Pelagius' teachings are the Kool-Aid Supporting Free-Willer Theology

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Do you think the Bible includes every word of the prophecy that Jonah spoke to them? And, do you think God knew what the outcome would be?

If you are an open theist or a person that believes in "process theology", you believe that God DOESN'T know the future in detail, and DOESN'T know the future.

Therefore, you would think that God really does learn things, and does not know the future in detail. You would believe in a different god than me (Is 46:9-10).

Open theists have invaded the ranks of free-willers because, ultimately, the free-willer theology, when applied consistently, yields open theism.

So, here is my response:

1. God sent Jonah to Nineveh to preach repentance to them, in essence.
2. They repented.
3. God knew all along that they would repent, because he is the one who grants repentance (which free-willers deny).
4. He inspired this to be included in the canon as a type of the repentance which would come to Gentiles in the future.
5. Jonah himself was typological of Jesus, therefore this type is full of divine sovereignty.

For those who want to see that God grants repentance (therefore he knew they would repent because he caused it):

God gives faith (Acts 16:14, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, Acts 3:16) and grants repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25).

And, as I quoted before:


Jonah 2:9 9 But I with the voice of thanksgiving will sacrifice to you;
what I have vowed I will pay. Salvation belongs to the Lord!”
(ESV)

Even within the book of Jonah, there is a clear statement that salvation is of the Lord!

Those who are saved have nothing to boast about whatsoever because of this; it is not about human works (Romans 3:20, 27-28, 4:5, 1 Corinthians 1:31, Galatians 2:16). Salvation is God’s work.

How was Jonah typological of Jesus? He went to sleep in the boat, and was awakened by men who were afraid of destruction. He went to a hostile people to preach repentance to them, as Jesus did when he became a man and preached among mankind. He was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, and was as good as dead, just like Jesus was. There are other shadows and types; you can google them...just look up Jonah as a type of Christ.

In the open-theist and free-willer mindset, I am pretty sure they simply deny typology like this, because they realize it would imply that God orchestrates events and that is against their theology.
Yes both the Son of man and Jonas are used as a parable to help us understanding the works of a living sacrifice. It is referred to as the last sign and wonder. Using three days in the belly of hell represented by a whale compared to three days in the hearts of the earth .Again a living sacrifice assisted by he father.. that worked in them both as to the reasoning of both of their suffering. .

Two turnings, one faithful work.

Of a mans own volition they could never turn to repent( comfort themselves) That work is in respect to the comforter the Holy Spirit. he will not share that glory with corrupted flesh and blood (dead)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans3:19-11

Repentance is a work of God turning us first. So that then having life in turn comes from hearing His voice so that we, having no understanding by which we could seek after Him He gives us that understanding. we as new creatures can repent or comfort our own self . He must do the first works . Dead creatures can recreate themselves

Jeremiah 31:18-19 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, (#1) and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that "I was" turned, I repented; (#2) and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,565
774
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Yes both the Son of man and Jonas are used as a parable to help us understanding the works of a living sacrifice. It is referred to as the last sign and wonder. Using three days in the belly of hell represented by a whale compared to three days in the hearts of the earth .Again a living sacrifice assisted by he father.. that worked in them both as to the reasoning of both of their suffering. .

Two turnings, one faithful work.

Of a mans own volition they could never turn to repent( comfort themselves) That work is in respect to the comforter the Holy Spirit. he will not share that glory with corrupted flesh and blood (dead)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans3:19-11

Repentance is a work of God turning us first. So that then having life in turn comes from hearing His voice so that we, having no understanding by which we could seek after Him He gives us that understanding. we as new creatures can repent or comfort our own self . He must do the first works . Dead creatures can recreate themselves

Jeremiah 31:18-19 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, (#1) and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that "I was" turned, I repented; (#2) and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
Regeneration creates a heart of flesh which can repent and exercise faith.

Somehow the free-willer view thinks the unregenerate man can wring his heart of stone until faith and repentance comes from it, and then they receive a heart of flesh from God as a result. This is called decisional regeneration.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Aside from quoting "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God". HOW do people come to faith?

(Asking those who believe in libertarian free will)

Is it the fact that people hear the gospel preached that there is a window of opportunity to believe or what?

I ask because I personally have NEVER EVER been able to "CHOOSE" to believe anything. I cant "choose to believe" the earth is flat.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,665
668
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Realize, folks, that John is an open theist and this set of Scriptures is one that they used to claim God doesn't know the future.

I already replied to him showing that God grants repentance, so, yes, he did know that Nineveh would repent because he was going to grant them the heart of flesh that they needed to repent.

This is where consistent free-willer theology falls apart. Ultimately they translate God into an anthropomorphic, man-like being who doesn't really know the future, nor does he coordinate it.

I really suggest watching out for Jesse Morrell and some of his posse, as well as all kinds of Pelagians that teach this stuff online. Clark Pinnock teaches it in academic circles but the worst are guys like Morrell who take his general theology and popularize it.
This makes God a liar. He said He was going to destroy them in forty days.

I’m a Bible believer not an open theist or whatever.

Never heard of these guys you mentioned.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,391
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God pronounced destruction against Nineveh. They turned from their evil and in turn, God repented of the evil He said He would do unto them and He did it not.
That is exactly what we see in the book of Jonah. One could say God *relented* which would be the same thing. Each time a sinner turns to Christ, God relents and withdraws His wrath. God has not predestined any for Heaven or Hell. And the book of Jonah proves that.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,665
668
113
Realize, folks, that John is an open theist and this set of Scriptures is one that they used to claim God doesn't know the future.

I already replied to him showing that God grants repentance, so, yes, he did know that Nineveh would repent because he was going to grant them the heart of flesh that they needed to repent.

This is where consistent free-willer theology falls apart. Ultimately they translate God into an anthropomorphic, man-like being who doesn't really know the future, nor does he coordinate it.

I really suggest watching out for Jesse Morrell and some of his posse, as well as all kinds of Pelagians that teach this stuff online. Clark Pinnock teaches it in academic circles but the worst are guys like Morrell who take his general theology and popularize it.
Exodus 32
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

God declared He was going to consume Israel and said I will make of thee a great nation, speaking of Moses.

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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668
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That is exactly what we see in the book of Jonah. One could say God *relented* which would be the same thing. Each time a sinner turns to Christ, God relents and withdraws His wrath. God has not predestined any for Heaven or Hell. And the book of Jonah proves that.
Exactly. We were once objects of God’s wrath until we heard the gospel and believed. If we were so called elected from the foundation of the world, then we were never objects of God’s wrath.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
1,489
960
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Texas
Aside from quoting "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God". HOW do people come to faith?

(Asking those who believe in libertarian free will)

Is it the fact that people hear the gospel preached that there is a window of opportunity to believe or what?

I ask because I personally have NEVER EVER been able to "CHOOSE" to believe anything. I cant "choose to believe" the earth is flat.
Because the spirit inhabits his word when preached, and he convicts the hearer, and the hearer becomes broken by the weight of conviction and surrenders or hardens himself and rejects.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Thank you for the responses @Locoponydirtman (interesting name, I like you already!) and brother @John146

I understand where you are coming from.

My reply to this:
Exactly. We were once objects of God’s wrath until we heard the gospel and believed. If we were so called elected from the foundation of the world, then we were never objects of God’s wrath.
is that yes indeed everyone is an object of God's wrath in their unregenerate state. Just because something is predestinated to occur, does not mean it has to have happened in eternity. No one is saved "in eternity" but rather salvation is an experience HERE in time. We get to eternity and we will enjoy it fully, but most definately its something we experience here in time.