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Thats all well and good but how can you have a Resurrection without the cross? Just saying that He had to die before He could be resurrected is that not so? No doubt that you love God as I do. But, everything comes through the cross. I am dirt and unworthy my only hope is the perfect sacrifice of the cross. It is not just a beam of wood it is the precious blood that flowed. Without it I'm doomed and have no hope.
Yes, their tongue is suggestive of whether or not their heart is right with God. For surely if one curses the Lord's name and or others is not loving God and loving others as a person who is born again of the Spirit.
Are you saying now that you are unsure of in where he stands?
Romans 7 is Paul speaking from the perspective before he was a Christian. In Romans 7:14, Paul says he is carnal and he is sold under sin. Which would be a contradiction if he were to say this as a believer in Jesus Christ because he says in Romans 8:2, that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the law of sin and death.
As for repenting of good works: Well, if one's work is God's work or Christ's work moving within the believer, then there is nothing to repent of. For a true believer will bring forth the fruits of the Spirit within their life.
As for my bring up of 1 John 3:15 in regards to 1 John 4: Well, I can't see how you can write that one off. Either way you slice it, we cannot hate our brother otherwise we will not have eternal life abiding within us.
Are you saying now that you are unsure of in where he stands?
Romans 7 is Paul speaking from the perspective before he was a Christian. In Romans 7:14, Paul says he is carnal and he is sold under sin. Which would be a contradiction if he were to say this as a believer in Jesus Christ because he says in Romans 8:2, that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the law of sin and death.
As for repenting of good works: Well, if one's work is God's work or Christ's work moving within the believer, then there is nothing to repent of. For a true believer will bring forth the fruits of the Spirit within their life.
As for my bring up of 1 John 3:15 in regards to 1 John 4: Well, I can't see how you can write that one off. Either way you slice it, we cannot hate our brother otherwise we will not have eternal life abiding within us.
Yes, I agree. I just think folks throw the word "cross" around instead of Jesus without really thinking it through. It is not the cross in and of itself that saves. It is Jesus that saves. The cross was just the method of death God chose. The importance of our Redemption is in His death and resurrection and not in the mothod of his death so much (Even though the cross fulfills Messianic prophecy).
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Well, first, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe I am saved right here and right now by God's grace and what He accomplished for me with His death, burial, and resurrection. If I sin, I get right with God by confessing that sin to Jesus and forsaking it (See 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7). Second, does a believer just magically become born again one day without doing nothing? No. Does not a believer repent and accept Jesus as their Savior? Third, as I said before, it is Jesus Christ and not the cross that we place our faith within. We are sanctified by Jesus and not a piece of wood that people like to make into pagan idols today. For many unbelievers have cross tattoos but it doesn't really mean anything. Catholics make cross like gestures across their chests and place a cross mark on their foreheads on ash Wednesday. A mark.
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Biblically speaking a person sins far less if they know the penalty of sin has been removed from their life. However, I don't blame you for not understanding that, for many ministers refuse to preach it for they believe people will view it as a licence to sin, others are afraid of the persecution they will receive from other ministers if they do preach it, and many do not understand it
Again, I do not blame you for not understanding the core of the new covenant. The most tragic thing in Christendom is most ministers DO NOT preach from the pulpit of the two core foundational principals on which the new covenant stands, more a diluted message gets preached. A diluted message brings diluted results
I didn't bring up OSAS...you did.
I brought up grace...you didn't.
"Well, let me put it like this to you: If your presentation of the Gospel does not expose it to the charge of Antinomianism you are probably not putting it correctly. What do I mean by that? Just this: The Gospel, you see, comes as this free gift of God–irrespective of what man does. Now, the moment you say a thing like that, you are liable to provoke somebody to say, “Well, if that is so it doesn’t matter what I do.” The Apostle takes up that argument more than once in this great epistle. “What then,” he says at the beginning of chapter 6, “shall we do evil–commit sin–that grace might abound?” He’s just been saying: “where sin abounded grace does much more abound.” “Very well,” says someone. “This is a marvelous doctrine, this ‘Go and get drunk, do what you like the grace of God will put you right.'” Antinomianism. Now, this doctrine of the Scriptures–this justification by faith only, this free grace of God in salvation–is always exposed to that charge of Antinomianism. Paul was charged with it. He said, “You know, some people say that’s what I’m preaching.” Paul’s preaching was charged with Antinomianism…So I say, it is a very good test of preaching. You see–what is not evangelical preaching is this: It’s the kind of preaching that says to people, “Now, if you live a good life; if you don’t commit certain sins; and if you do good to others; and if you become a church member and attend regularly and are busy and active you will be a fine Christian and you’ll go to Heaven. That’s the opposite of Evangelical preaching–and it isn’t exposed to the charge of Antinomianism because…it is telling men to save themselves by their good works…And it’s not the Gospel–because the Gospel always exposes itself to this misunderstanding from the standpoint of Antinomianism. So, let all of us test our preaching, our conversation, our talk to others about the Gospel by that particular test…If you don’t make people say things like that sometimes, if you’re not misunderstood and slanderously reported from the standpoint of Antinomianism it’s because you don’t believe the Gospel truly and you don’t preach it truly." -Martyn Lloyd Jones
I brought up grace...you didn't.
"Well, let me put it like this to you: If your presentation of the Gospel does not expose it to the charge of Antinomianism you are probably not putting it correctly. What do I mean by that? Just this: The Gospel, you see, comes as this free gift of God–irrespective of what man does. Now, the moment you say a thing like that, you are liable to provoke somebody to say, “Well, if that is so it doesn’t matter what I do.” The Apostle takes up that argument more than once in this great epistle. “What then,” he says at the beginning of chapter 6, “shall we do evil–commit sin–that grace might abound?” He’s just been saying: “where sin abounded grace does much more abound.” “Very well,” says someone. “This is a marvelous doctrine, this ‘Go and get drunk, do what you like the grace of God will put you right.'” Antinomianism. Now, this doctrine of the Scriptures–this justification by faith only, this free grace of God in salvation–is always exposed to that charge of Antinomianism. Paul was charged with it. He said, “You know, some people say that’s what I’m preaching.” Paul’s preaching was charged with Antinomianism…So I say, it is a very good test of preaching. You see–what is not evangelical preaching is this: It’s the kind of preaching that says to people, “Now, if you live a good life; if you don’t commit certain sins; and if you do good to others; and if you become a church member and attend regularly and are busy and active you will be a fine Christian and you’ll go to Heaven. That’s the opposite of Evangelical preaching–and it isn’t exposed to the charge of Antinomianism because…it is telling men to save themselves by their good works…And it’s not the Gospel–because the Gospel always exposes itself to this misunderstanding from the standpoint of Antinomianism. So, let all of us test our preaching, our conversation, our talk to others about the Gospel by that particular test…If you don’t make people say things like that sometimes, if you’re not misunderstood and slanderously reported from the standpoint of Antinomianism it’s because you don’t believe the Gospel truly and you don’t preach it truly." -Martyn Lloyd Jones
Not true. Just look at any real world example where you take away the consequences of something and look at how people will react. In other words, if there was no consequences anymore to people speeding on the highway, what do you think is going to happen? More people are going to speed on the highway. If man found a cure to weight loss, what is going to happen? More people are going to eat what used to be considered weight gaining foods.
Anyways, we know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.
Antinomianism Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
In fact, Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit. George Sodini used to be the Poster Child for Eternal Security or OSAS. Yet, instead, he turned out to be a mass murderer in the end, though.
George Sodini - OSAS Proponent Health Club Mass Murderer.
Anyways, we know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.
Antinomianism Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
In fact, Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit. George Sodini used to be the Poster Child for Eternal Security or OSAS. Yet, instead, he turned out to be a mass murderer in the end, though.
George Sodini - OSAS Proponent Health Club Mass Murderer.
Paul is speaking after his conversion, or at least as one attempting to keep the law in his own strength whether converted or not. Apart from God's grace, even as Christians, yes we are carnal and slaves to sin.
You just don't get it. Your best work is still tainted by the flesh and self and would never stand the test of 100% purity.
You just don't get it. Your best work is still tainted by the flesh and self and would never stand the test of 100% purity.
No. Some of the examples above show that one can be in a saved state and then fall back into a lost state again. The verses stand. If you want to address the verses, that is up to you. But making a generalized statement of disagreement does not really mean anything unless you can back up your belief of those passages using the context.
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace Rom 6:14
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death Rom 7:4&5
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law Rom 3:31
I used to believe just as you do now Jason. But you believe in a contradiction in truth. ''We are not under the law as long as we obey the law.''
The only way you can love God as God wants you to love Him is if you know the penalty of sin has been removed from your life, if you do not believe that you cannot. In that knowledge is victory over sin
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death Rom 7:4&5
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law Rom 3:31
I used to believe just as you do now Jason. But you believe in a contradiction in truth. ''We are not under the law as long as we obey the law.''
The only way you can love God as God wants you to love Him is if you know the penalty of sin has been removed from your life, if you do not believe that you cannot. In that knowledge is victory over sin