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F
Jes Himseld reveals the events that will take place in Matthew 24. It's pretty self explainatory with no need to attempt to explain highly debated symbolism.
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
P
It’s not me that’s added words to this book but YOU…
For you have added a resurrection or rapture before the great tribulation which does not exist.
Nowhere in the Bible does a resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation.
It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors, designed by the devil to keep God’s children unprepared.
You have also taken PLEASURE in that strong delusion which is a sin
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
You have also been listening and believing the false prophets, which also is a sin. Saul was rebuked by the Lord for listening to false prophets, and Elijah rebuked the King for listing to false prophets -
false prophets that preach a resurrection or rapture before the great tribulation. It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors, and it’s not in the Bible anywhere
love from peter
F
Here's the thing. If Jesus return before Tribulation, I seriously doubt that you're going to hear anyone complaining. All believers up until this point will be taken up thus no believers will have to under the hardships to come thus, while those who believed in Post Trib might have been wrong but there's no harm no foul because no one unkowingly suffers.
HOWEVER, If post trib is right, can you imagine the number of people who will fall away when they find themselves facing events and trials that they were taught they would never see? How many do you think will take the Mark thus damning their souls because they either felt they had missed the rapture thus were damned anyhow or because they were not ready mentally, emotionally or financially to deal with the crisis.
S here's thing, we really won't know until the evemts occur. However, if you believe in Pre-Trib that's fine but you need to be aware as well as make others aware of the Post Trib perspective so if people do indeed find themselves in the middle of such events, they will know how to handle themselves. It's the responsible thing to do.
HOWEVER, If post trib is right, can you imagine the number of people who will fall away when they find themselves facing events and trials that they were taught they would never see? How many do you think will take the Mark thus damning their souls because they either felt they had missed the rapture thus were damned anyhow or because they were not ready mentally, emotionally or financially to deal with the crisis.
S here's thing, we really won't know until the evemts occur. However, if you believe in Pre-Trib that's fine but you need to be aware as well as make others aware of the Post Trib perspective so if people do indeed find themselves in the middle of such events, they will know how to handle themselves. It's the responsible thing to do.
F
The pre trib view was originally concocted by Once Saved Always Saved Baptists in the 1700's. It was then embraced by a Calvinist named Darby who perfected the theory and it was later includeed / published in a very popular bible in the 1800's called the Scoefield bible. This bible was pulblished with alot of commentary in an attempt to explain certain views that people held at the time which did not line up with end time prophecy.
For example, if a person who believed in Once Saved Always Saved or the Preserverance of the Saints were to take the Mark of the beast, they'd go hell to despite their beliefs. Not wanting to give up their beliefs, they came up with a way to twist scripture so that they would not have to face the Mark.
While the Apostles as well as the pre Catholic church taught thay the Lord could come at any time, none of them taught a pre-trib view. Why? Because up until Catholicism was accepted the church were going through great trails and persecutions on a daily basis. Christians were martyred all the time thus they most likely believed they were living through tribulation at that moment in time.
For example, if a person who believed in Once Saved Always Saved or the Preserverance of the Saints were to take the Mark of the beast, they'd go hell to despite their beliefs. Not wanting to give up their beliefs, they came up with a way to twist scripture so that they would not have to face the Mark.
While the Apostles as well as the pre Catholic church taught thay the Lord could come at any time, none of them taught a pre-trib view. Why? Because up until Catholicism was accepted the church were going through great trails and persecutions on a daily basis. Christians were martyred all the time thus they most likely believed they were living through tribulation at that moment in time.
E
if I do not want to believe something, I will not see it, even if it stares me in the face.
to say there is no evidence which supports a pre-trib "taking up" is just wrong. there is more than ample evidence which could lead anyone to this view. it is not saying it is the correct view. but to say there is no evidence at all is incorrect.
to say there is no evidence which supports a pre-trib "taking up" is just wrong. there is more than ample evidence which could lead anyone to this view. it is not saying it is the correct view. but to say there is no evidence at all is incorrect.
P
show me a pre-tribulatiom Rapture in the Bible ???
Nowhere in the Bible does a resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation.
It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors
show me a pre-tribulatiom or mid-tribulation Rapturein before the great tribulation in the Bible ???
its not in the Bible
Nowhere in the Bible does a resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation.
It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors
show me a pre-tribulatiom or mid-tribulation Rapturein before the great tribulation in the Bible ???
its not in the Bible
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E
Why did God say we would NOT be there to suffer Gods wrath when it comes upon the earth?
WHy did God say the ressurection would come as a thief (no signs whatsoever) yet his actual return would be known by many signs. This is a contradiction in and of itself.
You can't say when you see these things comming you can know his return is near. Then say his return to take us would happen as a thief in the night. A thief gives no sign of his pending intrusion, or else the owner might be waiting. How can you get by this seeming contradiction if both happensngs are the same?
There are many more examples which tend to support a resurection apart from Christs literal return to earth at the end of tribulation.
WHy did God say the ressurection would come as a thief (no signs whatsoever) yet his actual return would be known by many signs. This is a contradiction in and of itself.
You can't say when you see these things comming you can know his return is near. Then say his return to take us would happen as a thief in the night. A thief gives no sign of his pending intrusion, or else the owner might be waiting. How can you get by this seeming contradiction if both happensngs are the same?
There are many more examples which tend to support a resurection apart from Christs literal return to earth at the end of tribulation.
P
1 Thessalonians 5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
THE WRATH IS POURD OUT ON THE WICKED. So God hath not appointed us to wrath
Revelation16 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
Nothing about a Rapture or a resurrection in those Bible verses
Nothing about rapture before the great tribulation in those Bible verses
Nothing about the last trumpet in those Bible verses
Nothing about the voice of the archangel in those Bible verses
Nothing about Jesus comes in the clouds in those Bible verses
Nothing about the raising of the dead first in those Bible verses
Sorry no resurrection or rapture before the great tribulation here
It’s not in the bible
Try again
1 Thessalonians4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
THE WRATH IS POURD OUT ON THE WICKED. So God hath not appointed us to wrath
Revelation16 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.
Nothing about a Rapture or a resurrection in those Bible verses
Nothing about rapture before the great tribulation in those Bible verses
Nothing about the last trumpet in those Bible verses
Nothing about the voice of the archangel in those Bible verses
Nothing about Jesus comes in the clouds in those Bible verses
Nothing about the raising of the dead first in those Bible verses
Sorry no resurrection or rapture before the great tribulation here
It’s not in the bible
Try again
1 Thessalonians4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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E
Must be one of those days. You did not answer my questions either. So what is up with this?? 
As for yours. You showed Gods wrath poured out on earth, In which God said we would not partake in. If you look at the things in revelation in which God does. No person standing or alive would be able to not partake in Gods wrath.. Fire from heaven destroying one third of earth is Gods wrath. What about all the supposed christians who entered this age in which God said they would not partake in it suffer this wrath. Is God a liar?
As for yours. You showed Gods wrath poured out on earth, In which God said we would not partake in. If you look at the things in revelation in which God does. No person standing or alive would be able to not partake in Gods wrath.. Fire from heaven destroying one third of earth is Gods wrath. What about all the supposed christians who entered this age in which God said they would not partake in it suffer this wrath. Is God a liar?
P
Must be one of those days. You did not answer my questions either. So what is up with this??
As for yours. You showed Gods wrath poured out on earth, In which God said we would not partake in. If you look at the things in revelation in which God does. No person standing or alive would be able to not partake in Gods wrath.. Fire from heaven destroying one third of earth is Gods wrath. What about all the supposed christians who entered this age in which God said they would not partake in it suffer this wrath. Is God a liar?
As for yours. You showed Gods wrath poured out on earth, In which God said we would not partake in. If you look at the things in revelation in which God does. No person standing or alive would be able to not partake in Gods wrath.. Fire from heaven destroying one third of earth is Gods wrath. What about all the supposed christians who entered this age in which God said they would not partake in it suffer this wrath. Is God a liar?
Romans 2:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not OBEY the truth, but OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Nothing about a Rapture or a resurrection in those Bible verses
Nothing about rapture before the great tribulation in those Bible verses
Nothing about the last trumpet in those Bible verses
Nothing about the voice of the archangel in those Bible verses
Nothing about Jesus comes in the clouds in those Bible verses
Nothing about the raising of the dead first in those Bible verses
Nothing about meeting the Lord in the air in those Bible verses
there is NO rapture or a resurrection before the great tribulation in the Bible
try again
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H
I hope everyone of HIS sheep can say that CHRIST has revealed Himself to them through HIS SPIRIT being placed into theirs making THEM and Christ and the Father and HEAVEN ONE in Spirit with the Living Water bursting forth from within.
Heaven is within and doesn't come with observation, believe it, want it, fast, pray, forsake the world and seek this with fervent reading, fasting and wanting and HE will come if you keep it up and decide to keep it up indefinitely.
Heaven is within and doesn't come with observation, believe it, want it, fast, pray, forsake the world and seek this with fervent reading, fasting and wanting and HE will come if you keep it up and decide to keep it up indefinitely.
Hi Peter, I agree with everything you have said back and forth to Adrian. Theres just something to consider and I would like to share with you, if you dont mind.
[ The ones that do not take the mark will be reigning with Christ. During the 1000 years, Christ and his saints will reign in Jerusalem over the Israelites. The dead Israelites will be resurected into flesh and bought into the kingdom.
Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord has said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
Ezekiel 37:5 Thus says the Lord God unto these bones; behold I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel
There will also be Israelites alive at Christs coming. These will have the mark of the beast as all men will be marked (besides the elect) These will come into the kingdom. They get their second chance now to know learn the truth (Jesus)
So the kingdom on earth (1000 years) consists of
(1) Jesus our King
(2) Saints
(3) Resurected Israelites (reserved)
(4) Remaining Israelites alive at Christs coming.
But outside the kingdom, nations that survived the wrath of God (7 trumpets) will also have a chance to learn. They remain outside however, but can come in and learn (not live) to redeem themselves.
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pas in the last days, that the mountain of the Lords house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
The only ones who dont have the mark at Christs return will be the elect. And I believe this will be the 144,000 that are sealed. These ones with the seal are not to be harmed (rev 7:3, 9:4) The rest of the Christians have been executed for refusing the mark. (rev 7:14, 7:11, 15:2) These sing the song of moses (rev 15:3), the 144,000 sing a song that no one knew (rev 14:3)
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the ELECTS SAKE, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.
(Many are called but few are chosen.)
So the elect will be alive at Christs return after the wrath of God has been poured out (7 trumpets) as you stated correctly via the scriptures.
The rest of the christians are persecuted already by this stage (Christs coming)
I believe the elect will be a mixture of Jews and gentiles (spiritual jews),
If the gentiles be grafted in, and are considered adopted, then they would belong to the tribes as well.
Thankyou and God bless.
[ The ones that do not take the mark will be reigning with Christ. During the 1000 years, Christ and his saints will reign in Jerusalem over the Israelites. The dead Israelites will be resurected into flesh and bought into the kingdom.
Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord has said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
Ezekiel 37:5 Thus says the Lord God unto these bones; behold I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel
There will also be Israelites alive at Christs coming. These will have the mark of the beast as all men will be marked (besides the elect) These will come into the kingdom. They get their second chance now to know learn the truth (Jesus)
So the kingdom on earth (1000 years) consists of
(1) Jesus our King
(2) Saints
(3) Resurected Israelites (reserved)
(4) Remaining Israelites alive at Christs coming.
But outside the kingdom, nations that survived the wrath of God (7 trumpets) will also have a chance to learn. They remain outside however, but can come in and learn (not live) to redeem themselves.
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pas in the last days, that the mountain of the Lords house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
The only ones who dont have the mark at Christs return will be the elect. And I believe this will be the 144,000 that are sealed. These ones with the seal are not to be harmed (rev 7:3, 9:4) The rest of the Christians have been executed for refusing the mark. (rev 7:14, 7:11, 15:2) These sing the song of moses (rev 15:3), the 144,000 sing a song that no one knew (rev 14:3)
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the ELECTS SAKE, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.
(Many are called but few are chosen.)
So the elect will be alive at Christs return after the wrath of God has been poured out (7 trumpets) as you stated correctly via the scriptures.
The rest of the christians are persecuted already by this stage (Christs coming)
I believe the elect will be a mixture of Jews and gentiles (spiritual jews),
If the gentiles be grafted in, and are considered adopted, then they would belong to the tribes as well.
Thankyou and God bless.
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E
You did where? If I missed them could ya at least go cut and paste them?
You said I was wrong. But your not willing to show me how I was wrong in those questions? I am sure you would not like it if I did this to you!
I just looked at this thread. and not one place did I find you answering these questions.
You said I was wrong. But your not willing to show me how I was wrong in those questions? I am sure you would not like it if I did this to you!
I just looked at this thread. and not one place did I find you answering these questions.
