First, having patience is one of the fruits of the Spirit, my friend. Second, God's people are able to explain God's Word simplly and easily. 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. A person who commits suicide is essentially committing self murder. Judas was called the son of Perdition. He was not saved. Unless of course you believe he was never saved (Which is a popular belief these days). Saul once had the Spirit of God and the Lord departed from him. A dark spirit had came upon him instead of God and he ended up committing suicide. There is no indication that God was in favor with Saul at this point at all.
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Refer to my previous quote....Judas was a devil from the beginning and was not saved......and the rest fall under my original comment.....you attempting to apply verses that have nothing to with losing salvation will not change the facts nor the truth of eternal security......and bolding and coloring it will not help....the word damnation is judgment and is not necessarily indicative of losing salvation and or indicating one headed to hell....so....again....twist all you want.....keep working yourself to nowhere.....I trust Jesus and his ability to save and keep saved.....you trust yourself and your abilities......big difference!
PREVIOUS QUOTE--->Your scriptural references contain people who never were saved to begin with, scriptures out of context and contexts that do not apply unto salvation......the bible teaches the security of the believer...get over it and your false doctrine....Jesus saves to the UTTERMOST, What God does it is ETERNAL, Jesus ever lives to MAKE INTERCESSION, CHRIST finishes that which he STARTED, I am in the Father's hand and in the HAND of Christ and sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise and NOTHING can separate me from that position, including MYSELF as EVERY SIN I WOULD EVER COMMIT WERE paid for 2000 years ago almost when JESUS died unto sin ONCE.......My salvation is secure....too bad you have to work for yours and trust into yourself.......!
You are saying what many state and I am sorry it is not accurate. Paul was learned enough and proves he could have used the word salvation instead of Love in Romans 8.38-39.
God love for the sinner who refuses to renounce being a child of wrath, rebellion and disobedience is never going to separate from that sinner, even if that sinner dies in his sins and goes to hell.
God's love will take you to hell. This is because God does not send anyone to hell, you earn your way to hell.
I would urge anyone to read this before attacking what I said.
I understand your statement. Think long and hard abut this and you will come to see what I am saying.
Well, first, we have already discussed Judas before and I brought up passages that suggest that he was once saved (that you rejected). So there is no use discussing that unless you are open to seeing it again. Second, the bolded lettering in 1 Timothy 5 is all too clear to see. Your lack of an explanation on these passages lets me know you don't really want to see what the Bible is really saying on this point.
Anyways, may God bless you.
And please be well.
I will be praying for you.
Anyways, may God bless you.
And please be well.
I will be praying for you.
Actually no. OSAS is more popular these days. And why shouldn't it be? It allows for the believer to think they can sin and still be saved. They can serve God and themselves. Yet, Jesus said no man can serve two masters, though.
Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. Also, Romans 8:35-39 only mentions external things that cannot separate you from the love or salvation of abiding in Christ. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. Two things you will not find in Romans 8:35-39 is "you" and "your sin." Nowhere does it say that you and or your sin cannot separate you from the love or salvation in Christ.
Those who WALK NOT after the flesh but those who WALK after the Spirit are not under the Condemnation (Romans 8:1).
Also Romans says, "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:7-8).
Paul says in Galatians 6 that a believer should be not deceived. Whatosever a man soweth that shall he also reap. Galatians 5, Paul lists several sins to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul contrasts this with those who have the fruits of the Spirit. Paul says in Galatians 5:24 that those who are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. This tells us that those who have not crucifed the affections and lusts are not of Christ.
Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. Also, Romans 8:35-39 only mentions external things that cannot separate you from the love or salvation of abiding in Christ. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. Two things you will not find in Romans 8:35-39 is "you" and "your sin." Nowhere does it say that you and or your sin cannot separate you from the love or salvation in Christ.
Those who WALK NOT after the flesh but those who WALK after the Spirit are not under the Condemnation (Romans 8:1).
Also Romans says, "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:7-8).
Paul says in Galatians 6 that a believer should be not deceived. Whatosever a man soweth that shall he also reap. Galatians 5, Paul lists several sins to those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul contrasts this with those who have the fruits of the Spirit. Paul says in Galatians 5:24 that those who are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. This tells us that those who have not crucifed the affections and lusts are not of Christ.
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Well, I don't get the impression that you are OSAS Lite like one of my close brothers I have fellowship with in real life. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Please clarify what you believe OSAS is and how it does not teach one to think they have a license to sin. My close friend says if anyone practices sin they do not know God and were never born again to begin with. Granted, I do not hold to the view of OSAS Lite and think it is false, too. But at least I can say he is my brother because he does not agree with those who claim to make statements that would lead a person to think they can sin and still be saved. In other words, he does not make any excuses for sin under any circumstance. Can you say the same?
Also, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I have argued with Works Salvationists. So you are barking up the wrong tree.
Also, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I have argued with Works Salvationists. So you are barking up the wrong tree.
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Also, why have you been arguing against doing what is right with me? Is not God for holiness and right living? Does not God support His own commands in the New Testament? Why have you given "likes" to people who do agree with the deadly seven? Are you not teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine if you believe suicide does not lead to Hell for the believer?
I have been bro, but you continue to make assumptions, based on a 7 point check list.
I am not free to sin at all, in fact, there are some sins that have no power over me, because I believe sin is a choice and not an action.
I also cannot get behind your idea that God's salvation is conditional, because it would mean that he is sending his son to die on the cross all the time. My SIN condition was taken care of 2,000 years ago bub. I was made righteous the minute I came to Jesus and made him Lord of my life.
Because my righteousness is a position and not personal performance, then I am able to master SIN and not let it master me. I am a partake of the divine nature. Grace does not give me the desire to SIN, the Law gives me a desire to SIN. This is where you and I separate and are different.
Conditional salvation does nothing mroe than propogate fear into a believer. It places fear on me, that I will never be good enough for God. Well bub, the Bible says I was made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. My God is a good God, not some fearful angry mad God you make him out to be and that demands I continue to be saved.
No sir, his grace and my faith saved me. My works are nothing but self righteous acts.
JESUS + NOTHING I DO = EVERYTHING.
You conditional salvation folks give way to much power to SIN. SIN is defeated. I am spirit led which makes me not only a son, but a joint heir NOW, not LATER.
My salvation comes from the grace of God and by me exercising my faith and not of myself or anything I do.
You seem to frustrate the grace of God and believe your are made righteous by the works you do and because you do, you believe Christ died in vain. You won't say that, but that is exactly what conditional works based salvation brain washing does to people.
You are confusing OSAS with seeker friendly churches full of people who have mental assent and have never been truly saved or repented[made a 180 degree decision to change]
There is a hell to shun and a heaven to gain for sure. I can assure you Jason, that because of being made righteous I will be more holy on accident, than I ever will be on purpose. I do not have to "work" for my salvation or righteousness. I am at perfect rest and Sin has no power over me.
I am not free to sin at all, in fact, there are some sins that have no power over me, because I believe sin is a choice and not an action.
I also cannot get behind your idea that God's salvation is conditional, because it would mean that he is sending his son to die on the cross all the time. My SIN condition was taken care of 2,000 years ago bub. I was made righteous the minute I came to Jesus and made him Lord of my life.
Because my righteousness is a position and not personal performance, then I am able to master SIN and not let it master me. I am a partake of the divine nature. Grace does not give me the desire to SIN, the Law gives me a desire to SIN. This is where you and I separate and are different.
Conditional salvation does nothing mroe than propogate fear into a believer. It places fear on me, that I will never be good enough for God. Well bub, the Bible says I was made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. My God is a good God, not some fearful angry mad God you make him out to be and that demands I continue to be saved.
No sir, his grace and my faith saved me. My works are nothing but self righteous acts.
JESUS + NOTHING I DO = EVERYTHING.
You conditional salvation folks give way to much power to SIN. SIN is defeated. I am spirit led which makes me not only a son, but a joint heir NOW, not LATER.
My salvation comes from the grace of God and by me exercising my faith and not of myself or anything I do.
You seem to frustrate the grace of God and believe your are made righteous by the works you do and because you do, you believe Christ died in vain. You won't say that, but that is exactly what conditional works based salvation brain washing does to people.
You are confusing OSAS with seeker friendly churches full of people who have mental assent and have never been truly saved or repented[made a 180 degree decision to change]
There is a hell to shun and a heaven to gain for sure. I can assure you Jason, that because of being made righteous I will be more holy on accident, than I ever will be on purpose. I do not have to "work" for my salvation or righteousness. I am at perfect rest and Sin has no power over me.
Your interpretation that 1 John 3.11-15 is about suicide is wrong. I do nto ahve to work at being HOly, or rightoesu because I am given that position when I was saved.
This is what grace is all about and it escapes you because your letting your head knowledge reign over heart knowledge.
Not one person here I have liked believes in your 7 bullet points. No OSAS person does. But because you delight in yourself and not being spiritually led you do not see it.
God does keep a list of rights and wrongs Jason, when we mess up and SIN he is faith and righteous to forgive us of those sins. You say he does not forgive certain sins, that means you do not believe Jesus was enough and means that you think 1 John 1.9 is a lie.
The thing about grace is that it gives us rest from SIN, we do not desire to SIN, because we know it would hurt abba daddy, why would I want to hurt someone that loves me?
Come to full age bro...
This is what grace is all about and it escapes you because your letting your head knowledge reign over heart knowledge.
Not one person here I have liked believes in your 7 bullet points. No OSAS person does. But because you delight in yourself and not being spiritually led you do not see it.
God does keep a list of rights and wrongs Jason, when we mess up and SIN he is faith and righteous to forgive us of those sins. You say he does not forgive certain sins, that means you do not believe Jesus was enough and means that you think 1 John 1.9 is a lie.
The thing about grace is that it gives us rest from SIN, we do not desire to SIN, because we know it would hurt abba daddy, why would I want to hurt someone that loves me?
Come to full age bro...
Nowhere does Scripture teach what you are saying here, though. If you do not forgive, you are not forgiven is just one example. The parable of the sower is another. For those who received the seed of the Word succeeded against the devil trying to take the seed out of their hearts by the fact they believed God's Word. But yet, some did not endure, though. The thorns choked the Word in some and they fell away due to the cares and riches of this life. Others fell away due to persecution. Hebrews 11 says the Jews were cut off because of unbelief. We (the Gentiles) are told to continue in His goodness otherwise we will be cut off, too. Now, we clearly know this is talking about salvation because the cutting off the Jews was a salvation or spiritual issue with them not believing and accepting Jesus. So no. Salvation is Conditional. In fact, you said SOME sins do not have power over you. This implies that you think you are still saved even though there is sin in your life. This IS teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine. Not to mention the fact that you said sucide was not a sin, too. So I don't see you teaching OSAS Lite or in being in support of that which is good and right. If I have misunderstood you, then please clarify it for me.
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What a whacky response. The reason for the whacky response, is that you do not believe that Christ has done ALL that ever needs to be done for a sinner to be saved.
The Bible says NOTHING can separate us from the love of God, yet along comes Jason and adds to scripture.
About all you can do at this point is kick the dust and mumble excuses.
Look here....what is the matter with you, that you cannot read and understand a simple verse?
I understand the difference between spiritual and flesh as well as carnal and spiritual.
Really, your explanations are on the edge of pathetic and very disappointing.
You are giving us the gospel of Jason, not the gospel of Jesus Christ
The Bible says NOTHING can separate us from the love of God, yet along comes Jason and adds to scripture.
About all you can do at this point is kick the dust and mumble excuses.
Look here....what is the matter with you, that you cannot read and understand a simple verse?
I understand the difference between spiritual and flesh as well as carnal and spiritual.
Really, your explanations are on the edge of pathetic and very disappointing.
You are giving us the gospel of Jason, not the gospel of Jesus Christ
Jason,
How many verses did I use my reply that you cannot see? To say nothing I teach is from the scripture means you have zero knowledge of the scripture. I trapped you on purpose and camouflaged many verses in my reply to you in plain sight.
You are a cloud and wind without rain.
Oh I forgive all the time Jason. OSAS teaches us this too.
The parable of the sower speaks of truly born again and those that were among us as antichrist but were never really part of us as 1 John 2.18-19 states.
Thew Jews back then and today are still under the new covenant and have never been replaced or cut off. to State this means the 12 minus Judas, were never born again and they were. This is replacement theology which is a lie from hell.
Jason are you Jesus? do you led a sinless perfect life? Hey everyone Jesus is right her eon CC.com, did you know that!?!?? Jesus came back as Jason everybody!!!
Whoever told you that SIN leads to immediate revocation of your eternal status is in serious error. How can you not SIN Jason, tell me how can you sit here and lie and state you are as perfect as Jesus Christ? Tell me I am waiting, how do you do what no man but Jesus could do?
Last time and let this saying sink down from your ears. 1 John 3.15 is not about suicide.
How many verses did I use my reply that you cannot see? To say nothing I teach is from the scripture means you have zero knowledge of the scripture. I trapped you on purpose and camouflaged many verses in my reply to you in plain sight.
You are a cloud and wind without rain.
Oh I forgive all the time Jason. OSAS teaches us this too.
The parable of the sower speaks of truly born again and those that were among us as antichrist but were never really part of us as 1 John 2.18-19 states.
Thew Jews back then and today are still under the new covenant and have never been replaced or cut off. to State this means the 12 minus Judas, were never born again and they were. This is replacement theology which is a lie from hell.
Jason are you Jesus? do you led a sinless perfect life? Hey everyone Jesus is right her eon CC.com, did you know that!?!?? Jesus came back as Jason everybody!!!
Whoever told you that SIN leads to immediate revocation of your eternal status is in serious error. How can you not SIN Jason, tell me how can you sit here and lie and state you are as perfect as Jesus Christ? Tell me I am waiting, how do you do what no man but Jesus could do?
Last time and let this saying sink down from your ears. 1 John 3.15 is not about suicide.
You actually have to find a set of verses that say that a believer can abide in unrepentant sin and or live a sinful lifestyle or have a little bit of sin on the side (in their life) and still be saved. If not, then what you propose does not exist in Scripture.
No, the grace of God does not allow us to get away with some sin or even one sin. For Adam and Eve only committed one sin and it was just the eating of the wrong tree. This one sin led to the Fall or separation of man and God whereby we would need a Savior to save us spiritually from our sins.
Not true. I have already debated with some here who believe in these 7 points. In fact, where do you think I got these beliefs? Do you think I just made them up? No. I got them from OSAS proponents.
Uh, no. There are going to be two Judgments (Where God records everything). One Judgment is for the body of Christ and the other Judgment is for unbelievers (i.e. the Great White Throne Judgment).
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).
Are you doing good and evil? Or are you doing just good? This passage does not say you can do both good and evil. It's either one or the other.
Let's not twist around what I have said. Scripture says if you do not forgive, then God the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). How can you be forgiven if the Father does not forgive you? 1 John 1:9 is about the believer properly resolving any sin that they might commit at certain points in their life. It is not an excuse for sin but it is for those who stumble in their walk in striving to be Holy before the Lord in all they do.
Yet, you implied some sin does have dominion over you and you said suicide is not a sin when it clearly is a sin according to the Bible. For no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15). Suicide is self murder. Just ask people around you.
Do you think it is respectful to call your new boss "bro" or the President of the United States as "bro"?
How much more is it in disrespect if you are in disagreement with them to say that word?
What makes me any different than them?
No, the grace of God does not allow us to get away with some sin or even one sin. For Adam and Eve only committed one sin and it was just the eating of the wrong tree. This one sin led to the Fall or separation of man and God whereby we would need a Savior to save us spiritually from our sins.
Not true. I have already debated with some here who believe in these 7 points. In fact, where do you think I got these beliefs? Do you think I just made them up? No. I got them from OSAS proponents.
Uh, no. There are going to be two Judgments (Where God records everything). One Judgment is for the body of Christ and the other Judgment is for unbelievers (i.e. the Great White Throne Judgment).
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).
Are you doing good and evil? Or are you doing just good? This passage does not say you can do both good and evil. It's either one or the other.
Let's not twist around what I have said. Scripture says if you do not forgive, then God the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). How can you be forgiven if the Father does not forgive you? 1 John 1:9 is about the believer properly resolving any sin that they might commit at certain points in their life. It is not an excuse for sin but it is for those who stumble in their walk in striving to be Holy before the Lord in all they do.
Yet, you implied some sin does have dominion over you and you said suicide is not a sin when it clearly is a sin according to the Bible. For no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15). Suicide is self murder. Just ask people around you.
Do you think it is respectful to call your new boss "bro" or the President of the United States as "bro"?
How much more is it in disrespect if you are in disagreement with them to say that word?
What makes me any different than them?
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