Post Trib Rapture?
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It's the time of Jacob's trouble, the nation of Israel. There are no Jews or Gentiles in the body of Christ for we are all one.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
After the gathering, Israel will be God's focus. The deliverer will come out of Zion and fulfill his covenant with them, Israel.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
After the gathering, Israel will be God's focus. The deliverer will come out of Zion and fulfill his covenant with them, Israel.
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What you’re describing is called amillenialism and it has a figurative or spiritual kind of MK. Most post-tribbers are probably historic premillennialists.
I honestly don’t see what the fascination with it is. At first I was kinda hyped up about it, years ago, but now I don’t see it as extremely important.
I am concerned about people who are obsessed with it too much though.
I honestly don’t see what the fascination with it is. At first I was kinda hyped up about it, years ago, but now I don’t see it as extremely important.
I am concerned about people who are obsessed with it too much though.
We all ascend into the clouds to meet Jesus - but, we do not immediately go with Him down to the earth - some 'stuff' has to happen first, including the Wrath of God being meted out on the world. After Jesus is through doing all He that has to do "from the air" - then - we all go with Him down to the earth.
The first resurrection actually occurs in three PHASES, corresponding to the phases of a Hebrew harvest.
PHASE I -- THE FIRST FRUITS -- CHRIST
PHASE II -- THE MAIN HARVEST -- THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE
PHASE III -- THE GLEANINGS -- THE TRIBULATION SAINTS
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all [believers] be made alive. But every man in his own order: [1] Christ the firstfruits; afterward [2] they that are Christ's at his coming [at the Resurrection/Rapture]. [3]Then cometh the end , when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet (1 Cor 15:22-25)
PHASE I -- THE FIRST FRUITS -- CHRIST
PHASE II -- THE MAIN HARVEST -- THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE
PHASE III -- THE GLEANINGS -- THE TRIBULATION SAINTS
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all [believers] be made alive. But every man in his own order: [1] Christ the firstfruits; afterward [2] they that are Christ's at his coming [at the Resurrection/Rapture]. [3]Then cometh the end , when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet (1 Cor 15:22-25)
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You implied "all" when you used the words 'Post Tribers' without any other words like 'many', 'most', 'some', etc. to exclude those who do actually believe there will be a 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth. (Which, as far as I can tell, is most pre-trib folks. In my experience, it has been extremely rare to come across a post-trib-but-no-millenium view.)
Normally it just means that someone believes that there will be a period known as the great tribulation. After that period, Jesus returns to gather his elect. Hence the term post tribulation.
There’s also pre-trib, mid-trib, no-trib, preterism, dual-trib, etc. As many options that can be imagined, that’s basically what Christianity has become. People just go with whatever they like nowadays.
There’s also pre-trib, mid-trib, no-trib, preterism, dual-trib, etc. As many options that can be imagined, that’s basically what Christianity has become. People just go with whatever they like nowadays.
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After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Does "And so we will always be with the Lord," mean we will always be in the air with the Lord?
Diagraming sentences helps me understand better what is being said.
I don't remember if I recieved straight A's in diagraming but, roughly diagraming, 1Thess4:17, I see the subject here is "we who are alive and remain, the verb phrase is "will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet." Who? The Lord is the object of the verb "meet." Now, looking at the phrase, "in the air," does that describe the meeting or is it indicative of Him which we are meeting?
The Englishman's Concordance of "in the air" explains the Greek for it as N-AMS which is Noun-Accusative Masculine Singular, and "we together with them" is definitely not singular. Grammar monster also explains, "when studying other languages, you might also encounter prepositions that take the accusative case." And since "in the air" is a prepositional phrase, this must be the case here. A preposition is a word that shows the relationship between two nearby words. For example:
Her party was on Saturday.
The preposition on shows the relationship between her party and Saturday.
So likewise, here, "in" shows the relationship between the Lord and the air.
It seems to me a very high probability that there is an intentional distinction between "we that are alive and remain" and "them in the clouds" for the reason of expressing preciseness that distinguishes them in the earth and them that the Lord brings with Him. This does not necessarily mean that we will all be "in the clouds," as so many have, erroneously imo, assumed.
Does "And so we will always be with the Lord," mean we will always be in the air with the Lord?
Diagraming sentences helps me understand better what is being said.
I don't remember if I recieved straight A's in diagraming but, roughly diagraming, 1Thess4:17, I see the subject here is "we who are alive and remain, the verb phrase is "will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet." Who? The Lord is the object of the verb "meet." Now, looking at the phrase, "in the air," does that describe the meeting or is it indicative of Him which we are meeting?
The Englishman's Concordance of "in the air" explains the Greek for it as N-AMS which is Noun-Accusative Masculine Singular, and "we together with them" is definitely not singular. Grammar monster also explains, "when studying other languages, you might also encounter prepositions that take the accusative case." And since "in the air" is a prepositional phrase, this must be the case here. A preposition is a word that shows the relationship between two nearby words. For example:
Her party was on Saturday.
The preposition on shows the relationship between her party and Saturday.
So likewise, here, "in" shows the relationship between the Lord and the air.
It seems to me a very high probability that there is an intentional distinction between "we that are alive and remain" and "them in the clouds" for the reason of expressing preciseness that distinguishes them in the earth and them that the Lord brings with Him. This does not necessarily mean that we will all be "in the clouds," as so many have, erroneously imo, assumed.
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Ok, i'll explain it. The reason why the resurrection is post-tribulation is because the coming of Jesus is post-tribulation. Very simple. And when does the resurrection/rapture occur according to the Bible? AT THE COMING OF THE LORD, which would be post-tribulational, how do we know? Because:
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Here we have Jesus returning, His own getting rest and the wicked getting vengeance, and notice this is definately the second coming as it says He returns in flaming fire taking vengeance, this can also be proven by showing that Jesus destroys the man of sin at His coming, proving the coming is post-tribulational:
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Now I realize pre-tribbers would like to say that this coming in 1 Thessalonians is a complete separate coming, but who on earth reading these letters in the first century would fathom such an idea? There is no need to complicate the Bible by inserting a THIRD coming.
As to your question on WHY we ascend into the clouds to meet Jesus only to return to earth after, is simple, its because we go and meet the coming King, and we then escort Him back to the earth. It sure does make sense, it was an ancient custom after all for the people to go out and meet the coming king!
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Here we have Jesus returning, His own getting rest and the wicked getting vengeance, and notice this is definately the second coming as it says He returns in flaming fire taking vengeance, this can also be proven by showing that Jesus destroys the man of sin at His coming, proving the coming is post-tribulational:
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Now I realize pre-tribbers would like to say that this coming in 1 Thessalonians is a complete separate coming, but who on earth reading these letters in the first century would fathom such an idea? There is no need to complicate the Bible by inserting a THIRD coming.
As to your question on WHY we ascend into the clouds to meet Jesus only to return to earth after, is simple, its because we go and meet the coming King, and we then escort Him back to the earth. It sure does make sense, it was an ancient custom after all for the people to go out and meet the coming king!
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