Pentecostalism's sketchy origins
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You were not "baptized in the spirit" ..."Holy Spirit"....if you were not baptized in water during that year and we are not ...born again...unless baptized in water..."in Jesus's name, Amen".
We must be ...born again...that includes repentance and water baptism...before the HS can occupy our individual temple.
Wrong...dead wrong.
Has nothing to do with baptism and is a feeble effort. Geesscch!!
That addresses ..born again...not baptism. You could use that to advocate that one need not repent.
John 3:21
King James Version
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice sentence construction..baptism first..Holy Spirit after...?
Has nothing to do with baptism and is a feeble effort. Geesscch!!
That addresses ..born again...not baptism. You could use that to advocate that one need not repent.
John 3:21
King James Version
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Notice sentence construction..baptism first..Holy Spirit after...?
Water Baptism is outward and cannot cleanse or purify anyone.
Repentance is INWARD, in the heart of a man who has received the Call of the Father.
When a person is being Called by the Father to Christ, repentance is party of that Call in which a person responds to and follows.
Thus we have John the Baptist saying: "“I baptize you with water for repentance" = first the natural.
Then the Spiritual = "But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Spiritual Meat for the Mature = Individuals and groups who focus on the outward, such as 'water baptism' are the same ones who attack and deny the INWARD Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Natural vs Spiritual = Religion vs LIFE
Repentance is INWARD, in the heart of a man who has received the Call of the Father.
When a person is being Called by the Father to Christ, repentance is party of that Call in which a person responds to and follows.
Thus we have John the Baptist saying: "“I baptize you with water for repentance" = first the natural.
Then the Spiritual = "But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
Spiritual Meat for the Mature = Individuals and groups who focus on the outward, such as 'water baptism' are the same ones who attack and deny the INWARD Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Natural vs Spiritual = Religion vs LIFE
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Water birth is when we come forth from the womb and are brought into this world.
Jesus made this clear distinction in John 3:1-21
Jesus never said you must be water baptized to be born-again.
To force 'water baptism' upon John 3:1-21 is sin by religion which is 'adding to the word of God'.
Which is what religious people who attack and deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in fact do - to this day.
Spiritual Meat for the Mature: If water baptism could save a soul then Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross.
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep,
through the Blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20-21
Jesus made this clear distinction in John 3:1-21
Jesus never said you must be water baptized to be born-again.
To force 'water baptism' upon John 3:1-21 is sin by religion which is 'adding to the word of God'.
Which is what religious people who attack and deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in fact do - to this day.
Spiritual Meat for the Mature: If water baptism could save a soul then Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross.
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep,
through the Blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20-21
Study ..just these three;
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Are you a Christian? I have never seen a Christian reject God's word....like you are doing.
Please explain.
Well, technically it's not about speaking in tongues but about the questionable lives and practices of Pentecostalism's early founders. I should know, I started the thread. Sorry to be a stickler for details.
And, while I realize we should not paint with a broad brush, nearly every interaction I've had with someone of the Pentecostal following has included the implication that if you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the Spirit.... and I emphatically disagree with that.
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i know all these scriptures and fully embrace them.
There was a reason why water baptism was in place and it cannot save anyone as is clearly shown in scripture.
It is an outward act that we partake in because our LORD Himself took part in for this reason = "to fulfill all righteousness".
So, like wise, we do the same.
But it can never make a soul clean before the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT.
You have it backwards for the HOLY SPIRIT looks for the BLOOD of Christ on the soul - not the outward water bath.
Is not this week the Pesach/Passover whereby Moses was instructed to sacrifice the Lamb and place the Blood on the Doorposts and Lintel.
Did God instruct Moses to baptize in water - NOPE.
We are saved purely by the BLOOD of Christ.
Our Covenant of Cleansing with the FATHER is purely thru the BLOOD of His Son.
We are in a BLOOD Covenant - not a physical water based solution.
Study the Gospel of John and Acts and 1 Corinthians and 1 John.
There was a reason why water baptism was in place and it cannot save anyone as is clearly shown in scripture.
It is an outward act that we partake in because our LORD Himself took part in for this reason = "to fulfill all righteousness".
So, like wise, we do the same.
But it can never make a soul clean before the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT.
You have it backwards for the HOLY SPIRIT looks for the BLOOD of Christ on the soul - not the outward water bath.
Is not this week the Pesach/Passover whereby Moses was instructed to sacrifice the Lamb and place the Blood on the Doorposts and Lintel.
Did God instruct Moses to baptize in water - NOPE.
We are saved purely by the BLOOD of Christ.
Our Covenant of Cleansing with the FATHER is purely thru the BLOOD of His Son.
We are in a BLOOD Covenant - not a physical water based solution.
Study the Gospel of John and Acts and 1 Corinthians and 1 John.
O
You know, you get these critics of what they call charismania, and yet if they ever had a direct revelation of the holiness and majesty of the Almighty, it would shut them up! They would experience a deep repentance, knowing how they had spoken of Him!
I hope and pray that they get this!
I hope and pray that they get this!
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With respect, I disagree with you. There are several scriptures that say, and also indicate that the Spirit was received at water baptism.
I don't remember any scriptures that tell us of anyone receiving the Spirit that had NOT been baptized... I could be wrong, but I don't remember any instances of that....
I don't remember any scriptures that tell us of anyone receiving the Spirit that had NOT been baptized... I could be wrong, but I don't remember any instances of that....
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I agree.
Believers can disagree on a lot of things and still have meaningful fellowship; however, when it comes to Pentecostals and the baptism of the Spirit it's a whole different ball game. Those who claim to have it are up there and those who don't are down there somewhere. That's totally unChristian.
Believers can disagree on a lot of things and still have meaningful fellowship; however, when it comes to Pentecostals and the baptism of the Spirit it's a whole different ball game. Those who claim to have it are up there and those who don't are down there somewhere. That's totally unChristian.
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I missed your last sentence: "I don't remember any scriptures that tell us of anyone receiving the Spirit that had NOT been baptized... I could be wrong, but I don't remember any instances of that...."
Water baptized but NOT Holy Spirit Baptized.
YES - it is recorded in Acts and is the reason for error in John McArthur and others who speak illicit words against the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and especially those who have the Gift of Tongues.
This is the WISDOM of God for those who love Him and abandon religion for TRUTH.
Water baptized but NOT Holy Spirit Baptized.
YES - it is recorded in Acts and is the reason for error in John McArthur and others who speak illicit words against the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and especially those who have the Gift of Tongues.
This is the WISDOM of God for those who love Him and abandon religion for TRUTH.