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G
I wish I could go into detail but cannot remember the teaching specifics I once heard, it goes something like this.....when Paul wrote about "The Last Trump" he was conversing to the people in their understanding in those days and they understood exactly what he was talking about. Seeing as Revelation was not written he would have explained more on what the last trump meant if it meant something else. The people of the day had different festivals and trumpets would be blown to mark these events in groups of three (cannot remember how the order worked) the last trump would mark the end of that festival.....very hard for me to write this explanation and it is 05:15...been up all night.
There is no seventh trumpet, but there are seven trumpets. The trumpets in revelation are not numbered.
But there are seven angels, the seventh angel sounding the last trumpet.
Please watch this about trumpets
the trumpets of God - YouTube
please let me know what you think.
But there are seven angels, the seventh angel sounding the last trumpet.
Please watch this about trumpets
the trumpets of God - YouTube
please let me know what you think.
A
I do not believe that the "last trump" which shall sound at the return of Jesus (1 Thess.4:14-19; 1 Cor.15:51-52) has anything to do with the the seven trumpets of Revelation 8,9, and 11. The first four trumpets were judgments that fell upon Pagan Rome at the hand of the barbarian tribes and which brought about its downfall in A.D.476. The fifth and sixth trumpets were judgments that fell upon Papal Rome at the hand of the Turks between 1299 and 1840. The seventh trumpet will be the judgments that will fall upon Babylon the Great after the close of probation.
The seventh trumpet corresponds to the "third woe" mentioned in Revelation 11:14. Verses 15 to 19 clearly show that the seventh trumpet signals the passing of Jesus from the holy to the most holy place in the sanctuary above to receive His kingdom. Revelation 10:7 mentions the fact that when the voice of the seventh angel (seventh trumpet) shall begin to sound the mystery of God should be finished and the mystery of God is "Christ in you the hope of glory" (Col.1:27) which simply means that as soon as the character of Christ shall be fully reproduced in His people then probation will close and the judgments of God will fall in earnest upon Babylon the Great. Therefore the seventh trumpet began to sound on October 22,1844 with the beginning of the investigative judgment of the dead in Christ (Rev.11:15-19) which would have soon been followed by the judgment of the living if the mission of the Gospel (finishing of the mystery of God within the believers) had been completed but it wasn't on account of unbelief on the part of God's people. (The Great Controversy,457-8).
There has been a long delay.
We are living in the time of the fulfillment of the seventh trumpet. Before the judgments of God--seven last plagues--fall upon Babylon the Great the mystery of God is to be finished and as we have seen the mystery of God is Christ in you the hope of gloly which simply means that during the latter rain and loud cry of the third angel's message the people of God will grow up into Christ until the full corn of His character shall be formed within. (Mark 4:24-28) (Testimonies, Vol.1,354). Once this is accomplished the people of God will face the great final test (death decree) coinciding with the judgment of the living which will accomplish the final separation between the wise and the foolish, the wheat and the tares, the good and the bad, and their destiny will be forever fixed.
This event will be followed by the seven last plagues which means that Satan will have entire control of the finally impenitent and during that time the people of God will go through the time of Jacob's trouble to be delivered from their enemies at the time of the fifth plague (who will be attempting to execute the death decree upon them) when they shall hear the voice of God telling them the day and the hour of Christ's return and after the seventh plague the dead in Christ will be raised from their graves at the sound of the the trumpet of God as Jesus shall return to the earth to take His people home.
The seventh trumpet corresponds to the "third woe" mentioned in Revelation 11:14. Verses 15 to 19 clearly show that the seventh trumpet signals the passing of Jesus from the holy to the most holy place in the sanctuary above to receive His kingdom. Revelation 10:7 mentions the fact that when the voice of the seventh angel (seventh trumpet) shall begin to sound the mystery of God should be finished and the mystery of God is "Christ in you the hope of glory" (Col.1:27) which simply means that as soon as the character of Christ shall be fully reproduced in His people then probation will close and the judgments of God will fall in earnest upon Babylon the Great. Therefore the seventh trumpet began to sound on October 22,1844 with the beginning of the investigative judgment of the dead in Christ (Rev.11:15-19) which would have soon been followed by the judgment of the living if the mission of the Gospel (finishing of the mystery of God within the believers) had been completed but it wasn't on account of unbelief on the part of God's people. (The Great Controversy,457-8).
There has been a long delay.
We are living in the time of the fulfillment of the seventh trumpet. Before the judgments of God--seven last plagues--fall upon Babylon the Great the mystery of God is to be finished and as we have seen the mystery of God is Christ in you the hope of gloly which simply means that during the latter rain and loud cry of the third angel's message the people of God will grow up into Christ until the full corn of His character shall be formed within. (Mark 4:24-28) (Testimonies, Vol.1,354). Once this is accomplished the people of God will face the great final test (death decree) coinciding with the judgment of the living which will accomplish the final separation between the wise and the foolish, the wheat and the tares, the good and the bad, and their destiny will be forever fixed.
This event will be followed by the seven last plagues which means that Satan will have entire control of the finally impenitent and during that time the people of God will go through the time of Jacob's trouble to be delivered from their enemies at the time of the fifth plague (who will be attempting to execute the death decree upon them) when they shall hear the voice of God telling them the day and the hour of Christ's return and after the seventh plague the dead in Christ will be raised from their graves at the sound of the the trumpet of God as Jesus shall return to the earth to take His people home.
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R
this is pretty much all wrong...
anyone who has read about the seven trumpets in revelation can see that they are -obviously- not about the germanic tribes and turks invading rome...
your interpretation of the seventh trumpet is worst of all...hebrews 9 shows that christ has -already- entered the holy of holies with his blood...this does not happen at the time of the seventh trumpet and certainly not in 1844...
the 1844 belief is a false prophecy that the adventists still refuse to repent of...
the mystery of 'christ in you the hope of glory' is not waiting until some future time...it is already fulfilled by the indwelling in every believer...
finally the bible clearly says that nobody can know the day or the hour of christ's return...jesus explained that not even he knows...so your notion that God's people will hear the voice of christ telling them the day and hour of his return is false...
but this is a good example of the unmitigated exegetical -mess- made by ellen white's spirit of confusion...
we are very likely not even past the seventh seal yet...let alone any of the trumpets...
anyone who has read about the seven trumpets in revelation can see that they are -obviously- not about the germanic tribes and turks invading rome...
your interpretation of the seventh trumpet is worst of all...hebrews 9 shows that christ has -already- entered the holy of holies with his blood...this does not happen at the time of the seventh trumpet and certainly not in 1844...
the 1844 belief is a false prophecy that the adventists still refuse to repent of...
the mystery of 'christ in you the hope of glory' is not waiting until some future time...it is already fulfilled by the indwelling in every believer...
finally the bible clearly says that nobody can know the day or the hour of christ's return...jesus explained that not even he knows...so your notion that God's people will hear the voice of christ telling them the day and hour of his return is false...
but this is a good example of the unmitigated exegetical -mess- made by ellen white's spirit of confusion...
we are very likely not even past the seventh seal yet...let alone any of the trumpets...
Because He went through it and we know His people are going to go through it (Zech 13). His people (The remnant 1/3 of Israel who finally come to accept the Messiah) are a key part of the Olive Tree. Christ is the root, the Jewish believers are the branches and the Jewish unbelievers were ripped out so that the Gentile Church could be grafted in (Please study Romans 11). The Gentile Church was grafted in to make the Jewish people jealous to help lead them back to the Lord. The Gentile Church is not going to be ripped out of the Olive Tree. That would be contrary to all of Paul's teachings. To GRA, the 7th Trumpet is the beginning of the Day of the Lord but it isn't the Day Jesus returns. (Remember a Day is as 1,000 years). He returns sometime between the 6th and 7th Bowl for Armageddon. All the Bowl judgments are part of the Day of the Lord thus part of the 7th trumpet. This finally all came together for me. It would take a lot of explaining but this is the only conclusion that doesn't conflict with other scripture. The Lord CANNOT return at the 7th Trumpet because God has not made His enemies His footstool. If you read the passages in Revelation about the 7th trumpet they don't say Christ returns then, they say His kingdom "has been declared in heaven."
G
The dead, those who will be judged and cast into the Lake of Fire, do not get raised at this last trump, they are still waiting in their graves for judgment to come during the Great White Throne Judgment whereas we who are His WILL be judged, too, but it will be at the Bema Seat.
These TWO trumps--the '7th trumpet' and the 'last trump'-- are the SAME trump and are going to signal that Christ is coming from the sky with the souls of the saints as the dead in Christ are raised first and THEN those one Earth who have claimed Him as personal Saviour and Lord God of their life will go up, next. Blip. It will happen quick, too, like a rapture
Take note, the TIME between the last trump and Christ's return will happen in 11/16ths of a second--the blink of an eye.
These TWO trumps--the '7th trumpet' and the 'last trump'-- are the SAME trump and are going to signal that Christ is coming from the sky with the souls of the saints as the dead in Christ are raised first and THEN those one Earth who have claimed Him as personal Saviour and Lord God of their life will go up, next. Blip. It will happen quick, too, like a rapture
Take note, the TIME between the last trump and Christ's return will happen in 11/16ths of a second--the blink of an eye.
M
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TWO SETS OF TRUMPETS - FOR GENTILE & JEW[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are two sets of TRUMPETS in the Bible. One set is found in Revelation 8:6 and it has to do with the plagues turned loose on the Jews during the Tribulation Period. But the Great Trumpet for the Bride has to do with the Last Trumpet spoken in 1st Corinthians 15:51-52 & 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 both referring to the rapture:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CORINTHIANS 15:51-53:
¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 -
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are two sets of TRUMPETS in the Bible. One set is found in Revelation 8:6 and it has to do with the plagues turned loose on the Jews during the Tribulation Period. But the Great Trumpet for the Bride has to do with the Last Trumpet spoken in 1st Corinthians 15:51-52 & 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 both referring to the rapture:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CORINTHIANS 15:51-53:
¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 -
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”[/FONT]
M
7TH TRUMPET – THE COMING OF MOSES AND ELIJAH BACK TO ISRAEL TO RESTORE THE 144,000 JEWS BACK TO THE GOSPEL[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]REVELATION 11:3-14
3 ¶ And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The SECOND WOE is past; [and], behold, the THIRD WOE cometh quickly.
This event is the coming of Moses and Elijah back to Israel to call out the 144,000 Jews (25,000 from each of the 12 tribes) back to the Atonement - Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.This seventh trumpet will sound during the Great tribulation Period. Notice that the second woe (World War 2) is past, and behold the third woe (World War 3) cometh quickly. It is a time between now and the Great Tribulation period. This event will transpire after the Bride is gone in the rapture and the Tribulation period sets in so that the 144,000 Jews will be called by these two prophets. They will all be purged by the AntiChrist Beast of Rome for their martyrdom. The great earthquake will also take place during this time and will cause the Mount of Olives to be pushed up by a volcanic eruption so that the Temple of the Lord can be established on top of that mountain comes the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ and His Bride.[/FONT]
3 ¶ And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The SECOND WOE is past; [and], behold, the THIRD WOE cometh quickly.
This event is the coming of Moses and Elijah back to Israel to call out the 144,000 Jews (25,000 from each of the 12 tribes) back to the Atonement - Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.This seventh trumpet will sound during the Great tribulation Period. Notice that the second woe (World War 2) is past, and behold the third woe (World War 3) cometh quickly. It is a time between now and the Great Tribulation period. This event will transpire after the Bride is gone in the rapture and the Tribulation period sets in so that the 144,000 Jews will be called by these two prophets. They will all be purged by the AntiChrist Beast of Rome for their martyrdom. The great earthquake will also take place during this time and will cause the Mount of Olives to be pushed up by a volcanic eruption so that the Temple of the Lord can be established on top of that mountain comes the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ and His Bride.[/FONT]
G
Either you did not say this right or you have misunderstood something somewhere...
The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and, the first literal day of those 1000 years. Which it is depends on context in scripture.
Jesus returns - and the 7th trumpet sounds - on that first literal day. His return is precisely what defines the 'Day of the Lord'.
The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and, the first literal day of those 1000 years. Which it is depends on context in scripture.
Jesus returns - and the 7th trumpet sounds - on that first literal day. His return is precisely what defines the 'Day of the Lord'.
Either you did not say this right or you have misunderstood something somewhere...
The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and, the first literal day of those 1000 years. Which it is depends on context in scripture.
Jesus returns - and the 7th trumpet sounds - on that first literal day. His return is precisely what defines the 'Day of the Lord'.
The 'Day of the Lord' is both - 1000 years - and, the first literal day of those 1000 years. Which it is depends on context in scripture.
Jesus returns - and the 7th trumpet sounds - on that first literal day. His return is precisely what defines the 'Day of the Lord'.
Here is the 7th trumpet passage from Rev 11 below. I included verse 12 which refers to the 2 witnesses being called to heaven. You can see that their enemies saw them. These are the same enemies as the Lord's enemies so these enemies are still present at the start of the 7th trumpet.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.
13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
Do you see any description of the Lord actually returning to earth in the above verses? I don't. Keep in mind that time is a dimension. It has no definition in space which is where heaven is likely located. So to God one earth day can be 1,000 years and vice versa.
Let's study what we are told is happening during the 7th trumpet:
1. The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and Christ - Declared in Heaven
2. He (Christ) shall reign forever and ever
3. The 24 elders fell on their face and worshiped God
4. The 24 elders gave thanks to the one who is, was, and is to come because He has taken His great power and reigned
5. Nations were angry And Your wrath has come
6. And the time of the dead, that they should be judged
7. That God would reward His servants, the prophets and saints and those who fear God's name both small and great
8. And should destroy those who destroy the earth
9. The Temple of God in heaven was opened and the Art of the Covenant was seen.
10. There were lightnings, noises, thunderings, and earthquake, and great hail.
Those are a lot of events for one single earth day. Yet, all these things are associated with the 7th trumpet. Let's dig deeper on some of these.
3. The 24 elders fell on their face and worshiped God. These same 24 elders fall down and worship Him again in Rev 19:4
5. Nations were angry And Your wrath has come. We know that God's Wrath are the 7 Bowls. Therefore the wrath is not completed until the 7 bowls are poured out.
6. And the time of the dead, that they should be judged. The dead unbeliever is not judged until the end of the millennial reign. 7. That God would reward His servants, the prophets and saints and those who fear God's name both small and great. This same scene is repeated in Rev 19:58. And should destroy those who destroy the earth. We know they are not destroyed until after Armageddon. There is no other battle after the 6th trumpet until Armageddon at the 7th Bowl.
10. There were lightnings, noises, thunderings, and earthquake, and great hail. - This ties exactly to the description of the 7th Bowl which is poured into the Air - The Air from where Jesus comes.
We know from Rev 1:10 that John was in spirit in heaven on the "Lords Day."