Pentecostals and others claiming "second experiences"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#261
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
#261
InfidelImam said:
Well, according to scripture, i'm correct. In fact, i do have sound biblical doctrine. You shouldn't skip the bible verses that don't agree with you, Roger.

Perhaps you should not put God in a box :unsure:

God is much bigger than your 'God of ink & paper'. Don't limit the power & the workings of God.

If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions. Funny that you actually believe in the supernatural, when it comes to salvation, but you discount every supernatural manifestation from henceforth.

And stop labeling the supernatural works of God through His people as 'mystic'. New age mysticism even.

That's unkind.

Good day :coffee:
Click to expand...
"If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions."

The new birth is a miracle. Born from above. Don't put God in a cage demanding signs. In fact you might want to consider the following statement by our Lord:

"And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”"

"But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;"

Hhmmm. Evil and adulterous generation. Quite a rebuke.
 
G

garee

Banned
#262
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#262
Waggles said:
The only Bible evidence in scripture of baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues.
End of story.
Click to expand...
You would first have to prove that the word sign and gift (outwardly seen) is even taught . The two words never work together to form one thought.

Sign are designed for those who are in rebellion (no prophecy the tongue of God). Prophecy (sola scriptura) no added oral tradition of men . . . the new tongue of God for those who do exercise ( new creatures) his work of faith that does work in us. (not of us)

No such thing as a "sign gift".(paganism foundation the evil generation that does seek after the temporal things seen . as those who declared. . . we will not worship a King not seen but will rather do whatsoever our own mouth declares making the tongue of God prophecy without effect, Can't serve two teaching masters..

Spiritual gifts not seen, yes. .End of story

Prophecy is the new tongue of God's interpretation( the gospel) .There are no outward sign by which men could see and then believe.

That is what the faithless Jews chased after trying to make Jesus into a circus seal. Faith is not something to confirm that our eyes may behold and then we will believe.

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Did you visit the foundation of the doctrine as the law written of in 1 Corinthians 14 ( Isaiah 28)? If it is destroyed or taken away how could we ever find the true understanding?
 
G

garee

Banned
#263
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#263
cv5 said:
"If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions."

The new birth is a miracle. Born from above. Don't put God in a cage demanding signs. In fact you might want to consider the following statement by our Lord:

"And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”"

"But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;"

Hhmmm. Evil and adulterous generation. Quite a rebuke.
Click to expand...

Amen..

Miracles are miracles nothing more and nothing les. God is nothing less .

Waking up on the green side of the grass as a dead creation witnessed as the wrath of God is a miracle.

Its when men give them venerable order "the greatest to the lesser" that things get turned upside down .


The greatest miracle "salvation".. . . risen form the dead.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#264
Nov 20, 2018
23,778
8,613
113
#264
cv5 said:
"If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions."

The new birth is a miracle. Born from above. Don't put God in a cage demanding signs. In fact you might want to consider the following statement by our Lord:

"And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”"

"But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;"

Hhmmm. Evil and adulterous generation. Quite a rebuke.
Click to expand...
The specific case (a sign from Heaven) is slightly different. But the contemptuous attitude is exactly the same.
 
Waggles

Waggles

Senior Member
#266
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,262
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#266
cv5 said:
"But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;"
Hhmmm. Evil and adulterous generation. Quite a rebuke.
Click to expand...
The rebuke is against the religious sects of the Pharisees and the Sadducees who ought to have known that the promised Saviour
mentioned by Moses and the prophets was standing there before him.
They kept taunting Jesus to prove his claim as to being sent from God even though he performed innumerable miracles.
But as for the New Covenant that applies to being converted and walking in the way as a Christian (follower of Christ)
Jesus declared openly -
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the
accompanying signs.
Mark 16:
3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by
those who heard,
4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according
to his will.
Hebrews 2:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#267
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#267
InfidelImam said:
Holy Spirit is a 'Him'. Not 'It'.
Click to expand...
So what....my statement was correct......

Itself is a reflexive pronoun, being the reflexive form of it. It can be used especially in the following ways:
as an object that refers to the same thing that is the subject of the sentence or that was mentioned earlier in the sentence:

dcontroversal said:
AMEN.......HOWBEIT when the SPIRIT of truth is COME he will not SPEAK of HIMSELF......

ANY religion that makes more to do of the Spirit than Christ is not being led of the Spirit..........the Holy Spirit POINTS TO CHRIST, not ITSELF!!!!!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#268
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#268
InfidelImam said:
Well, according to scripture, i'm correct. In fact, i do have sound biblical doctrine. You shouldn't skip the bible verses that don't agree with you, Roger.

Perhaps you should not put God in a box :unsure:

God is much bigger than your 'God of ink & paper'. Don't limit the power & the workings of God.

If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions. Funny that you actually believe in the supernatural, when it comes to salvation, but you discount every supernatural manifestation from henceforth.

And stop labeling the supernatural works of God through His people as 'mystic'. New age mysticism even.

That's unkind.

Good day :coffee:
Click to expand...
Typical response. Incoherent and wandering across what is and what is not the working of the Holy Spirit. Salvation is the Holy Spirit baptism and is not a second blessing. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an ongoing eternal baptism in the heart of the believer.

I will continue to call out the new age mysticism that has slipped into the modern church. Tongues are a sign that has ended until the tribulation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#269
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#269
Waggles said:
The only Bible evidence in scripture of baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues.
End of story.
Click to expand...
Not even close to true. It is the only evidence you may have but those who have been born again know the real conversion experience is nothing like you describe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
G

garee

Banned
#270
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#270
Dino246 said:
Refuted... repeatedly.

Why do you keep repeating rank error?
Click to expand...
Why don't you offer your opinion as to what the sign confirms according to the law as to it foundation rather than tying to make tongues prophecy from God something different that prophecy .

1 Corinthians is 14 the standard that shows the sign and prophecy... they apposes each other. Marvel not.

Sign as a wonderment or marvel is a source of faith that looked ahead as prophecy. It was used up until the last the sign of Jonas.

They follow never lead never to be sought after as in a I think I can make a noise that has no value and fall backward to indicate done deal .end of what I call a side show. . The kind the unbelieving Jew sought after. Do a trick them we will believe.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, (prophecy) but to them that believe not: (Prophecy the tongue of God ) but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14

What does the outward sign confirm?.Prophecy or those who refuse to hear it.Having thier own agenda as oral tradition that make prophecy the tongue of God without effect.falling backwad making sound with no meaning>

It is those who rebel against prophecy that do seek after lying wonderments as signs.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

1 Samuel 15:22-24 King James Version (KJV) And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, (prophecy the tongue of God ) he hath also rejected thee from being king. And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

Many more examples..that expose the neimissis of (sola scriptura)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#271
Jun 30, 2015
25,596
13,859
113
#271
garee said:
Why don't you offer your opinion as to what the sign confirms according to the law as to it foundation rather than tying to make tongues prophecy from God something different that prophecy .
Click to expand...
Why don't you own up to your error instead of changing the subject?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#272
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#272
UnitedWithChrist said:
Note that I said I would not listen to someone on a forum if they claimed I was at some lower level of spirituality. Seems like you are not capable of reading whole sentences but only the parts that you need in order to misrepresent someone.

Here's my simple conclusion: many Pentecostals/charismatics claim that non-Pentecostals/charismatics are inferior in some spiritual sense. They claim to be super-duper Christians who have achieved a higher level of spirituality through a second experience. In their minds, it isn't enough to be regenerated; you need to be regenerated and, then, experience a "second blessing" which empowers them for service, and sometimes to be sinless. This reminds me of the error of the Colossians, where Jesus isn't enough..it is "Jesus plus".

Additionally, many Pentecostals/charismatics slander non-Pentecostals/charismatics by claiming they don't believe in "the gifts" or "the Spirit", knowing all along that they do believe in spiritual gifts and do teach that the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, since there is a different view concerning "miraculous sign gifts" such as speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophesying or healing by individuals, this claim that others don't believe in "the Spirit" or "the gifts" is set forth in order to slander them.

As some have indicated, they don't hold these beliefs...however there are others that do, and I have talked to them. Some have been online, and some have been individuals involved in a parachurch ministry I am a part of.
Click to expand...
in the context of "pentecostal Doctrine" they ere no second blessing as taught in some circles the reason why is because if there is a second then there can be a third or fourth. You can read this is Chapter 6 Foundation of Pentecostal Theology entitled " Pneumatology" Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The term "super-duper " was never used in the teaching of this experience. it is a false narrative and one of the error to suggest a Christian is more saved, or more "super-duper". Jesus who is the authority on the subject said in Acts 1:8

You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you, to be a witness. That is why we need the Holy Spirit to be an effective witness of the Lord Jesus Christ. This role of the Holy Spirit is seen as a normative in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Spirit of the Lord would come upon men in the Old Testament and we see the Holy Spirit come upon men and women in the New Testament. Jesus said this in John 14-16 chapter.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#273
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#273
dcontroversal said:
So what....my statement was correct......

Itself is a reflexive pronoun, being the reflexive form of it. It can be used especially in the following ways:
as an object that refers to the same thing that is the subject of the sentence or that was mentioned earlier in the sentence:

dcontroversal said:
AMEN.......HOWBEIT when the SPIRIT of truth is COME he will not SPEAK of HIMSELF......

ANY religion that makes more to do of the Spirit than Christ is not being led of the Spirit..........the Holy Spirit POINTS TO CHRIST, not ITSELF!!!!!
Click to expand...
Who has the meter to see if we lean too much towards the Holy Spirit?

And are you the one they process the offenders through?

What is legal ? 50/50 ?
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#274
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#274
InfidelImam said:
Well, according to scripture, i'm correct. In fact, i do have sound biblical doctrine. You shouldn't skip the bible verses that don't agree with you, Roger.

Perhaps you should not put God in a box :unsure:

God is much bigger than your 'God of ink & paper'. Don't limit the power & the workings of God.

If there are no longer miracles & supernatural happenings in Christianity today, it's no different from the other dead religions. Funny that you actually believe in the supernatural, when it comes to salvation, but you discount every supernatural manifestation from henceforth.

And stop labeling the supernatural works of God through His people as 'mystic'. New age mysticism even.

That's unkind.

Good day :coffee:
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forums Infidelimam! I haven’t seen you here but glad you are..😉
 
You must log in or register to reply here.