becomes your lord and lawgiver your not bound to Moses because he didn’t save you like he did those he gave the law to

Jesus saved you your bound to his word by his blood not Moses word and animal blood that was only a earthly pattern
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
186
43
yeah you need to let Jesus interpret that

He said this when he was teaching his disciples

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing will change till all is fulfilled he said now after he died and rose he explains that which he told them before

This what Jesus said he meant

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He isn’t saying the law will not change until the world ends , he is saying theblaw cannot change until everything written in it about me is fulfilled

and it was when he rose and soon after ascended to the right hand of God like the prophets said he would

Jesus came to fulfill what was written about him in the law “ thou shalt not “ isn’t something that will ever be fulfilled because it’s not prophetic

In the law are prophecies about Jesus coming and needed to be fulfilled or the Old Testament could NEver be removed from believers so we could hear the lords word
I fully agree with nothing passing from the Law until all that is written about Him is fulfilled as you quoted.

Luke 24:44-49, "And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be filled that were written in the Torah of Mosheh and the Prophets and the Tehillim concerning Me.” Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning at Yerushalayim. “And you are witnesses of these matters. “And see, I am sending the Promise of My Father upon you, but you are to remain in the city of Yerushalayim until you are clothed with power from on high.”

that all have to be filled that were written in the Torah of Mosheh and the Prophets and the Tehillim concerning Me

You are wrong when you say this
He isn’t saying the law will not change until the world ends , he is saying theblaw cannot change until everything written in it about me is fulfilled
because Matthew 5:17-18, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete*1. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.”

He literally says "till the heaven and the earth pass away" and it literally happens:

Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

However I dont even need that to prove my point. We can go back to what you touch on

Luke 24:44-49, "And He said to them, ...that all have to be filled that were written in the Torah of Mosheh and the Prophets and the Tehillim concerning Me..."

is everything fulfilled that was written concerning Him in the

Torah of Mosheh
Genesis 49:10, "“The sceptre shall not turn aside from Yehuḏah, nor an Inscriber from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to Him is the obedience of peoples. "

the Prophets -
Daniyl 7:13-14, “I was looking in the night visions and saw One like the Son of Enosh, coming with the clouds of the heavens! And He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And to Him was given rulership and preciousness and a reign, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His rule is an everlasting rule which shall not pass away, and His reign that which shall not be destroyed.

Tehillim (Psalms)
Psalm 2:1-12, “Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate emptiness? (Mat 4:25-26. See also Dan 2:44, Dan 7:13-28, Hag 2:22, Zec 14:9 and Rev 11:15) The sovereigns of the earth take their stand, And the rulers take counsel together, Against יהוה and against His Messiah, and say, Let us tear apart Their bonds, And throw away Their ropes from us.” He who is sitting in the heavens laughs, יהוה mocks at them. Then He speaks to them in His wrath, And troubles them in His rage, saying, “But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the nations Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel. And now, be wise, O sovereigns; Be instructed, you rulers of the earth. Serve יהוה with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest He be enraged, And you perish in the way, For soon His wrath is to be kindled. Blessed are all those taking refuge in Him.”

Revelation 11:14-16, "The second woe is past, and see, the third woe is coming speedily. And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”