Please give me your input!?

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Oct 8, 2018
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“I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares the Lord God. I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them in justice.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭34:15-16‬ ‭

In Oh so many simple ways the God shares with us he is who he has sent. He is the Holy one of Israel. He will redeem Israel 🙏 thank you all for your input. Now can all we come together as the holy city and lift his name up High! Thank you Jesus.
Amein brother :)
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Ah I see. You know, I think once a upon a time, I thought the same. Why? Probably because I was context with what I knew and I was safe and anything too "extreme" was too much. Also, most of the time, power and knowledge in the wrong hands can cause a mess and Kabbalah can do that.

Gematria, for example, is an easy place to start (relatively) because using Hebrew and the values are given, spell impeccable truth. Or look at the letter "yod" and how G-d made it and how it is the start of many Holy names, include G-d and Yeshua. There is so much behind that, and it can teach deeper morals. But of course, used poorly = chaos. That goes for anything good. So is the object impure or how we use it? Just like Cain, he was not wrong in advancing technology at his time, but how he used it and it leads to pride and his own destruction.

I won't try and convenience you, but maybe in time, you'll see its power. For example, understanding the soul and the heavens is necessary to know "how" exactly we connect with G-d. Or why if you put all the lefts of G-d's name on top of each other, it forms a human being and what that means in relativity to, being created in His image.

It also will help understand the book of Revelation 1000x better LOL.
Well I did listen to the video you supplied by Ariel Cohen Alloco but could not understand him. I also noticed he was talking about Exodus 23:20 which I already have marked in my Bible. As an interesting side note the first part of the verse says, "Behold, I am going to send "AN" angel before you to guard you along the way." Like I said earlier the angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ but to the Jews (and I have debated a few them on this subject) they say the angel of the Lord is just that, an angel and not the preincarnate Jesus Christ.

They base their opinion on that one word "an or it could even be "a." But here is the point I am trying to make. There is a difference between the words "an or a" and the word "the." Now bear with me because this is interesting. When one uses the word "an or a" it can refer to any angel. When you use the word "the" it means a specific angel that has already be mentioned or identified.

A good example from Matthew 1:1 is vs20. But when he had considered this, behold, "AN" angel of the Lord appeared to him." And btw, "THE" angel of the Lord, i.e Jesus Christ never appears in the NT as the angel of the Lord." An even better example is at Acts 7 when Stephe is reading the riot act to the Jews. Notice at vs30 he says, "And after 40 years passed AN angel appeared to him (referring to Moses). This is still the angel of the Lord because of what Stephen says at vs38, "This is the one who was in the congrefation in the wilderness together with THE ANGEL who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai." It was the Lord speaking to Moses back at Exodus 19. I hope I'm not boring you.

Now to get back to Rav Ginsburg who believe it or not is the same age as me. He is an accomplished person in many areas of his life but I could not find anywhere that he believed Jesus Christ was the Messiah. If you can show me fine, but from what I read I don't think so. Do you know this guy?
I'll stop for now. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Oct 7, 2018
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i dont remember Jesus teaching on a seat for the Spirit.
Doesn’t the spirit belong to God. So when it returns, it returns to the one it belongs. The infinite God who can infinitely send his spirit in one whisper
 
Oct 8, 2018
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Well I did listen to the video you supplied by Ariel Cohen Alloco but could not understand him. I also noticed he was talking about Exodus 23:20 which I already have marked in my Bible. As an interesting side note the first part of the verse says, "Behold, I am going to send "AN" angel before you to guard you along the way." Like I said earlier the angel of the Lord is Jesus Christ but to the Jews (and I have debated a few them on this subject) they say the angel of the Lord is just that, an angel and not the preincarnate Jesus Christ.

They base their opinion on that one word "an or it could even be "a." But here is the point I am trying to make. There is a difference between the words "an or a" and the word "the." Now bear with me because this is interesting. When one uses the word "an or a" it can refer to any angel. When you use the word "the" it means a specific angel that has already be mentioned or identified.

A good example from Matthew 1:1 is vs20. But when he had considered this, behold, "AN" angel of the Lord appeared to him." And btw, "THE" angel of the Lord, i.e Jesus Christ never appears in the NT as the angel of the Lord." An even better example is at Acts 7 when Stephe is reading the riot act to the Jews. Notice at vs30 he says, "And after 40 years passed AN angel appeared to him (referring to Moses). This is still the angel of the Lord because of what Stephen says at vs38, "This is the one who was in the congrefation in the wilderness together with THE ANGEL who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai." It was the Lord speaking to Moses back at Exodus 19. I hope I'm not boring you.

Now to get back to Rav Ginsburg who believe it or not is the same age as me. He is an accomplished person in many areas of his life but I could not find anywhere that he believed Jesus Christ was the Messiah. If you can show me fine, but from what I read I don't think so. Do you know this guy?
I'll stop for now. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Ah I see. Ummm what debate did you have with what type of Jews? Any real Jew knows that Hebrew doesn’t have “a” or “an” in the language and anyone arguing an English translation...well you can make any theology from because English carries at most 1/3 of what the Hebrew Language can, let alone the intricacies of G-d’s Torah.

I’m not saying you are wrong and the argument is a good one but remember, the soul of the Mashiach is higher than all Angels. Mashiach is the master of legions and angels!

As for Ariel, you can learn a lot only if you understand him. Trust me even I get lost at times lol.

Rav Ginsburgh will NOT bluntly state it or make it obvious. You have to understand that being a Jew can literally in this age cost you your life for believing Yeshua. But even more, just to say “I believe in him” has no value when the immediate answer is “rejection, now leave our people” and you are exiled. Jews must be “prepared”. 2,000 years of persecution and most recently the holocaust in the name of “Jesus” would do this to any people.

It is different with Jews than with Gentiles. For now that it is but the Jews I know are working on it! I hope you can understand. It more intricate than a simple literate translation of Yeshua’s words.

As for Rav Gudri yup. Ariel has a video on his letter.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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ok, but then we have just a few sentences later Jesus applying the exact same phrase with believers and Jesus even says its the same. yet your telling me its not the same, it means one thing here (becouse it supports a manmade doctrine, then it means something else over here.
sorry but its not a wise way to interpert scripture, it makes you look like you have no credibility.



me and my co worker can be one in purpose, it has nothing to do with anything.


Jesus answers that:
36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

He says "SON OF" the Most High. but you want to remove the "Son of" part and re write it as if Jesus is claiming to be the Most High which is not what the scripture says.
Except in hebrews where the father has exaulted the son above himself.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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There is a name for this doctrine.

The trinity is solid

The " God is in everything" viewpoint leads to your comment " why limit him to 3 entities "heresy
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Ah I see. Ummm what debate did you have with what type of Jews? Any real Jew knows that Hebrew doesn’t have “a” or “an” in the language and anyone arguing an English translation...well you can make any theology from because English carries at most 1/3 of what the Hebrew Language can, let alone the intricacies of G-d’s Torah.

I’m not saying you are wrong and the argument is a good one but remember, the soul of the Mashiach is higher than all Angels. Mashiach is the master of legions and angels!

As for Ariel, you can learn a lot only if you understand him. Trust me even I get lost at times lol.

Rav Ginsburgh will NOT bluntly state it or make it obvious. You have to understand that being a Jew can literally in this age cost you your life for believing Yeshua. But even more, just to say “I believe in him” has no value when the immediate answer is “rejection, now leave our people” and you are exiled. Jews must be “prepared”. 2,000 years of persecution and most recently the holocaust in the name of “Jesus” would do this to any people.

It is different with Jews than with Gentiles. For now that it is but the Jews I know are working on it! I hope you can understand. It more intricate than a simple literate translation of Yeshua’s words.

As for Rav Gudri yup. Ariel has a video on his letter.
The Jewish guy I debated (who btw knows Hebrew) never told me that "a" or "an" are not in their language. Even so the way they get out of it is by using the "Shaliah principle" or "The Law of Agency." In this case the angel of the Lord is the agent for God and the agent is fully empowered to represent the "principal" which in this case is God Almighty. So the agent is speaking on behalf of God.

I should also state that the Hebrew word for "angel" is "malak." This word can mean an actual angel like Michael or Gabriel. It can also mean "messenger." Now, indeed angels are messengers but how the word is used depends on the context on how it is to be used. The angel of the Lord who is the preincarnate Jesus Christ is a messenger and not an actual angel.

For example it says at Malachi 3:1, "Behold I am going to send My angel/messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the angel/messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

Mark 1:2-3 says this? "As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, Behold, I send My angel/messenger before your face, who will prepare Your way; vs3, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make read the way of the Lord." Well as it turns out it wan not an angel who prepared the way of the Lord, but a messenger who was John the Baptist and he ain't no angel. So like I said, it depends on how the word malak is used in its context.

Now, getting back to Malachi 3:1, (And btw, Malachi who wrote the book well his name is derived from the word "malak" and Malachi is of course a human being). In vs1, who do you think is the Lord who will come to His temple? And who do you think is the angel/messenger of the covenant, in whom we will delight who is coming, says the Lord of hosts?" And where in the OT was the covenant made and what did the covenant say? Any ideas mountaindude? I also have "killer" proof that the angel of the Lord is God that I would love to share with you that puts the Jews back on their heels.

And as a side note regarding the Hebrew letters and the kabalah with its mysticism and when you said one can gain a deep understanding etc. How do you know by using these methods or studying them makes you any closer to God or more spiritual by attaining greater levels in connecting with God? My point is the fact you and neither do I know the operation of one's mind or heart, only God knows. The point I am making is what the Apostel Paul stated at 2 Corinthians 10:12, "For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves, and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding." :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
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The Jewish guy I debated (who btw knows Hebrew) never told me that "a" or "an" are not in their language. Even so the way they get out of it is by using the "Shaliah principle" or "The Law of Agency." In this case the angel of the Lord is the agent for God and the agent is fully empowered to represent the "principal" which in this case is God Almighty. So the agent is speaking on behalf of God.

I should also state that the Hebrew word for "angel" is "malak." This word can mean an actual angel like Michael or Gabriel. It can also mean "messenger." Now, indeed angels are messengers but how the word is used depends on the context on how it is to be used. The angel of the Lord who is the preincarnate Jesus Christ is a messenger and not an actual angel.

For example it says at Malachi 3:1, "Behold I am going to send My angel/messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the angel/messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

Mark 1:2-3 says this? "As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, Behold, I send My angel/messenger before your face, who will prepare Your way; vs3, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make read the way of the Lord." Well as it turns out it wan not an angel who prepared the way of the Lord, but a messenger who was John the Baptist and he ain't no angel. So like I said, it depends on how the word malak is used in its context.

Now, getting back to Malachi 3:1, (And btw, Malachi who wrote the book well his name is derived from the word "malak" and Malachi is of course a human being). In vs1, who do you think is the Lord who will come to His temple? And who do you think is the angel/messenger of the covenant, in whom we will delight who is coming, says the Lord of hosts?" And where in the OT was the covenant made and what did the covenant say? Any ideas mountaindude? I also have "killer" proof that the angel of the Lord is God that I would love to share with you that puts the Jews back on their heels.

And as a side note regarding the Hebrew letters and the kabalah with its mysticism and when you said one can gain a deep understanding etc. How do you know by using these methods or studying them makes you any closer to God or more spiritual by attaining greater levels in connecting with God? My point is the fact you and neither do I know the operation of one's mind or heart, only God knows. The point I am making is what the Apostel Paul stated at 2 Corinthians 10:12, "For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves, and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding." :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Hey good evening! :)

I agree 100%! :)

But yes Kabbalah DOESN'T make anyone closer. No law or wisdom of even the knowledge of Yeshua means anything.....if the attitude and heart are not in the right place. Does that take away that amazing depths that Kabbalah or even Yeshua's words have? No. You can be a simple loving Believer and sacrifice your self endlessly without knowing a "lick" of scripture. But just like the 12 tribes were organized (just like the Body of Mashiach), each tribe has a different role. So to say one knows more than another or one is less significant than the other = pride (period!). I need bread and a farmer, just as much as I need my mom and I need my sight just as much as I need a University degree. I am just stating in the realm of "wisdom" or "deeper insight" (because G-d is infinite), Kabbalah pushes the bounderies very far, but first one must master his love and righteousness! :)

I hope that makes sense. I agree with you! :)
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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Except in hebrews where the father has exaulted the son above himself.
i dont think Hebrews says the Son is above the Father.
but you do have Jesus teaching very plainly that the Father is above the Son.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I find conjugating G-d and Christ helps in understanding their combined and separate existence in scriptures;.

G-d always existed...Christ did not.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother......G-d was not.
Christ gave His life on the cross to save all humanity...G-d did not.
Christ arose from the dead....G-d did not.
Christ sent us the HS as The Comforter...G-d did not.
Christ ascended into Heaven...G-d did not.
G-d knows the date of Christs' 2nd advent....... Christ does not.

Another summary;



Conclusion;
G-d and Christ are one.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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i dont think Hebrews says the Son is above the Father.
but you do have Jesus teaching very plainly that the Father is above the Son.
It says it.
But think whatever you like.

Not to mention it is Jesus,not the Father that sits on the throne of David in the new Jerusalem.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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I find conjugating G-d and Christ helps in understanding their combined and separate existence in scriptures;.

G-d always existed...Christ did not.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother......G-d was not.
Christ gave His life on the cross to save all humanity...G-d did not.
Christ arose from the dead....G-d did not.
Christ sent us the HS as The Comforter...G-d did not.
Christ ascended into Heaven...G-d did not.
G-d knows the date of Christs' 2nd advent....... Christ does not.

Another summary;



Conclusion;
G-d and Christ are one.
Woah.
You need a SERIOUS bible study on Jesus as CREATOR.
THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN FAITH HINGES ON WHO THE CREATOR IS.
All the cults do what you just did.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Woah.
You need a SERIOUS bible study on Jesus as CREATOR.
THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN FAITH HINGES ON WHO THE CREATOR IS.
All the cults do what you just did.
Please show me?
Keep it in context...earthly...vs....spiritually.
There is no question who The Creator is.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,761
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Please show me?
Keep it in context...earthly...vs....spiritually.
There is no question who The Creator is.
Well preston, how about John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 3:14. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
482
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It says it.
But think whatever you like.

Not to mention it is Jesus,not the Father that sits on the throne of David in the new Jerusalem.
So according to you the Son is above the Father?
 
Oct 7, 2018
68
39
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I find conjugating G-d and Christ helps in understanding their combined and separate existence in scriptures;.

G-d always existed...Christ did not.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother......G-d was not.
Christ gave His life on the cross to save all humanity...G-d did not.
Christ arose from the dead....G-d did not.
Christ sent us the HS as The Comforter...G-d did not.
Christ ascended into Heaven...G-d did not.
G-d knows the date of Christs' 2nd advent....... Christ does not.

Another summary;



Conclusion;
G-d and Christ are one.
“And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭
 
Oct 7, 2018
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Input: like I previously stated I have only read bits and pieces. If the disciple of the Bible were not to watch their words carefully they would surely die before the gospel was preached, believed and recorded. Today, in my country as a disciple of Jesus... I can clearly say from the comfort of my home, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is Jesus? The word was created by God, but only through his Holy Spirit. Now we who have accepted Christ as he should be have the Holy Spirit to help us. Which would be why we must form a relation with Jesus/the Holy Spirit.... His word, Our God.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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So according to you the Son is above the Father?
The Father has exaulted the Son.
In Hebrews the father speaking says ' thy throne o God is forever and ever"
Jesus will sit and rule from David's re established throne. It pleases the father to exault the Son.