Popeless Catholics

[JIMBO43]

I grew up a Roman Catholic.
It was many years later before I ever entered churches other than Baptist.
Besides, the eastern Orthodox, who claim they are catholics, we have what was called mainstream protestants from Europe.
Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians.
I've been in each of these churches and they seem so much like a Roman Catholic church.
The old churches, the bells, the candles, and other rituals, I wonder, are they still catholics?
Are they simply popeless catholics?
I've heard people say, "no, they've changed".
Have those people ever been in a Roman catholic church to be qualified to say they've changed?
Are they all ecumenical churches?
How does all this play out in the end times?
Who has the answers?
Who are the experts here?
I'd like to know.

The simple reason is the keys to kingdom are claimed to be that of the popes is the main reason cathlic sects differenceiate. The roman catholics saw peter as the first pope alltho peter never held the title pope.

There was a great divide amonst the catholics during the times of constantine. Constantine handed over all the wealth of all the parts of rome he had. and declared the roman catholic church to be the main power and ruler of his wealth of all the states that he had.

Only some states of rome where not under the rule of constantine hence the great divide.

The states that the roman catholic empire could not control or have temporal power over (political power) formed there own sects that where not ruled by a pope.

This is the only difference my friend nothing more nothing less.

 

[Willie-T]

It ain't enough!

Doctrinal beliefs don't say it all.
I know fer sher.

Fran

Can you elaborate some on that? I can easily see that individual congregations would be different within any given denomination, but does that change the basics?

 

[FranC]

I'm pretty sure the majority of Catholic Doctrine is grossly Unbiblical

All Catholic doctrine is based on the bible.
Pick a topic...

Fran

 

[DustyRhodes]

I grew up a Roman Catholic.
It was many years later before I ever entered churches other than Baptist.
Besides, the eastern Orthodox, who claim they are catholics, we have what was called mainstream protestants from Europe.
Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians.
I've been in each of these churches and they seem so much like a Roman Catholic church.
The old churches, the bells, the candles, and other rituals, I wonder, are they still catholics?
Are they simply popeless catholics?
I've heard people say, "no, they've changed".
Have those people ever been in a Roman catholic church to be qualified to say they've changed?
Are they all ecumenical churches?
How does all this play out in the end times?
Who has the answers?
Who are the experts here?
I'd like to know.

Hi Allen. My position on this is that no denomination is perfect. The worst thing of it is that one calls out another for being wrong. To begin with every denomination sets out to brainwash and the younger they can get them, the better since they are malleable. And they are taught in that denomination that whatever is said there is the final authority on all Christian things. Therefore they get dug in. I'm 71 and the first half of my life I attended no church but i knew about God and Jesus and didn't deny their existence but at the same time, didn't accept them in my heart. i was reading the Bible and felt i was missing a key. There were things there that I couldn't fathom, things I felt I needed help with. So I went around to a few different churches to help in my enlightenment. With the singing and sermons, I felt as empty when I walked out as I was when I walked in. Finally a person I worked with suggested I come with him as he was attending a Catholic church. There was so much going on there in comparison to others I went to, I felt overwhelmed. But when I walked out but at the same time something touched me. I went a couple of times more and a priest said he was starting a Bible study in a couple of weeks. I pounced on that and started going and continued to go and continued to attend church. That was a great beginning as the key to scripture understanding unlocked the lack of understanding that I needed. So now 35 years later I have come to grasp God's message in a very personal way. At this point, I still attend the Catholic church but mostly for fellowship. There are many things that we do there that i don't agree with and don't follow. I am not a good Catholic at this point cuz I internalise God's message directly from God. I see no point in carrying on with the entire ritual that is designed to get me to where I already am. But as an old chestnut goes, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I attend but I refuse to be brainwashed by ritual. God is my shepherd and the church was my agent or conveyor. I am grateful to that. My final opinion...don't allow any person to persuade you to accept only one certain method of spirituality. Church is one hour a week, the rest of our life in quest of God is up to us.

 

[Magenta]

All Catholic doctrine is based on the bible.
Pick a topic...

Fran

The immaculate conception and the bodily assumption of Mary are both beliefs mandated by papal decree and yet there is no basis for either in Scripture. Perpetual virginity also goes against what Scripture says. Roman Catholics pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf while Jesus told us to pray to the Father, and Scripture attests that there is one mediator between God and man.

 

[FranC]

Hi Franc,

I agree there is a great deal of nonsense on the internet regarding religion and faith. I have to disagree with you tenet. In fact there is a great deal of excellent resources for the Christian believer online. If you want to believe what any denomination or Independent church believes, just got to their website and read their statement of belief, you can check it against scripture yourself. Going to the sources will tell you what is the official belief of each denomination.

Since you say you know RC theology, I am sure you have read the articles from the council of Trent, Vatican I and Vatican II? And what protestant theology have you studied? Sources would be good then we could all check for factuality.

Theres nothing wrong with opinions as long as they are based on truth! And yes I would agree not every system of theology is perfect.

I am in one of the denominations above, and I find AllenW's subjective opinion not factual. Just for instance, what do you thing John Knox would say about Allens post? (thats a hint)

Well Phil,
I'm not here to be an intellectual.
If you tell me who John Knox is, I'll tell you what I think of him.

I know Catholic doctrine because I taught it.
I studied all three of the Councils you mentioned, but am sure I've forgotten a lot.
Anyway, those are not used anymore to teach Catholic doctrine. What IS used is the
Catechism of the Catholic Church.

You want to know something, you go there. Now I don't particularly care for it since it
Leaves questions to be answered unless you already know a lot of stuff before going to the CCC.

As far as the internet, YOU may be able to use it because you could filter out what's right and what isn't.
I'd hate to send a new Christian there!
You could read some pretty weird stuff!

Fran

 

[dcontroversal]

All Catholic doctrine is based on the bible.
Pick a topic...

Fran

She has jokes.......hilarious.......this has got to be the biggest farce to make CC in some time............

ok....Show one place in the N.T. where a baby was IMMERSED

As a matter of fact show ONE place where BAPTISM (immersion) is equated to sprinkling

Then show scriptures in context that

1. Allow a person to buy the right to sin with money given to a priest
2. Church salvation
3. Using the rosary
4. Sacramental salvation
5. Purgatory
6. More than 1 (ONE) mediator other than JESUS
7. A priest or POPE equal with GOD
8. The POPE as sinless

Your statement falls way short of biblical........and actually quite to the contrary...MOST doctrines found in the RCC have no basis in the word of God!

 

[FranC]

phil36...it seems you want the truth. Here it is...Get the book "The Woman Rides the Beast" by David Hunt.


The book itself goes through the history of the Church of Jesus Christ turning into the RCC. It then takes you through the centuries RCC history, backed up by historical writings.

I will tell you this book among others will leave you with the understanding and little doubt that the RCC will be the one world religion the Bible speaks of. Thus it will be the "Whore that Rides the Beast".

You think the RCC will be the one world religion?

That's pretty funny.
Many catholics are very disturbed because the Catholic Church is becoming more protestant every day!

NOW, If you tell me the Pope might become the head of all Christianity, that's a different story.
Although, with the way men seek power,and are reluctant to relinquish it, I doubt that could happen too.

Fran

 

[88]

The immaculate conception and the bodily assumption of Mary are both beliefs mandated by papal decree and yet there is no basis for either in Scripture. Perpetual virginity also goes against what Scripture says. Roman Catholics pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf while Jesus told us to pray to the Father, and Scripture attests that there is one mediator between God and man.

**** the Pope is considered infallible when making a papal decree---- this is wrong and a form of adding to God' s Word...

 

[Utah]

Huh?

You mean if someone asked me what Protestantism is, I wouldn't be able to give an objective statement?
Or Catholicism, for that matter.

If everything we say is subjective, then it's not Worth anything!

Fran

Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.

 

[dcontroversal]

The immaculate conception and the bodily assumption of Mary are both beliefs mandated by papal decree and yet there is no basis for either in Scripture. Perpetual virginity also goes against what Scripture says. Roman Catholics pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf while Jesus told us to pray to the Father, and Scripture attests that there is one mediator between God and man.

Even though Magenta's rep power is off da charts....I tried to rep this post but need to spread a bit before I can....somebody do it for me!

 

[FranC]

Hi Bladerunner,

I have read what the church of Rome's official teaching is. I went to the source: Council of Trent, Vatican 1; Vatican II. I have also read pre-reformation history.

I have never said that I agree with their theology, if that's what you think!

Dave Hunt Holds the view that Revelation 17 refers to the RC commune, however, many don't.

Hi Phil,

It's me again.

FORGET Trent.
FORGET Vatican I

Go to Vatican II------OK
Go to the CCC, depend on THAT.

Fran

 

[88]

She has jokes.......hilarious.......this has got to be the biggest farce to make CC in some time............

ok....Show one place in the N.T. where a baby was IMMERSED

As a matter of fact show ONE place where BAPTISM (immersion) is equated to sprinkling

Then show scriptures in context that

1. Allow a person to buy the right to sin with money given to a priest
2. Church salvation
3. Using the rosary
4. Sacramental salvation
5. Purgatory
6. More than 1 (ONE) mediator other than JESUS
7. A priest or POPE equal with GOD
8. The POPE as sinless

Your statement falls way short of biblical........and actually quite to the contrary...MOST doctrines found in the RCC have no basis in the word of God!

**** Catholics have noncannonical books in their Bible called the Apocrypha...

 

[Willie-T]

**** Catholics have noncannonical books in their Bible called the Apocrypha...

While I am not for Catholic Doctrine at all, I also have to admit that I can't remember any part of the Bible dealing with any cannonical selection process of specific books.

 

[88]

Hi Phil,

It's me again.

FORGET Trent.
FORGET Vatican I

Go to Vatican II------OK
Go to the CCC, depend on THAT.

Fran

**** no offense --- but are you a Catholic who has found salvation ( Born Again)---- I was raised Catholic--- my dad had a scholarship to play football for Notre Dame---- I found Christ outside the Catholic Church---- what's you testimony?

 

[jerry2465]

Well, for starters, practically no one has even addressed anything about the 4 protestant churches I mentioned.
They all more or less came out of the RCC,
my experience is their church services are almost the same as the RCC, and besides the pope, is there really a difference between them today?
Are they not all ecumenical churches?
No one touched on this either.
But it seems what has happened is that some people have attacked me personally.
And that tells me I've struck a cord of discord with these people, though they have chosen not to say what that is.

AllenW I hope you don't feel as if i have attacked you. I don't think that I have. I guess I have not answered all of your post completely or even mostly, but I don't consider myself an expert in Catholic church history. I study the bible more than church organizations, so I figured that I would leave all the catholic history to someone else. My point of view was to drop all of the teachings of Catholics and other denominations that teach contrary to scripture.

 

[AllenW]

Even though Magenta's rep power is off da charts....I tried to rep this post but need to spread a bit before I can....somebody do it for me!

I already did.

 

[phil36]

Huh?

You mean if someone asked me what Protestantism is, I wouldn't be able to give an objective statement?
Or Catholicism, for that matter.

If everything we say is subjective, then it's not Worth anything!

Fran

Hi Fran,

You are mischaracterizing what I wrote. There is a difference between 'objective' and 'subjective'. Where did I say you could not give an objective answer in my post to AllenW (which you have used)? I

 

[AllenW]

AllenW I hope you don't feel as if i have attacked you. I don't think that I have. I guess I have not answered all of your post completely or even mostly, but I don't consider myself an expert in Catholic church history. I study the bible more than church organizations, so I figured that I would leave all the catholic history to someone else. My point of view was to drop all of the teachings of Catholics and other denominations that teach contrary to scripture.

No Jerry not you.
Here's a point.
Who so far has mentioned the Episcopal church?
I asked about it in the OP?
Does nobody know anything about it?
Or do those that know about it think their views on the RCC is more important to talk about?
If that's the case, you should start your own thread.
As episcopalians go, what can we say of them in comparison to the RCC.

This would be a legitimate post concerning the OP as far as I can see.

 

[dcontroversal]

**** Catholics have noncannonical books in their Bible called the Apocrypha...

Regardless....if it does not jive with the rest it can be chunked as the teaching of a man and not of God....God's word does not contradict itself ever...

The Bible said there is 1 (one) mediator between God and MEN <---That being JESUS

Jesus is 1

Jesus plus MARY = 2
Jesus plus the POPE = 2
Jesus plus anything = more than 1

end of story!