People who have addictions are sinners
- Thread starter Elizabeth619
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Hebrews 12:1 ¶Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Hebrews 12:4 ¶Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Hebrews 12:4 ¶Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
I agree with you in theory, Elizabeth, but do you intend to call out those who use drinks with caffiene, or who eat foods with enormous amounts of salts, fats, and sugars? What about people who live extremely sedentary lives (like people who are on CC seemingly 24/7)? Are we to suggest that people who are obsessive about taking care of their bodies are exemplars?
In the end I think the questions you are asking are, at heart, the same issue that Christians in Rome and Corinth were dealing with- ie food sacrificed to idols. Paul is clear in both cases that this is a matter of conscience rather than black and white, cut and dry. At the end of the day, one has to decide about all food and all other activites: Can I do whatever I am doing for the glory of God? I don't see how one can smoke or get drunk for the glory of God, but like I said, I also don't see how one can eat doritos to the glory of God and I've never seen anyone calling anyone else out for it. "Food for thought"
In the end I think the questions you are asking are, at heart, the same issue that Christians in Rome and Corinth were dealing with- ie food sacrificed to idols. Paul is clear in both cases that this is a matter of conscience rather than black and white, cut and dry. At the end of the day, one has to decide about all food and all other activites: Can I do whatever I am doing for the glory of God? I don't see how one can smoke or get drunk for the glory of God, but like I said, I also don't see how one can eat doritos to the glory of God and I've never seen anyone calling anyone else out for it. "Food for thought"
A
Proverbs 6
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
you should read the God Hates thread
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
you should read the God Hates thread
L
Romans 3:23
(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6:16-18
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
(18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6:16-18
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
(17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
(18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
M
I'd be interested to hear people's definitions of 'addiction', and why an addiction is, in and of itself, sinful. Personally, I'm unconvinced that having an addiction, while quite arguably not the best trait to possess, is intrinsically immoral.
Is it just substance addiction? Or do all habits count? Are people with OCD constantly sinning, since they feel they HAVE to do x y or z at specific times?
Is it just substance addiction? Or do all habits count? Are people with OCD constantly sinning, since they feel they HAVE to do x y or z at specific times?
F
The only reason why people are addicted is because they place more value on the substance or behaviour that they are addicted to than they place value on God however, that does not mean that everyone who has an addiction is unsaved.
Please understand, by no means does salvation give us a license to sin. I believe it's just the opposite. Yes, it is quite possible that many who are indeed enslaved by sin have religion instead of real salvation. However, I believe that there are many who are indeed saved who are truly repentant however, they simply do not know how to obtain victory. They do love God but because of little or poor discipleship, they remain enslaved by something.
I have found this to be true particularly among newer believers, ussually after the first six to twelve months after their initial salvation experience once the newness (zeal) has worn off. These people need (1) to experience God's love on such a deeper level than they no longer place more value on sin and self, placing more value on God and His precious promises, and (2) they need to be taught the depth of God's love for us and how there is victory from sin when we walk in His love.
Ephesians 5
Walk in Love
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.Walk in Light
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:
“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
Please understand, by no means does salvation give us a license to sin. I believe it's just the opposite. Yes, it is quite possible that many who are indeed enslaved by sin have religion instead of real salvation. However, I believe that there are many who are indeed saved who are truly repentant however, they simply do not know how to obtain victory. They do love God but because of little or poor discipleship, they remain enslaved by something.
I have found this to be true particularly among newer believers, ussually after the first six to twelve months after their initial salvation experience once the newness (zeal) has worn off. These people need (1) to experience God's love on such a deeper level than they no longer place more value on sin and self, placing more value on God and His precious promises, and (2) they need to be taught the depth of God's love for us and how there is victory from sin when we walk in His love.
Ephesians 5
Walk in Love
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.Walk in Light
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:
“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
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I agree with Fire on the Altar. The Holy Spirit gives us strength to overcome sin.. free from sin and death after we are born again.. however I'm not going to nitpick about smoking.. I have friends, family members, acquaintances that smoke and i still love them, I don't know if they are valuing smoking over anything else but that isn't for me to know. I personally don't like smoking and think it's unsanitary and icky but that is a personal bias. and what does keeping our temple pure mean? does it mean we exercise 5 hours a day and only eat small rations of food? The Bible doesn't give us any dietary restrictions .. in the OT sure but that is levitical law not NT where God says that isn't required anymore.. i'm rambling .. thanks elizabeth!!!
M
I reject this supposition. Unless you've got a wildly different understanding of addiction than I have, I simply cannot see how this can be true. A man may sincerely love God, and recognise the infinite value of the divine, yet still have an addiction or habit. Many addictions are quite mundane, everyday things which by and large have very little impact on his life, and certainly don't seem to interfere with his relationship with God.
No, the reason people become addicted to things is because a) some things are addictive, and b) we are creatures of habit. But I don't see how an addiction, in and of itself, is an indictment of the value one places on God.
No, the reason people become addicted to things is because a) some things are addictive, and b) we are creatures of habit. But I don't see how an addiction, in and of itself, is an indictment of the value one places on God.
One of the mistakes that people with addictions often make is the thinking error of believing that their addiction controls them and that they are too weak or entirely powerless to make different choices. The truth is that they are too strong willed and want the thing that they are addicted to more than anything else, even if they would argue to the contrary. For an alcoholic the alcohol is what this person wants more than family, friends, finances or other things. Where they feel trapped by alcohol, they are actually trapped by their own strong desire to consume alcohol. Hence they are too strong, not too weak. It is a cognitive error that forms the foundation of practically any addiction.
After saying this, I would argue that there are no addictive substances, but addictive personalities.
After saying this, I would argue that there are no addictive substances, but addictive personalities.
N
I agree with you in theory, Elizabeth, but do you intend to call out those who use drinks with caffiene, or who eat foods with enormous amounts of salts, fats, and sugars? What about people who live extremely sedentary lives (like people who are on CC seemingly 24/7)? Are we to suggest that people who are obsessive about taking care of their bodies are exemplars?
And here you have it.
And here you have it.
F
I personally have met several christians who were once addicts to some of the most addictive drugs you can imagine inclkuding one case who was addixcted to crack cocaine and meth, they were instantly delivered upon their salvation. Yes their deliverance is indeed a miracle but all will tell you it's because their desire Jesus more than anything else in life. The way I see it, when we value God above all else, our desire for anything but God fades.
People can choose to believe however they like however, I have seen this first hand. Our deliverance rests in our willingness to know God more intimately.
People can choose to believe however they like however, I have seen this first hand. Our deliverance rests in our willingness to know God more intimately.