Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful

[onlinebuddy]

Would appreciate comments on how biblical or unbiblical this is....
Church is essential for faith; there are no 'free agents,' pope says | National Catholic Reporter
[h=1][/h]

 

[GuessWho]

I agree with him.

There is a difference between church and religion. Not only there is a difference but the two are antagonist: you are either christian, either religious.

Christianity is ekklesia, church, community of people that gather in love and are unified in this love by the Holy Spirit. Religion is about an individual's morality or spiritual accomplishment. With the church is different: we all hope and believe to be saved: the whole church, not just me, but my parents, my husband, my friends too.

The church is the icon of God. God is not three individuals like Appolo, Zeus and Jupiter. Our God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When you say "father", you imply a relation: you are father to someone, to a son. The same goes with humans. The first man was created by God but the descendants were not "made in laboratory" (to quote the article) but are sons of this man.

So, christianity wants to re-make the true nature of people: we are all brothers and sisters!

The truth of the christian church is its unity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with him in this aspect. We are even told not to forsake the assembling together of ourselves in a group as is the manner of some.

Church is a community, We are not created to be alone, We are relational creatures.

 

[PennEd]

I agree with him in this aspect. We are even told not to forsake the assembling together of ourselves in a group as is the manner of some.

Church is a community, We are not created to be alone, We are relational creatures.

While it's true what you say, and we need to be part of JESUS" Church the pope's motive, and almost threat, is more like "I AM the head of the church, don't go thinking you can read your Bible and apply it in a way different than what I SAY you should". It's another catholic power grab.

 

[Mitspa]

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Blain]

I have some concerns about what he said. Firstly he seems to not understand what the church is, it's clear he talking about the building church not specifically the body church even though he attempts to throw that in. Second he clearly said that it is a temptation and wrong to believe one can have a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus.
Third about isolation, he doesn't understand what he is saying. Firstly having a deep and personal relationship with Jesus doesn't require one to be isolated from church or from fellow believers as he is trying to say second sometimes it's that isolation where it's simply just you and God that are the most precious and important times.

Me for instance, when I became a Christian I did so alone no one helped me to come to Christ no one was even there to help me. I was isolated from the world to begin with I was unable to go anywhere or do anything I was literally trapped in my house 24/7. Although I had every lazy persons dream being able to have food water internet and free time out the wazoo all for free it wasn't the life I was after but at the time there was nothing I could do about. I had no one to teach me how to be a Christian what meant to be a Christian no one to even help guide me all I had was the bible and God himself.

I said to myself if I have no one to teach me then I will go to the greatest teacher of them all-Jesus Christ. and so for over three months in isolation I spent all my time with God and believe me I had time to spare but I chose to use it to be with him to learn from him and of him. I grew very quickly in those three months he made himself known to me and revealed many amazing things showed me wonders beyond my wildest dreams and taught me what what it truly meant to be a Christian and what is most important as a Christan and that is love. he taught me that love is the foundation of every believers faith and of their relationship with God.

Honestly were it not for this time of isolation with him my faith and my relationship with him would be very different

 

[Willie-T]

While it's true what you say, and we need to be part of JESUS" Church the pope's motive, and almost threat, is more like "I AM the head of the church, don't go thinking you can read your Bible and apply it in a way different than what I SAY you should". It's another catholic power grab.

I think this speaks more truth than anything I've read here, yet.

 

[Yet]

Why even dignify a heathens comment with a response? He's made his choice. He thinks he is God and his followers follow blindly.
Kinda like the Christians following Apollos and Paul! Instead of Christ!

 

[notuptome]

Just who is threatened by someone having a personal relationship with Christ?

I can imagine no more personal relationship than the relationship between Savior and the soul once lost now redeemed.

Men are not saved through corporate enterprise but by a one to one, face to face meeting with Christ and the foot of His cross. Look upon His nail torn hands, His feet and His spear pierced side. View the thorn crowned brow and then tell me how dangerous it is to know Christ and for Him to know me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-us-2]

Would appreciate comments on how biblical or unbiblical this is....
Church is essential for faith; there are no 'free agents,' pope says | National Catholic Reporter

Totally absurd. But then his recent comments where atheists will go to heaven if they are basically 'good' people and pets can go to heaven too, should have warned us to not be surprised at anything he says.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

Catholicism is a long way removed from Christianity, therefore we should take anything the pope says with a pinch of salt. Not to be taken seriously.

 

[onlinebuddy]

The are the exact words of the Pope (sorry, I should have included this in my initial post):

“There is no “do-it-yourself” in the church, no “freelancers.” How many times did we hear Pope Benedict Describe the church as a “we” church? Sometime you may hear someone say, “I believe in God, In Jesus, but the church… I don’t care.” How many times have we heard this? This is wrong. There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church. These temptations are dangerous and harmful. They are, in the words of the great Pope Paul VI, “absurd dichotomies.” It’s true that journeying together is challenging, and sometimes it can be tiring: it may be that some brother or sister (in the church) makes us face a problem, or scandalizes us. But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to humans, all of us, as witnesses; and in our brothers and sisters, with their gifts and limits, who come to us and make themselves known. This means belonging to the church…”

Now, I have a problem understanding these lines:

There are those who believe you can have a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and mediation of the church. These temptations are dangerous and harmful. ”

What does he mean by communion and mediation of the church?
When did Jesus give the church (his body, believers) the power to mediate?
When he said the words "mediation of the church," I think the Pope meant: mediation by the Catholic Priest
So, the Pope was implying that the power of mediation lies with the Catholic priest, and that one can have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ only through a Catholic priest.
Connecting directly to Jesus (and not through a priest) is termed as "do-it-yourself" and " "freelancing"!
He is saying that it is "dangerous" and "harmful" to try to have a relationship with Jesus Christ if not done through a Catholic Priest.
According to me this is an Old Covenant concept. A Christian is under the new covenant, where the only "High Priest" is Jesus! Amen!

 

[Angela53510]

There is a sense in which community for the believer is essential. So although we are individually saved by grace, part of that means we move into relationships with other Christians, and then with non-believers to share the gospel.

But the Pope is talking about the RCC alone. He is talking about the RCC 7 sacraments, without which you are not saved. He is talking about the church "mediating" our relationship with Christ, which is totally unbiblical.

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Tim. 2:5

And yes, this is about a power grab, and a hierarchical organization controlling our salvation. Also totally unbiblical. Show me in the Bible where it says we need to be a member of the RCC, and I will join! But since I know that is a total lie, I guess I will continue to walk with Jesus, and follow his Word.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I agree with him.

There is a difference between church and religion. Not only there is a difference but the two are antagonist: you are either christian, either religious.

Christianity is ekklesia, church, community of people that gather in love and are unified in this love by the Holy Spirit. Religion is about an individual's morality or spiritual accomplishment. With the church is different: we all hope and believe to be saved: the whole church, not just me, but my parents, my husband, my friends too.

The church is the icon of God. God is not three individuals like Appolo, Zeus and Jupiter. Our God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When you say "father", you imply a relation: you are father to someone, to a son. The same goes with humans. The first man was created by God but the descendants were not "made in laboratory" (to quote the article) but are sons of this man.

So, christianity wants to re-make the true nature of people: we are all brothers and sisters!

The truth of the christian church is its unity.

I agree with him in this aspect. We are even told not to forsake the assembling together of ourselves in a group as is the manner of some.

Church is a community, We are not created to be alone, We are relational creatures.

I appreciate your comments, and I understand the purpose and benefits of meeting with the church. I also understand the fact that it may be dangerous to go solo. However, this does not seem to be the message the Pope is giving. His pivotal point is that one cannot have a relationship with Christ without the "mediation of the Church." Now the purpose of the Church is not mediation, is it? There is some kind of erroneous and fallible thinking there!

 

[Yet]

Totally absurd. But then his recent comments where atheists will go to heaven if they are basically 'good' people and pets can go to heaven too, should have warned us to not be surprised at anything he says.

Tim Lafayette said the pope will make heaven and mother Teresa is already there. Now before you begin the beat the tar out of me, Teresa would tell the folks in India to call upon their own gods.

Billy Graham believes that Muslims, hindoos, Buddhists, all have Christ in them. Please do your own research.

 

[tourist]

Tim Lafayette said the pope will make heaven and mother Teresa is already there. Now before you begin the beat the tar out of me, Teresa would tell the folks in India to call upon their own gods.

Billy Graham believes that Muslims, hindoos, Buddhists, all have Christ in them. Please do your own research.

Jesus did say while talking to a small group that there were others that were not of this fold and that he must gather them in also. Under your criteria who would qualify to enter into heaven?

 

[KennethC]

It is true that we are not to forsake the assembling together as the body needs to be used for edification of one another, and that nobody should be off by themselves doing whatever.

We must remember that Jesus where 2 or 3 are gathered together I am among them, not where just 1 person doing their own thing is.

However with that being said the concept of a personal relationship with the Lord our God is not dangerous or harmful as that is exactly what we are called to have with Him. They just don't want people to actually seek the answers for themselves and see the falsehoods they teach.

The Church is not the RCC it is the body of believers in Christ !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I think they cannot even get the name right.....much less doctrine!

Catholic=Universal

Church-->Ekklesia=Local visible assembly

and sorry...the Catholic Church does not represent the church Jesus started nor does it set the standard for biblical Christianity!

 

[mpaper345]

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him(John 14:23).

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you(John 14:16-18).

I believe we can have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Although the saints should come together to worship God,and fellowship,and are part of the body of Christ,I believe that each saint has a personal relationship with Jesus,because although Jesus deals with the body of Christ as a whole,He would still deal with an individual,in love,their different problems,that would only deal with that individual,and not the whole body of Christ.We still have to love Jesus on a one on one basis,as well as love Him as the whole body of Christ.

 

[GuessWho]

I appreciate your comments, and I understand the purpose and benefits of meeting with the church. I also understand the fact that it may be dangerous to go solo. However, this does not seem to be the message the Pope is giving. His pivotal point is that one cannot have a relationship with Christ without the "mediation of the Church." Now the purpose of the Church is not mediation, is it? There is some kind of erroneous and fallible thinking there!

I'm afraid you don't actually understand the purpose of the Church. You seem to be more focused on the one who delivers the message (the Pope) rather on what he is saying. For me, it wouldn't make no difference if it was the Pope that said it, an orthodox patriarch, a protestant pastor or ...an user from CC.

The truth and reality of the Church is linked to the Incarnation of the Word.

The Incarnation of the Word doesn't represent for the Church a supernatural, abstract event that happened in history, an event about which you talk, you sing, you preach, but that hasn't any serious implication on the human life. NO!

Through the incarnation, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been offered life. And this life is being realized through the unity of the Church (the Body of Christ).

We have become brothers of Jesus Christ and we perfect ourselves in His Body; we united with Him just as the body is united with the head (read my signature).

Jesus Christ unites in His person the divine nature and the human nature; so, this means that God and humanity share in Jesus Christ a common way of existence; and this way of existence is unity, communion of love between persons and God ("I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one. I in them and you in me - so that they may be brought to complete unity.")

This unity and communion of love to which we are called is the way of existence of the Holy Trinity (see may signature, again).

I am not sure if I brought more light or more obscurity to my previous comment about the reality of the Church.

The thing is, the Pope was right. You may argue that the catholic church is not the church and so on. That's another thing. Also, I am sure that the Pope spoke for catholics who prefer to "live" their faith isolated from the community, and not for protestants.