Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

[SpeakTruth101]

I get it. If you admit all is by grace, you will have to rethink and retool your positions on the law. You don't want to do that.
Thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

I just said you were going to do that, so YHWH does not deal with His people in a corrective manner at times? Writer of Hebrews seems to think so...

Unmerited mercy
Hebrews 10:16-17, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:33-34.

Obedience
Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. "

the rod
Hebrews 12:3-6, "For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him, for whom יהוה loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”

He deals with His people with all of these.

Ohh and I know the answer to the question I had, I wanted to see your view of it because it would help me to understand a little bit about you, you refusal to even speak on Yahshua's words is telling.

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

“iniquity” #G458 ἀνομία, ἀνομίας, ἡ (ἄνομος);
1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it. 2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Ted01]

It’s a circle no matter what you say it’s just a contention

You are right Brother... in the flesh, I contend with circles.
Pray for me.

 

[Gideon300]

2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”

Yet he also says this

Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

And Hebrews clarifies the place of the law even further: "For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." Hebrews 10:1

Paul concurs: "These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:17

Personally, I like to live in the light, not the shadows.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

You think so of me, and I think that the veil remains on you.

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

 

[evyaniy]

Yes no worries I’m pretty unorganized but at my age it’s hard to re begin and change how I speak I’ve always struggles with very short words saying anything

abut I don’t claim to be anymore than a guy on a forum trying to share and learn at the same time some folks don’t want to read more than a paragraph I respect that it’s just not what I usually can offer

The questions you started here were answered in prior posts and threads that you were part of. you have already said you do not think Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer. As seen even in this thread Psalm 119 being the Son's prayer for life because of His obedience to the Law in giving His life to save us explains so many things about Him and the Father and the Law. You really can't understand the purpose of the law without knowing Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer. It explains so much in Scripture as was attempted again in this thread.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

And Hebrews clarifies the place of the law even further: "For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." Hebrews 10:1

Paul concurs: "These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:17

Personally, I like to live in the light, not the shadows.

the shadow is the covenant under the levitical priesthood, the shadow is not:

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Comforter – the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you."

(Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.", He said:

Mat 22:36-40, “Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You think so of me, and I think that the veil remains on you.

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭

“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The promise made before the law was given under the ordination of melchezidek on genesis 14 before the preisthood was changed to the levites when Moses became mediator

 

[evyaniy]

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Yes, and His commandment is to love one another as He loves us. That is a pretty tall order which none of us are even capable of it would appear. After all, He offered His life to save His enemies.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The questions you started here were answered in prior posts and threads that you were part of. you have already said you do not think Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer. As seen even in this thread Psalm 119 being the Son's prayer for life because of His obedience to the Law in giving His life to save us explains so many things about Him and the Father and the Law. You really can't understand the purpose of the law without knowing Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer. It explains so much in Scripture as was attempted again in this thread.

yea I did t see any answers mostly but I have pretty tired eyes … I’m gonna drop this thread though

 

[Cameron143]

I just said you were going to do that, so YHWH does not deal with His people in a corrective manner at times? Writer of Hebrews seems to think so...

Unmerited mercy
Hebrews 10:16-17, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:33-34.

Obedience
Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. "

the rod
Hebrews 12:3-6, "For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him, for whom יהוה loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”

He deals with His people with all of these.

Ohh and I know the answer to the question I had, I wanted to see your view of it because it would help me to understand a little bit about you, you refusal to even speak on Yahshua's words is telling.

Matt 24:12, “And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold.”

“iniquity” #G458 ἀνομία, ἀνομίας, ἡ (ἄνομος);
1. properly, the condition of one without law — either because ignorant of it, or because violating it. 2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

All of these are means of grace. They do not bring condemnation. Their purpose is restoration.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

ayes about ten ago I told you this wasn’t fruitful for me I’m old I feel like we’re just going in circles I said basically all I know about the subject all I can do now is leave it for what it is I don’t have any more time to spend on the same circular argument no offense to you in any way I tried to tell you I didn’t want to keep going in the same circles ……I’ve basically quoted the scriptures I could think of off hand all through the thread but you and a couple others I don’t think are actually reading them you just go for a rebuttal of what you think I said about something but I’m actually just trying to show you what Paul said it’s kind of exhausting for me I’m old don’t have a lot of energy left

In sorry no offense circular arguing drains my spirit somethin fierce thanks for the discussion however it was enjoyable while it lasted

Thats ok. I did read them and broke them up into sections to reply, I think, that because I have different views than you, it seems like im not answering maybe?

In any case I do think I replied much more to what you said than I did, but I just say that because a discussion is more fruitful if we both answer each other.

The most imporant thing is we both believe Yahshua/Jesus is the One to follow and YHWH Salvation, we may word things differently but I think we both believe He is the One to "hear and obey" Duet 18:18-19 Acts 3:19-23

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Be well.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You are right Brother... in the flesh, I contend with circles.
Pray for me.

Ehh I just noticed myself going in circles with them lol and thought I should mention it haha we both need prayer brother but it’s better to just learn together to pass the test next time

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thats ok. I did read them and broke them up into sections to reply, I think, that because I have different views than you, it seems like im not answering maybe?

In any case I do think I replied much more to what you said than I did, but I just say that because a discussion is more fruitful if we both answer each other.

The most imporant thing is we both believe Yahshua/Jesus is the One to follow and YHWH Salvation, we may word things differently but I think we both believe He is the One to "hear and obey" Duet 18:18-19 Acts 3:19-23

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Be well.

a yeah my eyes are tired from seeing the screen too watering so I probably am missing some stuff … forgive me if I’ve trespassed God bless though that’s for sure

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Yes, and His commandment is to love one another as He loves us. That is a pretty tall order which none of us are even capable of it would appear. After all, He offered His life to save His enemies.

I have a more positive attitude on the matter, no matter how many times I stumble I want to still seek His path, ways and Commands rather than tell myself I cant love, in Him I can according to Him

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing...."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hope you all are blessed this evening whether you hold to Moses law or the gospel or both God sure loves us dummies ……(saying that of me lol and including anyone else who isn’t offended )

 

[SpeakTruth101]

All of these are means of grace. They do not bring condemnation. Their purpose is restoration.

Where did I say condemnation? You jjust said that not me.

Unmerited mercy
Hebrews 10:16-17, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,”a and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:33-34.

Obedience
Hebrews 11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. "

the rod
Hebrews 12:3-6, "For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives. You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him, for whom יהוה loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.”

Unmerited mercy - His forgiveness to us


Obedience - our desire to do whatever He wants


the rod - the corrective tool He uses when we dont

 

[SpeakTruth101]

Hope you all are blessed this evening whether you hold to Moses law or the gospel or both God sure loves us dummies ……(saying that of me lol and including anyone else who isn’t offended )

Psalm 57:7-10, "My heart is firm, O Yah, My heart is firm; I sing and praise. Awake, my esteem! Awake, harp and lyre! I awake the dawn. I praise You among the peoples, O יהוה; I sing to You among the nations. For Your loving-commitment is great up to the heavens, And Your truth unto the clouds."

 

[evyaniy]

I have a more positive attitude on the matter, no matter how many times I stumble I want to still seek His path, ways and Commands rather than tell myself I cant love, in Him I can according to Him

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing...."

It's certainly worth trying.

 

[Ted01]

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Quoting Jesus won't save you... believing Him, that He has brought us a New thing... (that supersedes the Old, which you still cling to), might. IDK?

And His commandments are not the Old commandments. Just read and learn. Turn away from your need for old Hebrew things to remain in place... the divorce is final.
I fear that your heart is hardened... and perhaps God hardens it further. I hope not.

I have nothing more to offer you... I apologize for my immaturity in Christ... still, I pray for weakness as I pray for my own.

 

[SpeakTruth101]

a yeah my eyes are tired from seeing the screen too watering so I probably am missing some stuff … forgive me if I’ve trespassed God bless though that’s for sure

No worries, if you have done anything I do not hold it against you and do forgive you. If I have offended I also am sorry and didnt mean to, one thing though is that its always good to dwell on His word!