Poll of polls on the longest running debate:
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neither is Grace a Doctrine!
in fact, enlighten yourself:
Why didn't Jesus ever teach or preach about grace if ... - Quora
https://www.quora.com › Why-didnt-Jesus-ever-teach-or-...
Jesus does not teach in his Gospel about grace, he taught righteousness, love, mercy, and repentance. In this, you are absolutely right. The lies were that the ...
11 answers · 3 votes: Jesus very clearly teaches about grace. • The parable of the lost son • The parable ...
Jesus did not teach salvation by grace
https://www.gracehq.com › foundations-of-grace › jesu...
Apr 12, 2017 — Jesus did not teach salvation by grace · Jesus taught under the Old Covenant Law of Moses · Reading the gospels with fresh eyes.
Yeshua NEVER taught the Doctrine of Grace!
so why would YOU if GOD did not?
Sacrilegious?
Pias?
Idol Worshiper?
why would you teach something that GOD, the Father DWELLING in Christ, NEVER TAUGHT?
in fact, enlighten yourself:
Why didn't Jesus ever teach or preach about grace if ... - Quora
https://www.quora.com › Why-didnt-Jesus-ever-teach-or-...
Jesus does not teach in his Gospel about grace, he taught righteousness, love, mercy, and repentance. In this, you are absolutely right. The lies were that the ...
11 answers · 3 votes: Jesus very clearly teaches about grace. • The parable of the lost son • The parable ...
Jesus did not teach salvation by grace
https://www.gracehq.com › foundations-of-grace › jesu...
Apr 12, 2017 — Jesus did not teach salvation by grace · Jesus taught under the Old Covenant Law of Moses · Reading the gospels with fresh eyes.
Yeshua NEVER taught the Doctrine of Grace!
so why would YOU if GOD did not?
Sacrilegious?
Pias?
Idol Worshiper?
why would you teach something that GOD, the Father DWELLING in Christ, NEVER TAUGHT?
wow man.
I mean wow.
Jesus is all about grace. John 3 - 6 is steeped in Grace.. He was against those who attempted to get through him by obedience to the law.. In fact the law itself shows it is unabtainable. Because it required perfection
Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word of this law. and the people shall say amen
I mean wow.
Jesus is all about grace. John 3 - 6 is steeped in Grace.. He was against those who attempted to get through him by obedience to the law.. In fact the law itself shows it is unabtainable. Because it required perfection
Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word of this law. and the people shall say amen
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thats funny. I teach what he taught
whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does nto believe is condemned already
One must be born again
Eat from the true bread of heaven and you will never die, never hunger or thirst. Will live forever have eternal life and be raised.
as moses lifted the serpent. so to must the son of man be lifted up (the cross) so whoever believes will never perish (die) but will live forever.
Thats grace 101. Jesus taught it..
whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does nto believe is condemned already
One must be born again
Eat from the true bread of heaven and you will never die, never hunger or thirst. Will live forever have eternal life and be raised.
as moses lifted the serpent. so to must the son of man be lifted up (the cross) so whoever believes will never perish (die) but will live forever.
Thats grace 101. Jesus taught it..
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Hmmmm?!! Interesting what I get accused of believing and not believing . . .
I think there is a verse that talks about falling from grace, isn't there?
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4)
Well, then, it is obviously possible to fall from grace - this group in Galatians did!
I think there is a verse that talks about falling from grace, isn't there?
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4)
Well, then, it is obviously possible to fall from grace - this group in Galatians did!
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Amen!
John 11
"Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?:
It's encouraging to see the percentage at the top.
The other evening, I was guessing under 50% forums total. At least those who voted in this thread, I was far off. I think that perhaps the number of works salvation advocates are just more vocal or participate more.
John 11
"Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?:
It's encouraging to see the percentage at the top.
The other evening, I was guessing under 50% forums total. At least those who voted in this thread, I was far off. I think that perhaps the number of works salvation advocates are just more vocal or participate more.
Not everyone who believes you can forfeit salvation believes you have to work to maintain a state of grace; Catholics believe that, but not everyone does. It just shows how you'd like to lump everyone into tidy little drawers; and it displays your ignorance.
I'm sorry if you're stuck in ignorance, but not everyone else has to be.
I'm sorry if you're stuck in ignorance, but not everyone else has to be.
their biggest problem are those who generally oppose them are not claiming a works program for Salvation. they have completely denied there is even FREE WILL to accept God when John 12 clearly state YOU MUST do this, which is a Command and REQUIRES our ACTION to do as such.
we totally believe in the GRACE of God which took place upon the Cross to cleanse our Sins.
but as we are REQUIRED to obey in Chapter 12 we can also later choose to STOP obeying.
and they believe one of two things here:
1. you cannot stop Believing
2. if you do GRACE is going to still COVER you even if you are at every Black Mass honoring Satan and Witchcraft.
it's completely out of touch with reality how these participants of the False Doctrine of Grace believe!
we totally believe in the GRACE of God which took place upon the Cross to cleanse our Sins.
but as we are REQUIRED to obey in Chapter 12 we can also later choose to STOP obeying.
and they believe one of two things here:
1. you cannot stop Believing
2. if you do GRACE is going to still COVER you even if you are at every Black Mass honoring Satan and Witchcraft.
it's completely out of touch with reality how these participants of the False Doctrine of Grace believe!
He said he leaves his flock to go find his lost sheep (those who have wandered away) and he said my sheep here my voice and they follow me
No goat was ever a sheep. And no sheep can ever revert back to a goat.
The unbelieving goat, as John said, was never of us, if they were of us, they never would have left..
You may claim your faith is in God. But how can it be? You claim you can personally lose that faith and change back into a goat.. In this instance, you are trusting your own ability to remain in the faith. not in Gods ability to keep you from falling. which he said he would never do.
No goat was ever a sheep. And no sheep can ever revert back to a goat.
The unbelieving goat, as John said, was never of us, if they were of us, they never would have left..
You may claim your faith is in God. But how can it be? You claim you can personally lose that faith and change back into a goat.. In this instance, you are trusting your own ability to remain in the faith. not in Gods ability to keep you from falling. which he said he would never do.
one thing to remember, works salvation is the largest religion in the world. It comes under many names (islam, muslim, judaism, catholicism, legalism, peganism etc etc) but it is the most prevelant.
Wide is the gate that leads to destruction. and narrow is the gate that leads to the promise land.
Wide is the gate that leads to destruction. and narrow is the gate that leads to the promise land.
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if you can forfiet salvation, or lose it. You must work to maintain it. It is foolish to sit there and claim your not trying to earn or work for something, when you claim you can lose it.
If it can be lost, it must be earned. You forfiet something when you do not meet the standard or guideline. If you can forfeit it, then you must work to make sure you meet those standards
If it can be lost, it must be earned. You forfiet something when you do not meet the standard or guideline. If you can forfeit it, then you must work to make sure you meet those standards
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Hi Wattie. Disagree, the word there is translated reprobate in other verses, and is clearly referring to loss of salvation. As I said, if the OSASers are right, then St. Paul the Apostle himself was not saved according to 1 Cor 9:27, which is clearly absurd.
Here is the verse again, in the KJV, 1 Cor 9:27; with the word in Greek subsequently:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
The Greek: "ἀδόκιμος (adokimos)"
In Rom 1:28, the same word ἀδόκιμον (adokimon) is used, and clearly refers to those who will not be saved: "28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate (adokimon) mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,"
Imo, the above verse is one of the Top Five Proofs in the Bible that OSAS is not true.
Arguably the strongest is Mat 18: A wicked servant, once justified, was later not saved. It clearly shows there is a difference between Initial Justification and Final Salvation, which is what OSAS denies and NON-OSASers maintain.
30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
The opinion that this refers to Jews who did not believe in Christ or something is another quite amazing OSAS dodge/evasion. Nope, it clearly refers to a servant first forgiven/justified by the Lord, but later lost for unforgiveness.
Jews who did not believe in Christ were never justified, so it does not refer. Moreover, the sin of the Pharisees etc was not unforgiveness per se but rather unbelief. So there are very clear signs it is not about them at all. It is about unforgiveness.
God Bless.
Here is the verse again, in the KJV, 1 Cor 9:27; with the word in Greek subsequently:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
The Greek: "ἀδόκιμος (adokimos)"
In Rom 1:28, the same word ἀδόκιμον (adokimon) is used, and clearly refers to those who will not be saved: "28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate (adokimon) mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,"
Imo, the above verse is one of the Top Five Proofs in the Bible that OSAS is not true.
Arguably the strongest is Mat 18: A wicked servant, once justified, was later not saved. It clearly shows there is a difference between Initial Justification and Final Salvation, which is what OSAS denies and NON-OSASers maintain.
30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
The opinion that this refers to Jews who did not believe in Christ or something is another quite amazing OSAS dodge/evasion. Nope, it clearly refers to a servant first forgiven/justified by the Lord, but later lost for unforgiveness.
Jews who did not believe in Christ were never justified, so it does not refer. Moreover, the sin of the Pharisees etc was not unforgiveness per se but rather unbelief. So there are very clear signs it is not about them at all. It is about unforgiveness.
God Bless.