Here, Paul is talking to the Thessalonian saints about Christians who are asleep or have died in Christ, and how they ought not to feel sorrow for them as with others who have no hope after death apart from Christ. He then goes on to explain how that Jesus will bring with him those who are asleep in him at the coming of the Lord.
We know this because 1Th4:14 says, "shall God bring [G71, lead] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him/Jesus"... and that "UNIONed-with" Him thing requires their already-resurrected BODIES [glorified bodies]"... which is what the "SO [/IN THIS MANNER] SHALL we ever be with [UNIONed-with] the Lord" is talking about (that is, by means of "our Rapture / caught up / SNATCH" will we be with Him)
Well, where is Jesus coming from?
... I believe the preceding context tells us: "BEFORE [in the face of G1715] the God and Father of us" ("in the presence / parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ" with all His saints)
He's coming from the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2) where he presently dwells, and the dead in Christ presently dwell there too because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).
When Jesus and the dead in Christ come and descend from the third heaven,
the Christians who yet are alive and remain on this earth will not prevent or precede those who are asleep, or they will not get their resurrected and glorified bodies ahead of those who Christ is coming and descending with from the third heaven.
And interesting that this same word "prevent / precede [G5348]" (in 1Th4:15) is also used in the Daniel 7:13 [LXX] passage I had pointed out in a different thread, showing how the "Son of man" by means of "the clouds of the heavens" will be "brought [Him / Jesus] near before Him [/God]"... that is, UP THERE.
Not only this, but the Christians who are yet alive and who yet remain on the earth at that time will meet both the Lord and the dead in Christ in the clouds, which are a part of this earth's atmosphere, or in the air, which is part of this earth's atmosphere, or which are part of what we might rightly call the first heaven (Genesis 1:20). I mean, if there's a third heaven, then logic dictates that there must also be a first and second heaven, and the first heaven is where the clouds exist.
The question is, where do we go once we are "caught up" TO the MEETING OF THE LORD "in the air"?
You say (as many do) "right back down"...
... whereas, I (taking my clues from the text, its precise wording, and previous/wider context) say "UP" to the third Heaven, "BEFORE [in the face of G1715]" the God and Father of us" per 1Th3:13 (and as evidenced by the "24 elders" [wearing "stephanous / crowns"(!!)] saying" hast redeemed US TO GOD by Thy blood OUT-OF EVERY..." before Jesus will be opening the FIRST SEAL at the START of the "7-yr period" commonly called the Tribulation Period).
With these things in mind, how in the world do you see this as some sort of rapture to the third heaven?
One just must pay careful attention to the actual words used, and to the broader context (not relying merely on the few verses in chpt 4 to try to come to its meaning), and recognizing that the "shall God BRING [/LEAD] WITH [UNIONed-WITH, G4862] Him" cannot occur WITHOUT their resurrected/glorified BODIES (so cannot be referring to Him bringing them [body-less, in their spirits/souls] from Heaven when He DESCENDS for the meeting "in the air". NO.)
- 1
- Show all