Please Explain What Jesus is Teaching This Quote

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,157
3,090
113
#1
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,157
932
113
#2
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.[/QUOTE

One application you can consider is "truth". Jesus is the truth, the way and the life. The original translation reads like this in John The Only way , the only truth, and the only life. The statement of Jesus here in Luke 12 is also prophetic of the coming of the Lord as you read on in verses 54 on and discernment of the times.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,653
3,294
113
#3
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division
Christ divides families and friends from each other based upon their response to the Gospel. Thus peace is removed, and conflict is introduced.

Those who are saved enter the Kingdom Light (children of light), whereas those who are not saved remain in the Kingdom of Darkness (children of disobedience) . Since these two are opposed to each other, there will be conflict.
 

Paul1979

New member
Jun 19, 2018
27
2
3
#4
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
This quote comes from Micah 7:6

For son dishonors father,
Daughter rises against her mother,
Daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
A man’s enemies are the men of his own household.

The writer of Luke is paralleling Micah. That Jesus came to divide Israel. The question is: Is this "Prophecy" or is this just the writer's way to sneak something in? I am of the opinion that much of the Gospels are not reflective of "History" but that the writers used the Old Testament to craft a brilliant narrative around the "Life of Jesus", and they knew how to use the OT and use such parallels to fit the Life of Jesus with the Narrative of Israel from the OT.

If one was very familiar with Homer, one would notice many similarities with the Gospel of Mark and the Works of Homer. My research on the history and literature from the Greek and Roman history, reveals that the writers drew heavy from Greek Philosophy and Greek Literature and drew heavily from the OT when it came to putting the story of Jesus to the paper.

For example, Logos was first introduced by Greek Philosophers, and Pythagoras was one of the first to use the word around c. 450 B.C.E. The writer of the Gospel of John used it to refer to Christ. Jesus and the Demoniac of the Gospel of Mark parallel with Odyessus' and Circe. One of the Parallels is that Odyessus men were turned into swine by Circe, and Jesus cast a legion of demons into swine. Odyessus leaves after the event, and Jesus leaves after the event. Odyessus gets the Cyclops to say his name is "Nobody" and Jesus gets the demons to say their name is "Legion" Nobody vs Many. The Cyclops is Nude and the possessed is Nude. Odysseus blinded the Cyclops and Jesus healed the man. In Mark, the formerly possessed man implored to go with Jesus and Jesus refused. The cyclops asked Odyessus to return and he refused. Jesus and Odyessus both departed on ships.

Having said all of this, there is a lot of influences when it comes to the Bible, from the OT and from Greek and Roman Culture and it is fascinating to see this. When you see the NT quotes the OT, look for parallels and ask the question, is why is Jesus being paralleled with these verses. If you are able, look at the greater influence of Greek and Roman culture, you will see a whole new world about the Bible and how Jesus is portrayed.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,438
15,292
113
#5
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Two cannot walk together unless they are agreed......regardless of any and all who reject this truth, the word of God by very design, nature and character will do only one of two things....

A. It either draws men, families, churches closer to God and each other or....
b. It will divide asunder and like a scalpel will cut and remove any and all cancerous growth
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,194
778
113
#6
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to bring peace between man and God. He reconciled both Jew and gentile to God.

Those who have fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ will have fellowship with each other.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
#7
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
The perfect text! It illustrates what is happening in these threads on cc.
Jesus comes along with the New Covenant and we have folks that just for some reason cannot let go the old......
Nothing we can say to change a hardened heart. People are too hung up on their denominations or that's how my Daddy taught me to see...... Pride.....
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,551
6,334
113
53
#8
Christ divides families and friends from each other based upon their response to the Gospel. Thus peace is removed, and conflict is introduced.

Those who are saved enter the Kingdom Light (children of light), whereas those who are not saved remain in the Kingdom of Darkness (children of disobedience) . Since these two are opposed to each other, there will be conflict.
I have experienced MUCH conflict with my Roman Catholic family members ever since I became a believer several years ago. :(
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,157
3,090
113
#9
Two cannot walk together unless they are agreed......regardless of any and all who reject this truth, the word of God by very design, nature and character will do only one of two things....

A. It either draws men, families, churches closer to God and each other or....
b. It will divide asunder and like a scalpel will cut and remove any and all cancerous growth

The heart is there also, but your concise post is spot on, cannot put both....j
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,368
2,111
113
#10
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Well the first converts to Christianity from the Jewish people quickly fulfilled this scripture because within Jewish family's some believed and some rejected Jesus and thus they where divided and ended up in conflict..

I have experienced this in my own life when i became a Christian in my early 20's.. My dad is a devout catholic and i renounced that religion to become a Christian and now there is division between me and my dad.. He has not officially disowned me yet but he is not far from it.. When the choice between honoring the LORD or honoring ones dad the hard choice must be made and choices have worldly consequences..

Matthew 10: KJV
37 "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. {38} And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,203
345
83
#11
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
There is a spiritual war going on. Light cannot mix with darkness. If you choose light and your family member chooses darkness, there will be conflict between both of you.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,071
686
113
72
#12
This quote comes from Micah 7:6

For son dishonors father,
Daughter rises against her mother,
Daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
A man’s enemies are the men of his own household.

The writer of Luke is paralleling Micah. That Jesus came to divide Israel. The question is: Is this "Prophecy" or is this just the writer's way to sneak something in? I am of the opinion that much of the Gospels are not reflective of "History" but that the writers used the Old Testament to craft a brilliant narrative around the "Life of Jesus", and they knew how to use the OT and use such parallels to fit the Life of Jesus with the Narrative of Israel from the OT.

If one was very familiar with Homer, one would notice many similarities with the Gospel of Mark and the Works of Homer. My research on the history and literature from the Greek and Roman history, reveals that the writers drew heavy from Greek Philosophy and Greek Literature and drew heavily from the OT when it came to putting the story of Jesus to the paper.

For example, Logos was first introduced by Greek Philosophers, and Pythagoras was one of the first to use the word around c. 450 B.C.E. The writer of the Gospel of John used it to refer to Christ. Jesus and the Demoniac of the Gospel of Mark parallel with Odyessus' and Circe. One of the Parallels is that Odyessus men were turned into swine by Circe, and Jesus cast a legion of demons into swine. Odyessus leaves after the event, and Jesus leaves after the event. Odyessus gets the Cyclops to say his name is "Nobody" and Jesus gets the demons to say their name is "Legion" Nobody vs Many. The Cyclops is Nude and the possessed is Nude. Odysseus blinded the Cyclops and Jesus healed the man. In Mark, the formerly possessed man implored to go with Jesus and Jesus refused. The cyclops asked Odyessus to return and he refused. Jesus and Odyessus both departed on ships.

Having said all of this, there is a lot of influences when it comes to the Bible, from the OT and from Greek and Roman Culture and it is fascinating to see this. When you see the NT quotes the OT, look for parallels and ask the question, is why is Jesus being paralleled with these verses. If you are able, look at the greater influence of Greek and Roman culture, you will see a whole new world about the Bible and how Jesus is portrayed.
The words of Jesus were originally spread orally. The written Gospels supplemented the Torah readings that were read every week in the synagogue. They also followed those parts of the Torah that were read during festivals. Matthews gospel shows this clearly. After
the birth narrative there are five blocks of teaching that reflect the festival readings starting with Pentecost. At the end of each
there is a phrase such as ''He left that place'' or something similar . If you have a Bible with Jesus words in red this can be seen
quite clearly. This pattern was known for years and was thought to represent the Pentetuch but nobody could match them properly'
It was only when a theologian by the name of Michael Goulder discovered that the pattern matched the festivals that the mystery was solved.

The Jewish method of interpretation is used in the Gospels known as Midrash, plural-Midrashim) The literal meaning is taken and
with textual comparison the spiritual meaning is discovered. The Bible is a spiritual book that portrays Christ as the Messiah and
embodiment of the true Israel. It is the only book that can lead us to eternal life.

Your references may come as a shock to some but I am convinced that God is not restricted in where he leads people in obtaining
truth about himself. The similarities you quote found in Pagan literature is understandable. God is in control so it would not be difficult for him to plant stories in peoples cultures to prepare them for the ultimate truth. The Old Testament was written to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ but when he came he was rejected by the majority. As a Christian I use the Bible to test anything I read or hear.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,527
837
113
#13
It is all about understanding and understanding the word of God is faith. A divided people is like a land that is not prepared for sowing and the seed wouldn't give forth crop- in spiritual terms, it means the hearts of men don't understand the word of God.

Did you know that John the baptist's mandate was to prepare the hearts of men in readiness for the word of God? and thus it was said, he came solely to reconcile men:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the LORD. 6And he will turn the hearts of the fathers totheir children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers. Otherwise, I will come and strike the landwith a curse.”

This is what it means "prepare the way for our God.."

So, when Jesus says He brings divisions, He means people will be hearing but never perceiving, seeing but never understanding.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,021
6,553
113
#14
from the beginning He has brought division:

God saw that the light was good;
and God separated the light from the darkness.
(Genesis 1:4)

in the dark, from a distance, obscured by fog, to the cloudy eye, all things seem alike.
in the light, brought near, revealed, with clear sight, there is distinction.


Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
(Jeremiah 15:19)

He will purge the dross from the silver :)
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,501
6,039
113
73
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#15
That scripture Luke 12:51-53 always reminds me of a thing Jesus said:

Mark 6:4 "But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house."

I does not seem to matter to our families how we serve God. There will always be differences. You remind them of a snot nosed kid running around full of mischief. It is hard for them to take you seriously. Even when I was in the mission field running drug rehab homes, it is hard for them to think of God using you. Never did any of them fully accept the way I believed.


animated-no-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
#16
That scripture Luke 12:51-53 always reminds me of a thing Jesus said:

Mark 6:4 "But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house."

I does not seem to matter to our families how we serve God. There will always be differences. You remind them of a snot nosed kid running around full of mischief. It is hard for them to take you seriously. Even when I was in the mission field running drug rehab homes, it is hard for them to think of God using you. Never did any of them fully accept the way I believed.

View attachment 184389

Boy HOWDY! I can FULLY relate to your situation. Not so much the external things you've done. For it seems my time for doing those things are not come as yet. Or, I'm not "ready" to be of that "type" of "service." Or, both! Of that I'm unsure.

But, the spiritual battles and battlings? To be certain, I have lost friends and family, because of this. As God even caused me to be quite conservative, in my "politics!" As there are some things that are NON-Nonnegotiable! Least wise, for me! And, the longer, and higher I travel on this road, the more I "see" just how widely spread and how "deep" has gone the compromising OF God, OUT of the equation, with traditions of men! :cry:

Quite saddening, actually! With NO light, at the end of the tunnel, as yet!
 
Mar 23, 2016
3,194
778
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#17
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Jesus Christ gives His peace to the born again one.

Jesus said that His peace is not like the peace found in the world.

The peace found in the world is more or less a cessation of strife, distress, agitation for a time. But the peace offered by this world quickly fades when conflict arises.

The peace brought to the heart of the believer is beyond our comprehension and His peace allows us to have quiet tranquility and calmness in our hearts even in the midst of strife. The peace of Jesus Christ guards our hearts and minds (Phil 4:7).
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,109
340
83
#18
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Plain and simple that is the way it will be, but so be it, for Jesus had to bring salvation to the world, even though it would cause division between people, even family members.

Jesus wants peace on earth, and love thy neighbor as yourself, and follow peace with all men, with holiness, without which no person shall see the Lord.

But Jesus had to bring salvation to the world, and could not be avoided, so if it brings division among people, even dear family members, where they will fight with each other over whether it is true or not, then so be it, for Jesus had to bring salvation, and He was not going to abandon salvation because it would cause people to fight over whether it is true or not.

But it is like that with many things of the world that they fight among themselves over things, and the Bible already caused division among people, and the truth of it, before Jesus came to give salvation, but Jesus giving us salvation escalated the fighting among people more concerning God's word.

The Bible says children obey, and honor your parents, but children refusing to believe Jesus is the Savior of the world, and going against their parents who believe Jesus is the Savior, is not the children disobeying, and dishonoring their parents, and wives who believe, and husbands who do not, and husbands who believe, and the wife does not, does not mean they are not respecting each other, but they are only offending God if they do not agree to the truth.

So if they fight in a household of whether Jesus is salvation or not, has nothing to do with them disrespecting each other, but they are offending God if not in the truth, so they can still have peace with each other, but disagree on whether Jesus is salvation or not, or whether they believe the Bible or not, like they would disagree over what food they like, or what car they like, or anything else, although agreeing with the truth, and going against the truth, is a way more serious matter.

There will be fighting against the saints from the world, and some to a very high degree resulting in hurt, and loss of life, but I do not believe that when Jesus said there would be division among family members over whether Jesus is the Savior or not He is not speaking of a very serious fighting scenario, or of persecution, but speaking by words and disagreement, that does no harm to the individual in a physical manner.

Although it could result in a physical confrontation, although highly unlikely, with the exception of the beast kingdom, for they will not care about their family if they have taken the mark of the beast, for they will have the nature of a devil then for they cannot have salvation then, Jesus is mainly saying in family squabbles that does not result in anything serious, and not like the world that is not their family and friends that will come at them a whole lot harder at times.

This peace that is upset it would mostly be in a mild manner, maybe a little escalated, but not like dealing with the world concerning the truth or not, at least for the very most part, for it could result in them not talking to each other, but not wanting to persecute each other physically over their difference, for how many people in family's go against each other in a harsh way over a difference than the world, for a family member would be more tolerant with more love to let it slide compared to the world, for you can call your brother an idiot and most likely get away with it, but not so much in the world.

So this peace that is upset is not like the peace that is upset in the world over the difference of whether Jesus is the Savior or not, but mostly the peace being upset is on the part of the people that are against truth in the world, but some made the mistake in the past that called themselves Christians of evening out the odds and fighting back physically, which they were not supposed to do, for if there is any peace to be upset it should always be on the part of the world if the saint abides in the truth, for we are to follow peace regardless of how people act towards us, and we are supposed to know when to shut our mouth so it does not come to a non peaceful situation.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
#19
That scripture Luke 12:51-53 always reminds me of a thing Jesus said:

Mark 6:4 "But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house."

I does not seem to matter to our families how we serve God. There will always be differences. You remind them of a snot nosed kid running around full of mischief. It is hard for them to take you seriously. Even when I was in the mission field running drug rehab homes, it is hard for them to think of God using you. Never did any of them fully accept the way I believed.

View attachment 184389
if this doesn't discourage your witness, or fear of being seen as bad witness, wow! power to you.
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,266
10,666
113
#20
As with all scripture, it is applicable to us all, as many have said, even today we have families broke up because of believers, who love then and share the gospel wih them. And insome countries, people will turn in christians for fear of their life, which many of us probably have never had to fear.

But in context, jesus speaks of last days, when presty much everyone will have to fear being turn d in even by familiy members, the war betweem god and satan will climax, because satan knows his time is short, so it becomes worse then we have ever seen,