Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

[SpeakTruth101]

Can you say grace? Grace is unmerited favor. Mercy is not receiving what we deserve. Grace is receiving what we don't deserve. Both are unmerited. But God specifically says He deals with His people according to grace. Can you say grace?

Grace is the word it is commonly translated to,
5485. charis
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness

when talking about YHWH and His Judgment, I feel calling it unmerited mercy is the most descriptive and accurate way to say it in short manner. It is mercy one can do nothing to earn.

can you answer the question I have been asking you? Will you give me the same amount of feedback I gave you? Multiple posts on the topic? Or any answer? A discussion thats not 1 sided?

 

[SpeakTruth101]

It would seem that all of us still fall short of those 2 greatest commandments. We need grace. Only the Son obeyed those 2 commandments fully by offering His life as a Sacrifice for sin, to save us in obedience to the Law and His Father.

We are saved by grace through faith in the Son for forgiveness of our sins by what He did to save us.

Agreed, however there is a reason He said that and things similar, because those are the principles or Instructions we are supposed to seek to live by, or "guard".

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Again, more lies.

You started the whole involvement of the usage of the word "destroy" to the discussion.
That is fact... pure and simple.

In Post #276 I questioned you as to why you even brought up the word "destroy"... it wasn't until after that, that I mentioned demons in regard to your continuing obsession with a non-issue.

Regardless, and since you want to stick with your lies, you claim to want to stick to original languages, but continue speaking mostly in English... you only use Hebrew as it suits you. (And I simply ask, why... but you refuse to answer) Please quit being so blatantly dishonest. If you want to stick to original languages, speak only in Aramaic and Greek. (Another site might accommodate that?)

You do not speak, "standing on Scripture"... you thoroughly mock Jesus.

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

Im using a Strongs C.ncordance and Thayers Greek Lexion, that what they say. and if you read Greek at all you will see they have similar but different meanings.

Neither mean to destroy...

G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to tran

G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n.
transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law).
.

Neither mean to destroy...

G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v.
1. to transfer

G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n.
transposition,..

Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

 

[evyaniy]

Romans 3 in part from HNV version with some edits.

9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written,
“There is no one righteous;
no, not one.
11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who seeks after EL(God, Theos).
12 They have all turned away.
They have together become unprofitable.
There is no one who does good,
no, not so much as one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb.
With their tongues they have used deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood.
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways.
17 The way of peace, they haven’t known.”
18 “There is no fear of EL(God, Theos) before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of EL(God, Theos). 20 Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of EL(God, Theos) has been revealed, being testified by the Torah and the Prophets;
22 even the righteousness of EL(God, Theos) through faith in Yeshua the Messiah to all and on all those who believe.

 

[Cameron143]

Grace is the word it is commonly translated to,
5485. charis
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness

when talking about YHWH and His Judgment, I feel calling it unmerited mercy is the most descriptive and accurate way to say it in short manner. It is mercy one can do nothing to earn.

can you answer the question I have been asking you? Will you give me the same amount of feedback I gave you? Multiple posts on the topic? Or any answer? A discussion thats not 1 sided?

You have yet to admit that God deals with His people according to grace. Grace is not simply mercy. And grace supercedes the law. So any discussion of the law without first recognizing grace will lead to a misunderstanding of the law. Are you willing to acknowledge that God deals with His people according to grace?

 

[evyaniy]

Agreed, however there is a reason He said that and things similar, because those are the principles or Instructions we are supposed to seek to live by, or "guard".

Actually, He was answering a specific question. He spoke the truth. He was also focused on obeying those very 2 greatest commandments in His impending crucifixion and death. He was not telling us we were capable of obeying those commandments. Only He is able to do that and it required Him to offer His life to save us.

 

[evyaniy]

His righteousness is imputed to believers through faith.

 

[Ted01]

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."







Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Okay.
So, you reply to a simple request by launching into things 'other".
You don't want to repent of your false accusations even when kindly asked.
I get that... I truly do.

You think by crafty language and quoting Scripture that you redeem yourself?

I hope that you know that you're on a Christian site.
Many/most here have the Spirit of God in them, discerning between your lies and the Truth.
And I am believing in God that all who see your nonsense already know.
Christ in them is way stronger than you.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

However they didnt say that in their post, you asked them and they then said it.



The letter "J" is only 400 years old, nobody ever called Him Jesus when He came.

Proverbs 30:4, “Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound up the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? And what is the Name of His Son? Tell me, if you know!”​

Isayah 42:8, “I am יהוה, that is My Name, and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols."


2424. Iésous Strong's Concordance

​

Iésous: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.

Original Word: Ἰησοῦς, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Iésous
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ay-sooce')
Definition: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr
Usage: Jesus; the Greek form of Joshua; Jesus, son of Eliezer; Jesus, surnamed Justus.
​

HELPS Word-studies
2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").
"Jesus Christ" is properly "Jesus the Christ." "Jesus" (2424 /Iēsoús) is His human name, as the incarnate, eternal Son of God (Mt 1:21,25, see also Lk 1:31) – the Christ, the divine Messiah (the second Person of the holy Trinity).
[Christ (His title) means "the Anointed One" (the eternal pre-incarnate, Logos, Jn 1:1-18).]


3091. Yehoshua

Strong's Concordance​

Yehoshua: "the LORD is salvation," Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr.

Original Word: יְהוֹשׁוּעַ
Part of Speech: proper name, masculine; proper name, of a location; proper name
Transliteration: Yehoshua
Phonetic Spelling: (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
Definition: "the LORD is salvation",​

יהוה YHWH​

יהושוע Yahushua​

יּהוֹשׁׁע Yehoshua​

KJV
Psalms 110:1, "A Psalm of David. The LORD (H#3068) said unto my Lord (#H113), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. "

Psalms 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” "



Someone else said He rose because being sinless not me, He rose because YHWH rose Him up and it was prophesied to happen and He fulfilled it, granting humans a chance at unmerited mercy.





Yes His Law is a part of His Word, realizing that is not wrong.



youre putting words in my mouth and beaing up the straw man.

I need no other evidence to guard His Instruction than this:

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

that is enough for me.

It not a bad thing, I also know that

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

a you just seem to desire to argue I’m going to move on God bless you

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Again, more lies.

You started the whole involvement of the usage of the word "destroy" to the discussion.
That is fact... pure and simple.

In Post #276 I questioned you as to why you even brought up the word "destroy"... it wasn't until after that, that I mentioned demons in regard to your continuing obsession with a non-issue.

Regardless, and since you want to stick with your lies, you claim to want to stick to original languages, but continue speaking mostly in English... you only use Hebrew as it suits you. (And I simply ask, why... but you refuse to answer) Please quit being so blatantly dishonest. If you want to stick to original languages, speak only in Aramaic and Greek. (Another site might accommodate that?)

You do not speak, "standing on Scripture"... you thoroughly mock Jesus.

It’s a circle no matter what you say it’s just a contention

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your posts are to long if you want to challenge one statement. Please make a more concise post if you expect an answer. Thank you

Naw I’m okay with not worrying about it , I won’t bother you anymore God bless you.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

You have yet to admit that God deals with His people according to grace. Grace is not simply mercy. And grace supercedes the law. So any discussion of the law without first recognizing grace will lead to a misunderstanding of the law. Are you willing to acknowledge that God deals with His people according to grace?

YHWH deals with His people with the rod, unmerited mercy and other ways.

Hebrews 10-12 is a great reading on this topic

Hebrews 10:16-17, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:33-34.

Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. "

Hebrews 12:3-6, "For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him, for whom יהוה loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”

Making claims about "my understanding" has no bearing on what I actually understand because you claim it. Only YHWH knows the heart and mind anyway.

You keep moving the goal posts, and you keep saying "grace is not simply mercy" Words have meaning, I said multiple times now, unmerited mercy, that is different than mercy.

It is a mercy I don't deserve when I look at YHWH and Yahshua, what they taught, how they behave and what they want from me, I know I fall short, I know I need unmerited mercy. At the same time that does not mean I don;t want to behave in a manner He approves of. Just the oppisite, because I am offered unmerited mercy, I want to in turn live my life for YHWH.

These passages are perfect explanations of what I beleive to be true.

1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”

and I do not want to insult YHWH.

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”

SO are you going to answer my question or keep refusing? A lot of people when it time to have a discussion they go or well I just cant talk to you. I have been very patiently answering your questions over and over, so..

My question to you remains, can you answer it?

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

What is the meaning of iniquity and why does love grow cold?

 

[evyaniy]

not wanting to enter a debate but the questions need answers.

Naw I’m okay with not worrying about it , I won’t bother you anymore God bless you.

no bother. read your posts often. get lots of good daily Scripture reading through what you post.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Actually, He was answering a specific question. He spoke the truth. He was also focused on obeying those very 2 greatest commandments in His impending crucifixion and death. He was not telling us we were capable of obeying those commandments. Only He is able to do that and it required Him to offer His life to save us.

we wont be 100% perfect but we can walk in love, it is not impossible.

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Okay.
So, you reply to a simple request by launching into things 'other".
You don't want to repent of your false accusations even when kindly asked.
I get that... I truly do.

You think by crafty language and quoting Scripture that you redeem yourself?

I hope that you know that you're on a Christian site.
Many/most here have the Spirit of God in them, discerning between your lies and the Truth.
And I am believing in God that all who see your nonsense already know.
Christ in them is way stronger than you.

you are acting crazy, you are putting things on me I never even came close to.

your nonsense does not impress me.

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

 

[SpeakTruth101]

a you just seem to desire to argue I’m going to move on God bless you

I reply to your posts over and over and you dont reply to mine. This is a Bible Discussion Forum, it is supposed to be a back and forth conversation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

not wanting to enter a debate but the questions need answers.

no bother. read your posts often. get lots of good daily Scripture reading through what you post.

Yes no worries I’m pretty unorganized but at my age it’s hard to re begin and change how I speak I’ve always struggles with very short words saying anything

abut I don’t claim to be anymore than a guy on a forum trying to share and learn at the same time some folks don’t want to read more than a paragraph I respect that it’s just not what I usually can offer

 

[Cameron143]

YHWH deals with His people with the rod, unmerited mercy and other ways.

Hebrews 10-12 is a great reading on this topic

Hebrews 10:16-17, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:33-34.

Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. "

Hebrews 12:3-6, "For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him, for whom יהוה loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”

Making claims about "my understanding" has no bearing on what I actually understand because you claim it. Only YHWH knows the heart and mind anyway.

You keep moving the goal posts, and you keep saying "grace is not simply mercy" Words have meaning, I said multiple times now, unmerited mercy, that is different than mercy.

It is a mercy I don't deserve when I look at YHWH and Yahshua, what they taught, how they behave and what they want from me, I know I fall short, I know I need unmerited mercy. At the same time that does not mean I don;t want to behave in a manner He approves of. Just the oppisite, because I am offered unmerited mercy, I want to in turn live my life for YHWH.

These passages are perfect explanations of what I beleive to be true.

1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”

and I do not want to insult YHWH.

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a slaughter offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Elohim underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of favour? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people.” It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Elohim.”

SO are you going to answer my question or keep refusing? A lot of people when it time to have a discussion they go or well I just cant talk to you. I have been very patiently answering your questions over and over, so..

My question to you remains, can you answer it?

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

What is the meaning of iniquity and why does love grow cold?

I get it. If you admit all is by grace, you will have to rethink and retool your positions on the law. You don't want to do that.
Thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I reply to your posts over and over and you dont reply to mine. This is a Bible Discussion Forum, it is supposed to be a back and forth conversation.

ayes about ten ago I told you this wasn’t fruitful for me I’m old I feel like we’re just going in circles I said basically all I know about the subject all I can do now is leave it for what it is I don’t have any more time to spend on the same circular argument no offense to you in any way I tried to tell you I didn’t want to keep going in the same circles ……I’ve basically quoted the scriptures I could think of off hand all through the thread but you and a couple others I don’t think are actually reading them you just go for a rebuttal of what you think I said about something but I’m actually just trying to show you what Paul said it’s kind of exhausting for me I’m old don’t have a lot of energy left

In sorry no offense circular arguing drains my spirit somethin fierce thanks for the discussion however it was enjoyable while it lasted

 

[Ted01]

you are acting crazy, you are putting things on me I never even came close to.

your nonsense does not impress me.

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

You think so of me, and I think that the veil remains on you.