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Are we eternally saved once we are "Born Again"?

  • No one can know until after their physical life is over.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
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Impossible for a true born again child of God to do what you say here.

I can’t unknow the Truth, because the Holy Spirit has been sealed in me.

We know those that you describe were never born again to begin with because of …..

1 John 2:19
King James Version

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
2 Peter Chapter 2

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,818
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,605
1,461
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Not.


Does.


Matthew 24:13
“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
That is in context of the tribulation period. And it epaks of enduring through tribulation. and in the end (when christ returns) being saved (physically)

If your doing something to keep from losing something. You are in effect trying to earn it.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,605
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By your reckoning... which is without scriptural basis, or even sound reasoning. You certainly aren't going to be saved if your faith doesn't endure, and we would not be told to endure if we had no part in it, even if your faith enduring is... by faith.
It is the work of God that we believe (jesus in John 6)
of your working to endure your faith of your own power. it is your work. thus in effect. Your working to keep your salvation.

It is not my reasoning. It is basic works 101

if your doing something to earn something, Your working for it. Period

It doesn't say they professed to believe, or that they were part of the church. It says their departure (not apostasia)made it clear they were not believers. You can be with a teacher of the gospel for some time, learning the doctrines and beliefs of the church before you decide you don't believe and "go out from them". If you depart from there, and go around to other churches denying Jesus trying to deceive people, guess what- that will reveal you didn't believe what they taught.
He said they were OF US.

You will twist it however you want. People do not become part of something unless they CLAIM to believe in the thing they are aprt of.

Not every apostate goes out from the church, though. and they don't all openly deny Jesus, and they don't necessarily go around as false teachers either. That is what these anti-christs were doing. You can see that is what he is talking about and not people that simply left the faith and went about minding their own business.
This is about those who become against christ who were once part of the church

I know many who have left. it brings pain in the church because you wonder.. Especially when someone goes and talks to them, and they say they do not believe anymore..

John is telling them they were never of us


Again, it's not a blanket statement. Even if someone who leaves the faith is an anti-christ: that's not what verse 19 is about. It's about specific people that were going around to deceive the church. THOSE people went out from the church (a physical departure not "apostasia"). THEIR departure made it clear they did not believe. That's all it says. He is talking about something that actually happened, he's not making a principle out of it.
Whatever. believe what you want..
There's nowhere in the bible where the apostles are like "HEY GUYS DON'T CONCERN YOURSELF ABOUT BELIEVEING IN JESUS, REMAINING IN CHRIST, DOING GOOD WORKS, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT! GOD DOES IT FOR YOU. Its not there.
Now you throw the old strawman arguement that all workers throw out. I never claimed it was about that.. You just will only see what you want to see. And thats fine.

My faith is in God. not in myself. if I start to trust myself to remain in the faith. someone better slap me a few times to wake me up. Because I am not trusting in God.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,605
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God died for everyone. Paul said in the end times there will be a great "Falling Away." to fall away and become Apostate means you have to have once been a Believer and Follower of God. God made no mistake here because His DEATH was for everyone. those who "Fall Away/become Apostate" do so because they CHOOSE to do it. how you can tie this to make it look like God made a mistake is proof that your Doctrine is full of ERROR. no one, especially myself, made any such claim that people who become Apostate is connected to God making an error. that is you conjecturing due to False Assumption.
in context. he said there will be a great falling away

we are witnessing this today. the church is dwindling, because there is a great falling away.

Paul did not say people would fall away (lose salvation) he said there would be a falling away.

context.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
4,605
1,461
113
why would i want to serve a God who does not let me live according to my Free Will? you must be a Robot!
does God stop you from sin? Does God stop you from becoming a prodigal son?

he does not stop your free will

but he also will not go back on his promise.

He said you will never die.. he will keep that promise..
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,501
3,116
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Great, now we can defect and keep our salvation. Sign me up for that!
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,801
798
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This is the same Greek word, 4972. sphragizó, that is used repeatedly in Revelation 5 to describe the seals that NO ONE could open or break.
It's also used for other seals besides the seven seals, because that's the greek word for "seal".
and NO ONE can break the seal that the Holy Spirit puts on a born again Child of God.
I think that's overreaching. The bible simply doesn't say that, and I don't think it's remotely implied either.
This is GOOD NEWS!!! Embrace it. Believe it.
I could say "Everyone that has ever lived is SAVED!!!" and that would sound like good news, right? But everybody knows that's not true, and if I said that everybody on here would refute that pretty quickly and think I had lost my mind completely.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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As I’ve stated earlier. God’s children are never referred to as pigs or dogs.

We’re sheep. He’s our Shepherd, and He NEVER fails to find His flock.

It’s erroneous thinking that these people herein 2 Peter, or in Hebrews 6, or 2 John 1:19, were EVER born again Children of God.
reread this again:
2 Peter Chapter 2

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

now, reread Verse 20
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

the only people WHO HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTION'S OF THE WORLD are those who are SAVED!

Peter is talking about SAVED People becoming apostate.

how can you say this is not about Believers when the only way to [[Escape the Pollution's]] is by being Saved!

Peter proves a true Believer can return back to their old ways and LOSE THEIR SALVATION!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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in context. he said there will be a great falling away

we are witnessing this today. the church is dwindling, because there is a great falling away.

Paul did not say people would fall away (lose salvation) he said there would be a falling away.

context.
in 1930 90% of Americans believed in God
according to Research Polls, TODAY, only 40% truly believe God is Real.

are you truly so BLIND by your False Doctrine that even true factual Evidence is not enough to WAKE YOU UP?
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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does God stop you from sin? Does God stop you from becoming a prodigal son?

he does not stop your free will

but he also will not go back on his promise.
i have never said God removes your Salvation but you can walk away from it.

DO YOU NOT EVEN READ WHAT I SAY BEFORE ACTUALLY REPLYING BACK WITH THE EXACT WORDS I HAVE BEEN ALREADY SAYING?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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through KNOWLEDGE

It says they KNOW the gospel. Just like Judas did.

They never acted on it and walked away.

it is far worse for them./ because they had salvation on their fingertips and let it go due to lack of faith.
WE ALL UNDERSTAND THROUGH KNOWLEDGE!

wow, you really are so caught up that you will take a portion of Scripture and twist it into your viewpoint. unbelievable!
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,801
798
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He said they were OF US.
He said they went out from us but were NOT of us.
WE ALL UNDERSTAND THROUGH KNOWLEDGE!
Yep, and not only that- it says they escaped the pollutions of the world; so I'm pretty sure that means they had a little more than head-knowledge. Just knowing the story of Jesus' crucifixion will not escape you from the pollutions of the world, you have to go farther than that.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,818
8,595
113
Nope. Nowhere does Peter say these dogs and pigs are saved. YOU inserted that.

What Peter DOES say is that they had KNOWLEDGE of Jesus, and the Gospel.

But if want to believe you can become a dog or a pig, knock yourself out.

As for me and my family, we’ll forever remain His sheep.