(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 10 62.5%
  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16
Mar 14, 2011
54,744
2,654
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#62
Well, I was going to respond to the subject, but after reading, I see that the question wasn't something someone was literally interested in. This was a misleading thread, and I just wanted to make my opinion known. No bother to reply, as you won't get a response. You should be ashamed of yourself. Next time, try and appear that you are even slightly interested in other people's thoughts.
It is sad that people do this. You think they are really interested to find out they really were not.. Just using a back door to push their view..
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#64
what i mean is, does God foreknow because He happens to have a crystal ball to see your future with, or because He made you and also all things for His purpose?

is God in charge of the universe or is He just really knowledgeable about it?
Why should it be one way or the other, can it not be both?
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,744
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#65
When I first was coming to Christ it seemed like I was making all the choices and doing all the work.

But when I looked back I realized I could never make that many SUPER good choices all in a row to lead myself to needing and wanting the Lord Jesus Christ.

But He still brought me to Himself in a way that wouldn't hurt my fragile feelings and belief in "free will".

Why did I start reading the bible in the first place?
Why did I feel compelled to start doing the things it said to do?
Why was I praying to the Lord Jesus Christ even before I knew He was God?


It's like Eternally Grateful said. We make the choice for Christ when we are weak. I would say we make the choice when there are no more choices to make. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only option available.

And even then I didn't understand the magnitude of what I would be given in Christ. I had to be shown what He does for us.
When I was a prodigal son, Although I still believed in God, and still knew and trusted in grace. I was angry, and also was caught up in some sin, and resisted the call to come back.
God actually once again brought me to my knees, I was ready to commit suicide. I was so broken, the only thing that stopped me was knowing my girls would be the ones to find me. I almost drove my car into a bridge, but chickened out.

When I was at my end, A friend whome I had led to christ when we were teens, out of the blue, called me and invited me to church, If he had called any time before that during that three years, I probably would have said no. But God took me down so deep. He knew the exact moment that I would CHOSE to say yes, I will come. I went to church with him that next week and have been back ever since.

I believe that is how God works, in drawing us to himself. He breaks us. If we are not broken, we will never chose, or if we even do, we chose our way (works, religion or some other way) it is when we are broken like the tax collector was. We actually call out. In weakness.

It seems we had similar introduction to God when we first met God..
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,744
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#66
"its completely up to us" has no votes?

I know some of you believe that. Just vote it.
I did not vote. I usually do not vote because usally non of the possible things to vote for I agree 100 %. Like this one..

Saying i just chose God I do not think is right. Because I did not just chose..
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,550
305
83
#69
God chose me because I'm such a great and awesome person....

No, that statement is definitely not true...

Truth is that God chose me even though I was nothing but a filthy sinner, a spot, a wrinkle, and a blemish. He chose me because I humbled down, listened, repented, and accepted him when he called, and he will do that for anyone. He is a loving and just God. He is no respecter of persons.

God sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of anyone who will believe in him and accept him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
5,259
248
63
#70
I did not vote. I usually do not vote because usally non of the possible things to vote for I agree 100 %. Like this one..

Saying i just chose God I do not think is right. Because I did not just chose..
God chose Jesus Christ as the means to eternal salvation. I heard and trusted the gospel of Jesus Christ and was placed in Christ, God's elect. God has chosen to grant me eternal life because I am in His Son.
 

CharliRenee

Humble Servant
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
1,612
1,328
113
#71
So you know, here's the better translation sis:

1Co 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

People love to use the translation that says " BUT BY HIS DOING "... yeah... it fits their theology. Whatever! They wanna claim God chose SOME to be saved while not giving the choice to others.
What translation is that bro? That is very different, huh?
 

CharliRenee

Humble Servant
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
1,612
1,328
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#72
Which people would question then, so you are claiming it is by the strength of Jesus in us then that saves us? Because you said it is "by his doing." So then the option of us doing it by our free choice alone is out of question.
I do think in our weakness, His strength is perfected. I think He wooes us all, that He offered and offers Himself to all, but not everyone chooses Him, unfortunately. His strength, we choose to accept or reject.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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#74
Well, I was going to respond to the subject, but after reading, I see that the question wasn't something someone was literally interested in. This was a misleading thread, and I just wanted to make my opinion known. No bother to reply, as you won't get a response. You should be ashamed of yourself. Next time, try and appear that you are even slightly interested in other people's thoughts.
I assume but can't guarantee you are referring to me. I don't care if you reply if that's how you feel.
I didnt bring it up to understand it because I know the answer, but many do not and asked me earlier. So I am starting a pill to get votes mainly to show this person who asked me what Christians and others believe about the subject, and that others can explain why they believe what they're answer is. Just because we ask a question doesn't mean we ask to gain knowledge for ourselves. Where's the shame in that supposed to be for? Have I sinned by such a thing?

Like I said, I cannot guarantee you are referring to me, but you sure sound like it.
 
Aug 12, 2013
306
63
28
#75
Mal 1: 1The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,

And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”

Thus says the Lord of hosts:

They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.
5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The Lord is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’


Here we see the context of Pauls quote of this passage in romans 9

God is not talking about two kids (jacob or Esau) he is talking to the nation of Israel about 1500 years after they had died.

God told Isreal. I love you
Israel asks back, but what about Esau (Edom)


Gods reply?

Jacob (You Israel) I have loved, But Esau (edom) I have hated (literally loved less)

If Malachi is not talking about two kids, Paul can not be talking about 2 kids. So to say in romans 9 God condemned Esau and saved or chose Jacob before they were born, would be taking the whole saying out of context. Not only this, There is no proof in Genesis Esau was even lost or will be in hell. Most likely he as well as his brother Jacob (who was acutally quite anrighteous dude his whole life) will most likely both be in heaven. And we will all be laughing at the conversation we re having now with them when we all meet.
So you agree that he does love some more than he does others. Got it. You stated that with the word "literally" so I'm taking you "literally. " country, person, animal, object, doesn't matter. He literally states he loves one more than the other. God has favoritism then. If I love America more than Africa, I favor America then. Same with Israel and Edom.
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,744
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#76
So you agree that he does love some more than he does others. Got it. You stated that with the word "literally" so I'm taking you "literally. " country, person, animal, object, doesn't matter. He literally states he loves one more than the other. God has favoritism then. If I love America more than Africa, I favor America then. Same with Israel and Edom.
So you agree with me God was not talking about two kids? And condemning one to hell and saving the other before they were born?
God chose Israel as a nation, so he had special plans for her. it would be normal for God to love them more than others. He also loves his children more than he loves the lost because he has a relationship with them. (Hard to have a special love fore someone you have no relationship with,

But he has NO love for one child over any other child as far as salvatin Goes. He wishes that NON should PERISH but ALL should come to ETERNAL LIFE>
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
519
113
#78
Yeah, I actually thought it was a legitimate person wanting to know.
There is no thing save for accusation by another that proves the OP was not sincere.
Perhaps rather than accuse the OP and others take that as a fact of the OP, you all who think the accuser is speaking truth should decide which one of you would actually ask the OP the direct question concerning their motives.

Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.


Discussions like this are revealing in there are those who claim they believe the Bible is God's inerrant eternal word of truth. But when a question like that in the OP arises, they disagree God's word means what it says.

First ask yourself the question.
Why did God let Lucifer live?
Only to cast him out of Heaven and down to earth where the first humans would encounter him in the garden. Not paradise garden because it contained a tree of forbidden fruit that would damn the entire human race once consumed. But the garden in Eden.
Why did God plant that tree there? And why did omni-present creator of it allow ha Satan to slither in, bringing with him the knowledge of the ultimatum God gave Adam concerning that one and only forbidden tree?


Job 1:7
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
 
Jul 31, 2013
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#79
IMHO?
Just because God knows the end, from the beginning? Doesn't mean that it is "His WILL", that it happens that way! :)

I don't recall God saying, like He had concerning other things?

Ezekiel 24
14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God.

Jeremiah 4
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

This is the reason, that just a wee bit of knowledge, in the wrong hands? CAN be a dangerous thing! As indeed, it has become!

Because, His children, have long since reconciled themselves, and CAVED in, to believing this end! And, living their whole christian lives in a cowardise fashion! Meaning? NO "Push back!" (as in) "I'm not going to war against powers and principalities, nor forces of darkness, nor spiritual wickedness in high places!" "NOTHING, I DO?" "Is going to change ANYTHING!" "It SEZ SO, in the back of the book!" "God sez, is going to be this way?" "SO BE IT!" "I'm just going to believe, and be RAPTURED!"

Doesn't that make these people, JUST AS COMPLICIT, with the ones whom they believe, are "the enemy?" :unsure::unsure:
imho,

sovereigntyfatalism
is kind of the same mistake as

grace lasciviousness
______________________:unsure: